Thelemic Godforms, identification with others Options

I have always associated the three God(dess)forms of Thelema, with other deities. And while all three are outward forces, there prime roles are that of the self, as "Every man and woman is a Star."

Hadit (Chaos) i've equated with various entities, as he represents the Slayer (Set/Shaitan) and the slain (Osiris/Jesus), he can be seen as Lucifer, the core of the Star, Shiva, the destroyer, as well as the creator, the Most Worshipful Grand Master Hiram Abiff. He is the hanging God, Odin, and the Trickster, Loki. He is also the Un-Holy Guardian Angel, called Aiwaz or Aivas by Crowley, that is the higher concioucness, the soul.

Nuit (Babalon)- Our Lady is seen as both the beautiful mother Isis, Diana, Demeter, Cybele, Magdalene, Eve, and Sophia, as well as the dark goddess, the warrior Ishtar/Ashtoreth, the Queen of Crossroads Hekate, the Mother of Succubi Lylyth, and the manslayer Kali. In either incarnation she is the giver of Gnosis, the holder of the Dark Chalice (Sangraal) containg the holy blood of Metzalion (Hadit)

Ra Hoor Khu/Harpocrates/Heru Ra Ha (Baphomet)- The Great Architect of the Universe (TGAOTU). Abraxas, the two (Nuit and Hadit) in one, joined in Divine Union (bridal chamber). While (s)he may bethe creative energy of the cosmos, the main function of Baphomet is that of the individuals creativ power as a God(dess), thus he is the idividual when the core of the Star (the soul) and Babalon-Nuit merge their energies together. Baphomet s the Divine Androgyne, HoruSet/NephthysIsis, YeshuaShaitan/MaryLylyth, SoLuna, and so muny more.

Is there anyone else who sees the pattern in this, or perhaps even follows this themselves?

I must say I never seen these attributes assigned to Thelemic pantheon.I assume most of this is your own idea?

I thoroughly disagree! But, this is my humble opinion! Believe what you'd like... but I find this a rather stark example of newage sophistry. It mixes everything into conflicting soup! Again, IMHO!
PS: Crowley claims that AIWASS is a trans-Plutonic entitiy...a far stretch from a (un)holy guardian angel! ???

93,

PS: Crowley claims that AIWASS is a trans-Plutonic entitiy...a far stretch from a (un)holy guardian angel! ???

While Aivas-Hadit was indeed "otherworldly" he was still Crowley's Higher Conciousness (HGA, Daemon, Soul, Genius, call it what thou wilt).

"I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guradian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."
- Equinox of hte Gods

I must say I never seen these attributes assigned to Thelemic pantheon.I assume most of this is your own idea?

Some are of course my own ideas, however, this idea has been formed orignally by Grant, as well Crowley himself.

"It is also to be considered that Nu is connected with North, while Had is Sad, Set, Satan, Sat (equals "Being" in Sanskrit), South. He is then the Sun, one point concentring Space, as also is any other star. The word ABRAHADABRA is from Abrasax, Father Sun, which adds to 365. "

"Zeus is connected with IAO, Abrasax, and the Dental Sibilant Gods of the Great Mysteries, with the South and Hadit, Ada, Set, Saturn, Adonai, Attis, Adonis; he is even the "Jesus", slain with the Lance, whose blood is collected in a Cup..."

93 93/93
Noxifer

This post has been edited by Noxifer_616: Aug 2 2007, 10:19 AM

Soup. And not well seasoned, at that.

"the Dental Sibilant Gods of the Great Mysteries" ....???

"I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guradian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."
- Equinox of hte Gods

Aiwass was not held in anything in Sumer as its presence wasn't granted to us until Crowley came in from the Egyptian noonday sun. Being 'human' is the closest truth I can glean from this. Loving humanity does not an 'Ipsissimus' make...
Have you ever read Crowley's autohagiography? His words. Crowley was a punster and had an ego to match a Macy's float at Thanksgiving.
Kenneth Grant has explored a large plot of esoteric landscape but is, alas, sliding on the slippery slopes of dementia. His last three books are a fine testament to that. His Nightside of Eden w/Michael Beaurtiax (sp?) is a good example of his more illuminating books!

Sorry....I just can't agree. Unfortunately, this kind of stuff is rife throughout the internet and sheople believe most everything they read.
Be informed! Do the research! Find out for yourselves and apply what you learn to your all-to-brief lives! Even a raving fat lunatic spouting off about the vagueries of Newage (nice picture, eh?) shouldn't sway your common sense(s)!
Noxifer, I was once 17 and even today, many decades later, admit to getting carried away with idealism. This isn't personal...just a rant from someone with their own opinion. Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/i_triangle.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/horse.gif)

Nuit and Hadit are higher concepts than the ones you attribute to them.

Do not trust everything you read, lest you fall prey to the false crown of knowledge.

Ok, anyone got an idea what to do after having succeeded in communicationg with the HGA?

OFF TOPIC:
Please do not attempt to derail existing threads with off topic questions or comments. This is a friendly warning, do it again and it will be an official warning...
-Nero

i think all these attributes get a bit, strange. It seems like you've got ideas of various gods, and then tried to slot them in together. very dangerous ground.
If one writes books in this matter, then it can seem a bit desperate. Being a magick, writer it can get to common to use sentences like ' this can be compared too'.
This was one of the problems with aleister crowley, it all got a bit boring linking everything to everything. hindu gods, to quabbalah. In my opinion it needs to be done
not extremeley regualar and when done, a really really clever but also obvious link.

I have always associated the three God(dess)forms of Thelema, with other deities. And while all three are outward forces, there prime roles are that of the self, as "Every man and woman is a Star."

Hadit (Chaos) i've equated with various entities, as he represents the Slayer (Set/Shaitan) and the slain (Osiris/Jesus), he can be seen as Lucifer, the core of the Star, Shiva, the destroyer, as well as the creator, the Most Worshipful Grand Master Hiram Abiff. He is the hanging God, Odin, and the Trickster, Loki. He is also the Un-Holy Guardian Angel, called Aiwaz or Aivas by Crowley, that is the higher concioucness, the soul.

Nuit (Babalon)- Our Lady is seen as both the beautiful mother Isis, Diana, Demeter, Cybele, Magdalene, Eve, and Sophia, as well as the dark goddess, the warrior Ishtar/Ashtoreth, the Queen of Crossroads Hekate, the Mother of Succubi Lylyth, and the manslayer Kali. In either incarnation she is the giver of Gnosis, the holder of the Dark Chalice (Sangraal) containg the holy blood of Metzalion (Hadit)

Ra Hoor Khu/Harpocrates/Heru Ra Ha (Baphomet)- The Great Architect of the Universe (TGAOTU). Abraxas, the two (Nuit and Hadit) in one, joined in Divine Union (bridal chamber). While (s)he may bethe creative energy of the cosmos, the main function of Baphomet is that of the individuals creativ power as a God(dess), thus he is the idividual when the core of the Star (the soul) and Babalon-Nuit merge their energies together. Baphomet s the Divine Androgyne, HoruSet/NephthysIsis, YeshuaShaitan/MaryLylyth, SoLuna, and so muny more.

Is there anyone else who sees the pattern in this, or perhaps even follows this themselves?

93,

I must say that these attributions are beautiful and certainly not sophistry. This is a great conception mirrored in Carl Jung's conception of pleroma/creatura/abrasax along with the dichotomy helios/devil. I find that they are really 3-in-1 and they are each other for they are all truly above the abyss as Uni_verse said somewhat patronizingly... I think you actually get it since you see it is essentially the 2 combined as one... 'merged energies,' 'creative energy' 'androgyne' 'bridal chamber' etc. This is the essentially the final understanding of Mysticism: the state of mind where Self is All is One.

One conception Ive had is: Nuit is Infinity as All-inclusive, Hadit is Infinity as all-exclusive, RHK as both Infinities in one sense and the dualistic manifested universe in the other sense. I don't rely on labels and words though as they are very clunky when describing concepts that are meant to transcend dualisms.

IAO131

Ok, anyone got an idea what to do after having succeeded in communicationg with the HGA?

abandon the angel, let it go. You will know when to do this, in fact it may just leave.

you will be hurled into The Abyss, and your battle with Mara will begin.

For me, being just a beginner to Thelemic philosophy I've always felt there were paralells in between the different godforms of the different traditions. when I first heard of the concepts of Nuit and Hadit I thought it sounded alot like the concepts of Brahman and Atman found in the Upanishads. Babalon for me feels like Kali Or Chamundi, strong and feminine.

I'm not into thinking things over and over again too much, analysing the crap out of things never did it for me XD

It's just too hot here in Australia.

93 93/93

Although I have no doubt that as I get deeper into Thelema, the veil will be rent and I will gain greater insight; but as it is now, I see that Crowley was simply well-educated on other spiritual systems, and developed a syncretic system that acknowledged the parallels between others. To me, this attempt at unification gives credence to underlying, original entities or energies that have been differently interpreted according to the worshiping culture.

However, you CAN go into pattern recognition overdrive.

Babalon for me feels like Kali Or Chamundi, strong and feminine.

Babalon is the Universal Divine Feminine, Binah, named after the mysterious woman riding the beast in revelation. The symbolism of the whore suggests one who accepts all, as one might expect of the ideal conceptual embodiment of feminine energy.

Hadit (Chaos) i've equated with various entities, as he represents the Slayer (Set/Shaitan) and the slain (Osiris/Jesus), he can be seen as Lucifer, the core of the Star, Shiva, the destroyer, as well as the creator, the Most Worshipful Grand Master Hiram Abiff. He is the hanging God, Odin, and the Trickster, Loki. He is also the Un-Holy Guardian Angel, called Aiwaz or Aivas by Crowley, that is the higher concioucness, the soul.

"I now incline to believe that Aiwass is not only the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer, and mine own Guradian Angel, but also a man as I am, insofar as He uses a human body to make His magical link with Mankind, whom He loves, and that He is thus an Ipsissimus, the Head of the A.'.A.'."
- Equinox of hte Gods

Tiphareth is the sephiroth most often conflated with Jesus, in my literary travels; I've seen it described as the "Christ center" in several books. Of course, since the Christian holy trinity places Jesus in the supernal triad, you get the impression that you can't harmonize every system perfectly, especially if they have arbitrarily changed a correspondence altogether. However, it does make sense to view Jesus - in his mythological role as the dying god - as a member of the supernal triad, and the duality this gives the Universal Divine Masculine does syncretize Judeo-Christian and Pagan interpretations.

By "the God or Demon or Devil once held holy in Sumer", I assume Crowley means the supreme God of Heaven, which would be Anu. Or, if we're talking about the God that created man, that would be Ea. Jumping from here to Gnosticism, Ea's correspondences connect to IAO, which is Ialdabaoth, the Demiurge / Abrasax / Set / Satan. Is this where you connect Hadit and Aiwass?

Also, how is Aiwass "unholy"? The message he delivered was the seed of the Holy Books of Thelema, not the UN-Holy Books of Thelema. If Satan is an actuating principle and part of the Supernal Triad, perhaps the term "unholy" is a bit inaccurate.

This "Devil" is called Satan or Shaitan, and regarded with horror by people who are ignorant of his formula, and, imagining themselves to be evil, accuse Nature herself of their own phantasmal crime. (Liber ABA)

This post has been edited by th0th: Apr 26 2010, 10:02 AM