Goetic Mental Imagery, I had this while reading one of Imperial's accounts Options

Just thought I'd mention some mental imagery which I was getting fairly strongly while reading this evocation account in particular by Imperial Arts a few days ago. I think the reason why I mention this is because I wanted to ask if people thought this was the type of environment that possibly would have been used for evocations thousands of years ago, as I really have no idea for the most part.

He mentions elsewhere (I think in the Goetic QA thread) of having a 20 x 20 x 20 room, but for some reason the mental images I was getting when reading this particular evocation were in an environment that I think was around twice that size. I'm not claiming these were of his room...just pictures of another room that came up.

On reading the spirit's description, for some reason I mentally first saw it lying on the ground, rather than seated on a throne.

The ground and the surrounding room, including the walls, that I saw were of sandstone. There were gaps in the walls at around every five feet, of equal distance, which let in the open air; in this particular mental image it seemed to be night. There was a gold leaf tapestry on the furthest left hand wall; I couldn't make out any symbols or markings on them, though.

The circle seemed huge; perhaps 12 feet rather than the 9 Imperial mentions. I'm not so good with numbers, but it looked as though 3-4 people could stand next to each other in it fairly comfortably. It wasn't painted in jet black, but actually white, and the sandstone was sufficiently dark orange that it stood out well. The triangle was on the right hand side of the circle from the operator's perspective, facing forward towards it, and I think would have been about three feet equilaterally as well.

The single main thing that struck me, though, was the centrepiece of the room. There was a large steel firepit (probably a meter in diameter) between the circle and triangle, which struck me as odd, although again, I wouldn't really know.

I saw the operator as wearing pure white. The sword present was a scimitar rather than a straight blade. Another odd point which I could not figure out the rationale for, was that in this mental image anyway, the operator had a thick staff of probably 5" in diameter, and between the final calling and the welcoming of the spirit, struck the ground with it three times, in a manner which reminded me of the use of a gavel.

I could just be remembering what I've seen in a movie somewhere, but somehow I don't think so. I really don't know where the inspiration for this image would have come from, since I've never read personally about anyone doing a Goetic evocation who didn't do it in a garage, basement, or lounge room. I got the impression though that what I was seeing, was something close to what the ideal/original environment for performing these evocations would have been thousands of years ago, if Solomon actually did perform them himself.

As insane as it might sound, I've honestly started wondering whether or not I might have reincarnational memory where the Goetia is concerned. Reason why I say that is because, in conjunction with this, when I was reading Lon DuQuette's book on it the other night, where he describes it feeling like having to pull one of them from your stomach, my own stomach suddenly tensed up to an extreme degree, and I underwent a fairly severe emotional state change, as well; it was like I could relate to what he was saying, and yet I've never actually done a Goetic evocation in my life before.

I'm also noticing where the Goetia is concerned...I'm becoming obsessed. I will look through the descriptions of the various entities, and basically start thinking how horrible they all are, and how I'd never want to have anything to do with that. I close the book, or the site or whatever...and then a few days later, I'm back looking at it again. ;-)

Anywayz...just some random weirdness from the last few days.

This post has been edited by Petrus: Feb 25 2009, 10:58 PM

In my mind, the environment you have described would be perfect for a Goetic evocation. The fire between the circle and the triangle sounds as though it would be used in the 'Conjuration of the Fire' mentioned in the Lesser Key of Solomon, where the practitioner would burn the spirit's seal in order to punish it or regain control over it. I also have similar feelings of something akin to deja vu when reading about certain magickal exercises or rituals, and I also experienced a kind of obsession with magick in general when I first came upon it and it's never gone away...

In my mind, the environment you have described would be perfect for a Goetic evocation. The fire between the circle and the triangle sounds as though it would be used in the 'Conjuration of the Fire' mentioned in the Lesser Key of Solomon, where the practitioner would burn the spirit's seal in order to punish it or regain control over it.

Yep. I just thought maybe the fire's placement in terms of what I saw was a bit weird, but who knows? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The sword of Goliath is described with an obscure Hebrew word which has been the subject of some controversy among Bible scholars.

Goliath's armaments are described in detail. His armor (helmet, bronze scale mail, bronze greaves) weighed more than 120 pounds. His spear-head weighed 15 pounds, and he had a shield carried by a bearer. The author evidently wanted special attention paid to the nature of his foreign weapons and armor, emphasizing (or exaggerating) their toughness and completeness. He is also described as having an ornate sword.

It is clearly a sword, but of what description, there is no solid definition. The same word is used in Jeremiah in relation to swords, along with two other words for swords in the same passage. These "swords" are found elsewhere in the Bible along with words for waving or swinging, and the words for stabbing or thrusting are found with a different Hebrew word for "sword." Greek versions of the text are compared to those of Homer, where swords are frequently mentioned.

Goliath's sword has a wide blade, supposedly meant for swinging, so it is thought to be either a scimitar with a curved blade, or a gladius-type sword.

It was this sword that David kept, after beheading Goliath at the Vale of the Terebinth, and later used against Saul. "Is there a sword in the house?" he asks when cornered, and finds only this weapon. "There is none finer!" David replies, and thereafter keeps it as a family heirloom. If Solomon were to use a sword, this would very likely by the one in his hands.

It was this sword that David kept, after beheading Goliath at the Vale of the Terebinth.

"You come to me in the name of the Philistines. But I come to you in the name of the God of Israel. And today I will make your body food for the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field. And today men will know that there is a God in Israel." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

When I first read the story of David and Goliath, I wondered how a boy could wield such a sword, that belonged to a supposed giant. There are even sholars of a certain area who believe Goliath was one of the last remaining nephilim. Though one of the earliest records is the dead sea scrolls, who put goliaths height at 6ft 7'', and later this changed along the way to 9 and half feet. There is even some evidence to suggest that the battle was between Elhanan, as some have pointed to the book of samuel.
Nevertheless it would seem possible for an average human to wield a sword that belonged to someone over 6 and half feet in height though would be cumbersome.

This post has been edited by loki: Feb 27 2009, 08:02 PM

Though one of the earliest records is the day sea scrolls, who put goliaths height at 6ft 7''

I'm only just under that. We measured me just the other day; 6'6". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm also noticing where the Goetia is concerned...I'm becoming obsessed. I will look through the descriptions of the various entities, and basically start thinking how horrible they all are, and how I'd never want to have anything to do with that. I close the book, or the site or whatever...and then a few days later, I'm back looking at it again. ;-)

Sounds like someone wants to talk to you... do you find that their names end up in your head at random intervils? This happens to me a lot.... usually means they need to talk. Its either that, or they throw light in my eyes, drop a book, or make coffing sounds or call out my name (this doesnt happen anymore, because when I see their names, I know I should just check to see if something is needed).

...and yes, I know, being a goetic's bitch can be a bit annoying (I know not to always run when called...), but hey, they do work for me, and they LOVE it. Keeps them entertained.

In short, do you feel one of them is trying to get your attention? might pay to just call them forward and say "HEY, yeah you, whats the deal? your hanging around me a lot... any reason as to why?"

and remember..... creaming soda (always buy the cheap no name brad stuff) always tastes nice... and can be a nice incentive.

if you get no luck, drop a line, I'll see if I can talk to them and find out if its just you... or them

Sounds like someone wants to talk to you... do you find that their names end up in your head at random intervils? This happens to me a lot.... usually means they need to talk. Its either that, or they throw light in my eyes, drop a book, or make coffing sounds or call out my name (this doesnt happen anymore, because when I see their names, I know I should just check to see if something is needed).

I ended up doing an almost completely improv evocation of Paimon at one point, which was almost entirely inconsequential aside from a bout of fairly severe nausea which lasted for several hours afterwards. I think he did speak to me, but I was fairly imperious and arrogant towards him, I will admit; someone else told me that I shouldn't evoke him again without an apology. With him though I just felt as though it wasn't appropriate to take any crap; some of the Goetics I feel ok about, in impression terms, but Paimon isn't one of them, even though most here have said he's usually ok.

In short, do you feel one of them is trying to get your attention? might pay to just call them forward and say "HEY, yeah you, whats the deal? your hanging around me a lot... any reason as to why?"

Out of all of them, I'm primarily drawn to Phenex; mainly because I read about a really cool experience someone had with him once, and also because I feel as though he would be awesome for helping with the computer programming work that I sometimes do. So I've consider maybe making offering to him at some point, but I don't want it to seem too much like demonolatry, either; even though he is one spirit who I'd like a good relationship with.

Imperial's account has made me think that Shax could help me economically as well, although recently something happened to make me think that Kali is already trying to help me in that regard anywayz.

if you get no luck, drop a line, I'll see if I can talk to them and find out if its just you... or them

If you're still here, by all means, see what you can find out, if you don't mind doing it. I'd be interested to know if they think I do have reincarnational history with any of them in particular.