Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
 A Different Take
Praxis
post Mar 23 2006, 01:26 PM
Post #1


Mage
Group Icon
Posts: 214
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 2 pts




Almost every magickal paradigm shares one basic practice with regard to a complete Noob: they require the Noob to take on a new name as a symbol for referencing a new “magickal personality”.

Considering this has caused me to start wondering and contemplating this common practice.

Seems to me that this “magickal personality” is an Artifical Entity. By “artifical” I do not mean what fake, which how that term is popularly used. Instead, I mean created. Specifically: a “magickal personality” is that which a Noobie Mage names and creates – and then subsequently gradually grows through various stages through working the Art.

Yet that Artifical Entity is not a servitor.

That which basically differentiates a servitor and a “magickal personality” compared to each other is: a servitor is created for operating independent to a Mage – while a “magickal personality” is not created for operating independent to a Mage. Indeed, a "magickal personality" is that which a Mage puts on, enters into, operates from within... etc...

Another difference is that servitors can be grown to become egregores – while a “magickal personality” are grow to become something else. But before I get into what “magickal personalities” grow to become, I am going to associate a single, and ancient, term here for simply referencing “magickal personalities” and for providing an intuitive ledge from which you might be able to leap ahead and grasp what I am getting at here before I spell this out a bit more.

Instead of being a servitor, a “magickal personality” is an Avatar.

Yeah – I know that specific term has been hurled around according to all kinds of ways over the years. And I know where the word originally is from – and how it is most often popularly used these days to reference either picture icons, or video game personae. Yet I hope that, given the flexibility of the term over time, you will be able to allow me to use it here as I have (and will) - and that you playfully will be able to try it on, and “run with it” a bit as I am using it here - without mistakenly thinking that I am talking about Hinduism, picture icons, video games, or however else anyone else has used the word avatar.

So – to move on – in a nutshell, here is what I discern:

A Noobie Mage creates and names an Avatar. The Avatar is a vehicle through which a Mage then successively cultivates during magickal work. To use the differentiation of magickal work as I have been elsewhere in these forums: such methods can generally be considered as either thaumaturgical or theurgical.

Theurgical magick work results with growing the Avatar for eventual consummation with the so-called “Higher Self” or “Holy Guardian Angel” or “Divine Genuis” (or whatever a specific pathway prefers to call it).

Okay – what do you folks think about this assessment and explanation?

I can already have some questions of my own further along this line that I am considering, such as:

1. Is said consummation a communion with the “Divine Genuis”? Or is it a different scenario? i.e. Does the matured Avatar become the vehicle through which the “Divine Genuis” can fully, and optimally, incarnate through the Avatar – which in turn interacts with events in this world via the physical vechile (the body)?

Note on #1: those questions rest upon discerning a difference between communion and incarnation. In the case of the former, the result is a fusion of Avatar and “Divine Genius” – such that the two become one with no further distinctions between them being possible. A new entity is created. This differs compared to incarnation, because - in the incarnation scenario - although the “Divine Genius” operates through a matured Avatar, a difference would continue to exist between Avatar and “Divine Genius,” in the same way that a difference exists between a spirit incarnating through a human body. This however leads to other questions connected with those that follow in #2.

2. What exactly is a Mage, such that one can create an Avatar for such consummation? Is a Mage merely a human fooling around with various personas? Or is a Mage really some other kind of entity, in relation to the “Divine Genuis”, with the penultimate purpose of creating and growing an Avatar for the purposes (whether fusion or incarnation) of said “Divine Genius”?

Note on #2: the rub with these questions is – if a Mage creates and grows an Avatar for full incarnation by the Mage’s “Divine Genius”, then what happens to the Mage? Is the Mage just pushed out, annihilated, something else entirely… when the “Divine Genius” fully incarnates? Or what? A similar issue exists with regard to considering the outcome as being communion, instead of incarnation: once Avatar and “Divine Genius” fuse, what then happens to the Mage who created and cultivated the Avatar component of the newly created “Divine Genuius+Avatar”?


Insights, questions, and comments most welcome.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post


bym
post Mar 23 2006, 06:43 PM
Post #2


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




I am trying to wrap my head around the scenario's that you have provided for discussion sake. Again, bear with me as I frequently 'miss the point'. The creation of a magical persona is to help the magician in dealing with the switching of realities. The 'magical' reality versus the 'mundane' reality. I've seen this concept used with the use of a token item, such as a ring or a robe or a talisman to differentiate between the two states of mind. Quite often it is necessary to form distinct delineations between the alternate realities for the sake of keeping perspective. Shamans use the inception of laughing, and or eating to help solidify the mundane world. Staying too long in the other realms being viewed as problematic as, quite often, these realms differ dramatically from each other which can lead to physical injury to say nothing about psychosis.... It has been well established that by eating a meal will temporarily 'close down' the solar plexis chakra and thereby cause the cessation of the subtle vibrations perceived in the alternate realities. This induced state of schizophrenic outlook is very useful for some. The 'Holy Guardian Angel' has been suggested as, in actuality, ones 'higher self' and that the integration of this piece of our whole is necessary in order to progress spiritually. We are, in essence, GOD. The debate rages on. First you must subscribe to the idea that we are made up of multiple layers, each layer providing its own unique insights and abilities. Interestingly enough this idea finds itself appearing in any number of different cultures throughout the globe. Some view these layers as being separate beings, others view them as facets of a whole. I leave it to your own viewpoint. The magical personality is not, IMHO, a servitor. The use of this personality is a psychological 'trick' which lulls the mind into accepting the existance of the alternate 'magical' universe and allows us to turn its perceptionds on or off, at convenience. The state of being 'stuck' in the magical reality is evidenced by hauntings and the possible incarceration in a mental ward of your local nuthouse...
LOL! All of this has been grossly simplified for brevities sake. There are any number of other explanations out there... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tn_dizzy002.gif)

This post has been edited by bym: Mar 23 2006, 06:45 PM


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Praxis
post Mar 24 2006, 08:38 AM
Post #3


Mage
Group Icon
Posts: 214
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 2 pts




Okay, bym – I think that we are on the same page with regard to agreeing that the magickal personality is not a servitor.

Taking a step from that congruence: although all servitors are artificial entities, all artifical entities are not servitors.

Now, consider the Initiation Rite. I have noticed that many times Noobs often approach that rite as if it is just a formalized way for dramatically heralding “And now, I beginneth my magickal study! Ta daaa!”

In part, what I suggest here is an approach that lends that rite more weight than a mere announcement and marking for the advent of studying one of the various magickal pathways. I suggest that the Initiation Rite is the outer method according to which a Mage creates an artificial entity. Not a servitor. And not any other kind of menial fetch that independently operates in comparison to a Mage. But, instead, a very, very special kind of artifical entity. An entity that originates, that comes from, a Mage – an entity that remains intimately connected to a Mage – an entity that a Mage progressively develops, grows – an entity through which a Mage magickally operates with increasing mastery.

An Avatar.

I do not think that I can stress enough that Avatars, the magickal personalities of Mages, are not separate from a Mage. Different? Yes. Separate? No. And I also am not suggesting that an Avatar is any kind of physical vehicle (like a human body) that can be put in on a shelf, or in a box, until it is time to take it out, dust it off, and use it in a ritual. A Mage can make such a physical vehicle (of some sort, be it a figurine, etc…) for a servitor – but as noted already, Avatars and servitors are not the same.

An Avatar is something far greater.
An Avatar has a far more noble purpose.

In part, the purpose of an Avatar would be to help the Mage deal with the switing of realities (to paraphrase you here.) Any token item (like a ring as used by the Aurum Solis, or robes, etc…) are not that within which an Avatar resides – but rather keys that enable a Mage to “put on”, to enter into, to operate through from within, etc… one’s Avatar. What could be said, at most, is that which a Mage’s Avatar dwells within is the physical body of that Mage.

So what I suggest here is considering the Avatar (magickal personality) are more than just a psychological trick that partitions the mind. I suggest considering the Avatar as an uniquely and purposefully created and named artifical entity – through which a Mage can attain the specific destiny of connsumation with the “Divine Genius,” where such is the result from theurgical magick work.

If you can comprehend that point, then you might be able to discern questions that arise regarding this kind of consideration (of which the ones I asked at the end of my last post are a part).

Instead of repeating them here, I will outline a scenarios that might provide a context from which such questions could be more clear.


THE SCENARIO


Rouster of participants

Human. Mage. And, Divine Genius.

Dynamic

One successfully progresses through the proverbial “dark night of the soul,” at the end of which one Awakens to being more than a human. One Awakens to being aware that one is that which incarnates the human vehicle that one previously thought one was while Slumbering before experiencing that dark night. One Awakens to being a Mage. The newly Awakened Mage receives urgings from the Divine Genius to initiate something special, something new, something important with purpose, something that grants the Mage the opportunity to cultivate magickal growth that can culminate with a glorious destiny. The Divine Genius urges the Mage to initiate an Avatar, and then, subsequently urges the Mage magickally to develop that Avatar - until arriving at the point of readiness for cosmic consummation with the Divine Genius. All theurgical magick work leads to such growth, such cultivation, and ends at the destination, fulfilling the destiny, of such consummation. The Great Work.

Commentary and Questions:

Okay, what, by the hairy balls of Thor (to quote my little bro), is a Mage in this scenario? Notice here that the Mage is not the equivalent of a human. After the “dark night of the soul” the Mage Awakens to not being the human (either body or mind). Then the Mage then gets busy (with urgings from the Divine Genius) to initiate an Avatar. So what exactly is the Mage? And what happens to the Mage upon consummation with the Divine Genius? Is it the Mage that fuses with the Divine Genius, via the Avatar? Is the Avatar grown a meta-vehicle in, and through, which the (Mage and Divine Genius fusion) then function? Or, at completion of the maturation of an Avatar, does the Divine Genius kick the Mage (whatever the Mage is) to the curb, and take over? Or what? Never mind the question: what is the Divine Genius? Where did all these Divine Geniuses come from? Are there more than one (one per Mage)? Or is it just one Divine Genius working with a bunch of Mages?

Perhaps the Avatar does not come from the Mage at all.
Perhaps the situation is different in a subtle (but significant) way.

Perhaps the Avatar is an emanation from the Divine Genius that is granted to a Mage when said Mage formally requests it (via the Initiation Rite). Perhaps theurgical magick work is the process of a Mage progressively learning to “bring through”, or fully incarnate, the Divine Genius, bit by bit? i.e. an Avatar is just the term for the basic, initial bit brought forth. In which case, up to, and after, the consummation, the Mage remains that which operates through the full Divine Genius?

Yet even with this take on the issue – the questions remain: what the hell is the Mage, where did the Mage come from, and what the hell is the Divine Genius and where did it comes from?

Although I am very intrigued by the possibilities for this scenario – lots of it has a grand kind of epic ring to me that resonates with my experience - I honestly do not know how clearly and definitively to answer these questions for this scenario. I admit it – considering this boggles my mind a bit, never mind making the ol’ traditional scenario and explanations seem so much more simple.

I mean: just chalking up the Divine Genius and as the Mage’s so-called “Higher Self”, tossing away the term Avatar, and leaving the magickal personality as just a psychological partitioning trick seems like a refreshing game of patty cake compared to what I have outlined here.

Yet I suspect that might be on to something here that has the stimulating ability to intrigue and engage consideration from an explanation that sweeps all of this under the convenient rug of psychological partitioning and subsequent reconciliation techniques - to an explanation that establishes an epic context with cosmic importance.

In other words: it is simple to say that a Mage is one who partitions one’s mind into “higher” and “lower” self, and then – using yet another partition (the magickal personality) – magickally strives for progressively reconciling the two. And that this is the Great Work.

It is quite another thing to say that a Mage is one who has Awakened from the deep Sleep of forgetting that which one is – and has then received the alluring urging from a Divine Genius to embark upon the adventurous journey for originating and raising an Avatar, to attain the supernal destiny of cosmic consummation.

Now, I am mindful that rhetoric spins atmosphere. Yet I sincerely cannot shake the intuition that what I have been belabouring here is more than just a prettier way for explaining the same ol’ same ol’ – with no significant difference of meaning referenced.

Ye, Gods - I am ending this long ass post here and throwing all this out again to anyone who wants to leap in and play around with these considerations, as well as maybe chew on those questions that I have raised (as well as other questions I might have missed regarding all this).

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

bym
post Mar 24 2006, 11:47 AM
Post #4


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




I think that, IMHO, you are overcomplicating this. I don't find that the Magical personality as a Artificial Construct. If nothing else it serves as a convenience to the psyche. The jury is still out in terms of viewing the human structure from protoplasm to spiritual ideal as separate forms. Is the human spirit a separate being from the organic shell? This is a time honored debate. Belief and Faith have a heavy role here and is highly subjective. Does Spirit exist...(without a physical shell)? If one agrees that this is so, then it stands to reason that Angels, etc. do exist. In evocation we call spirits to attend us in a visible form. We even demand that they appear in a shape that is comely to look upon. I've known some spirits to have some very abstract forms...some which made it impossible for them to manifest in this reality as our senses are not equipped to sense certain multidimensional forms... I digress.
I disagree with your lumping the magical personality into or under the label of 'artificial'. If I broaden my scope to include the idea that certain psychological 'tricks' are indeed artificial constructs created to facilitate 'spiritual' progression then I can comfortably work with your model. Now the trick is to be able to see the human being as a multiple form from meat to mind. Your scenario(s) bring some basic questions to the fore even though they deal with man. Microcosm vs macrocosm. Man vs God. These are issues that form the basis for the Occult (hidden). Everybody has their own take and with each argument comes a counterpoint. I don't know the answer. I have my own ideas about things but I view anything regarding spirituality as a very personal thing and, therefore, very difficult to have an objective discussion on. Cop-out? You 'betcha! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)
That an Avatar is more than the Mage is an interesting idea. A personalized egregore that we assume sometime during the enlightment...This is a variation on the 'higher self' scenario...only calling the Avatar as originally being artificial. (btw, as a side note: a Mage is someone who uses Magic...period) This could open some interesting discussions when it comes to the subject of human psychological development...not only of the Magical personality but also just 'ordinary' development. When does this 'Avatar' become a reality? When one makes a concious move toward enlightenment? ...or sooner? Some people spend their entire lifetimes blissfully unaware of any of this 'stuff'. Must one needs be Initiated in order to experience these things? Not conciously. Ah well...my ill deed has been done for the day...I have flailed around in the dark and left more questions than answers. Incoherence is mine....but I promise you this...I will think on this again...and again...and again, for that alone, I thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Praxis
post Mar 24 2006, 12:33 PM
Post #5


Mage
Group Icon
Posts: 214
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 2 pts




Well, ya know, bym: that which is familiar to some often is considered as simple, and in the converse, that which is unfamiliar to some often is considered as complex. One can shift back and forth between them, however, as an issue is considered from various vantages.

I wonder if your disagreement about “lumping the magical personality into or under the label of 'artificial'” is based upon not getting that I am in no way derogating one’s magickal personality here. Unfortunately, the popular usage of the term does tend to suggest some kind of put down of whatever is said to be artifical – most often in contradistinction to what is said to be “natural” which is upheld as far more desirable.

Let me be clear: by artificial, I simply and only mean that it is Mage created - with the positive connotation of it being a work of the Art (artificial).

And I suspect that we can agree that a magickal personality is created, and grown, by a Mage by one means or another.

What my exploration of this has been about, is examining how perspective and approach changes when the magickal personality is considered as a purposefully created entity (as an Avatar), instead of just considering it as a technique for psychological partitioning.

After running with this enough to outline the scenario and pose the questions that I have been able to cough up considering the magickal personality as an Avatar – and considering your responses, bym – at least one thing has become clear to me:

I more clearly can see why many balk at considering magick according to the “psychological model”.

Seems to me that considering a magickal personality as a psychological partition (instead of considering it as an Avatar) is very akin to considering angels, daemons, deities, etc.. as psychological aspects (instead of considering them as entities).

I have found myself drawn to the process of entification (rather than the process of psychologization) here, because doing so opens up several different avenues for intriguingly elucidating epic explanations.

However, when delving into all the fascinating explorations is done, I must admit that – on the bottom line level of pragmatic outcomes – whether a magickal personality is, or is not, considered as an Avatar does not really matter. Because, in the end, a Mage still has to do the magickal work to develop the magickal personality: to grow the Avatar.

This all has been useful for me.

By no means do I consider this thread to be done, though.
So if anyone else has insights to share, bring 'em on!

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Praxis
post Nov 13 2011, 05:54 PM
Post #6


Mage
Group Icon
Posts: 214
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 2 pts




Update



Since I had the above conversation with bym five years ago, I have done a lot of further contemplation and experimentation about this topic. About a year ago, when talking this over with a buddy, he brought up that my speculation about Mages being associated with Avatars was really close to something that a company called White Wolf did with regard to an old RPG.


Needless to say, I was simultaneously intrigued and dismayed - because once some form of popular entertainment gets ahold of, and showcases, something - suddenly no one can think that one is talking about anything different than that public media version. As examples - consider what comes to mind when anyone talks about making magick rings (they think you're trying to be Sauron or some such foolishness); consider what happens when someone uses the word "matrix" (they think you're trying to be Neo); consider what happened soon after Madonna announced that she was into the Kabbala in the mid 90s (they thought anyone who was studying it was just a Material Girl's fanboi); hell - the fact that I used the term Avatar will have some people who don't realize I used it before the movie came out will more than likely erroneously to think that I was talking about blue monkey-cat people from the planet Pandora; etc...

Nevertheless, I did a bit of research about White Wolf's explanation for the usage of the terms "Mage" and "Avatar" and found this:


http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar

QUOTE
The Avatar (also Daemon, True Genius) is the source of an Awakened individual's ability to perform magic, and which grants the possibility of Ascension.
Mages experience the Avatar as a separate personality which is connected to the mage's soul, and which drives the mage toward Ascension. It will often speak to the mage, as a "voice in the head" or via dreams. Avatars generally take on a humanoid form of the opposite gender to the mage, though this is not always the case and is highly dependent on the mage's interpretation. Avatars are also in control of a mage's Seekings.

Avatars were historically guided to their mages by spirits known as psychopomps. The presence of psychopomps was direct result of the appearance of the Entelechy, and they radiated forward and backward in time from that point. During this time (which includes the Dark Ages), psychopomps chose mages and Avatars so perfectly matched that many mages were completely unaware of the presence of the Avatar, referring to it only as a sort of mystical Fount of energy. Unfortunately, this often meant the inner voice of the Avatar was rendered silent, and mages were free to pursue their own petty personal agendas. However, as time progressed away from the Entelechy, psychopomps become less common, leaving it up to Avatars to find their own mages.

During the Renaissance, Avatars were referred to as Daemons, but even then different mages interpreted them in different ways.

While some mages see Avatars as extra-dimensional entities, others (notably the Celestial Chorus) see them as facets of a greater consciousness, or even of the Tapestry itself. Along these lines, the Traditions often teach that Avatars are soul-shards of the "Pure Ones", ancient mages who Ascended long ago and who now seek to aid modern mages.

Amongst Technocrats, the Avatar is not seen as a separate entity but rather "True Genius", a higher comprehension of the natural world which allows them to understand and use Enlightened Science. The voice of the Avatar is explained as the Technocrat's own subconscious, though most agents undergo frequent psychological evaluation to make certain they are not developing schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder.



Ah, well - they beat me to it (wryly grins)
Still, I find the subject and topic interesting.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Nov 14 2011, 06:56 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Draw
post Nov 27 2011, 02:04 PM
Post #7


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 146
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: England
Reputation: 4 pts




I've played a bit of Mage, it's a fantastic game, was going to make a story for a few of my freinds to play but never got round to it.

Funny you should bumb this thread now because i've been intending to initiate myself recently as i've never really done it, an i just don't feel like i am who i am.
Pigeonholed into the box's people think i should fit into, but don't.

In the past i have considered using a Mage character sheet for this task, but i decided against it because of all the fictional extras and warping of genuine spiritual concepts
But i genuinely like the idea that you 'create' an Avatar with a name that you then become, it's spot on.

As a young adult i found myself in a reasonably powerful but unbalanced state so i used a weird looking puppet called jack to personify the aspects of my charactor that i didn't want to deal with right then (because i wanted a relationship with a woman)
Worked a treat, i was the Cool Mysterious guy with powers that she and i wanted for a year or so, and believe me when i say that puppet was just about the creepiest funnyest perverse mute thing you had ever seen in your life!
Anyway, naturally the relationship had to end and the puppet had to get burnt for my sanity's sake, an then came the years of being a creepy funny pervert.. not pleasant years, but nessesary ones.

Not sure how relevant that story is, in a way it's the opposite of the initiation avatar your talking about, but it makes me think of where the leftovers would reside and how healthy it would be to take on a new form only partially.
This is certainly something to consider very carefully i believe, the world has got enough part time hero's and Mages who can only cast when in the company of people who know their 'name'.

Quite a-lot of wisdom in tales about beans.

Do you know of any initiation rites for organized religions/cults using a similar concept?
Getting a new name is pretty standard, which is in essence quite similar, but do any of them take it further?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Vagrant Dreamer
post Nov 27 2011, 09:10 PM
Post #8


Practicus
Group Icon
Posts: 1,184
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Reputation: 51 pts




I met a couple of guys who wrote for the original Mage: The Ascension material (superior to Awakening, IMO). They were surprisingly - or not so surprisingly - inspired individuals with a great deal of occult background although neither of them practiced. Still, they chose writers on their ability to tap into occult history and tradition in order to craft the game close enough to reality to be immersive and fantastic enough to be more fun than real life.

I have had two really significant spirit guides, both of which served to shape my life towards magical practice and lifestyle. The first I had communicated with since childhood, and in my early teen years I came to the understanding that this guide was ultimately an expression of a deeper/higher aspect of myself, and this guide indicated at that time that this was the pinnacle of what I had to learn from him. He was subsumed by my waking consciousness, and I did not communicate with him again, but grew substantially in a short amount of time.

This happened again shortly afterwards, and my second guide brought me a much deeper awareness of myself as well as furthering a more subtle understanding of my Work, you could say somewhat deeper and more subtle than my previous guide. I knew, at this point, that this guide also must be an expression, but was unable to absorb him as I had the other for many years, and his explanation was that I was not adjusted appropriately - he was the 'tip of the iceberg' showing itself but there was a great deal more excavation to do before I could integrate his elements into my own awareness. This happened about five years ago, and the experience was similar but more... maturing I suppose.

Now, I encountered Mage when I was about 19, and the similarities were not lost on me then, either. I believe this is not a strictly necessary process, I think it's one of many different kinds of initiation that can happen. I do not know a process of fabrication under which this can be made to happen, as it happened to myself spontaneously, but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility. It seems to me that the value of these experiences, for myself, was that I was guided and instructed by a more aware aspect of my own consciousness or spirit, to a place where I was specifically 'groomed' to be able to accept that awakening process. I made some very significant life choices based on the input of these two guides - without that input and encouragement, I most certainly would not have arrived where I currently am; either in terms of actual life circumstances, or in terms of awareness. I have no guide currently that I am aware of, but this most recently acquired awakening may not be sufficiently integrated yet; my psychic faculties have grown considerably since that time and I live increasingly more... in the 'flow', as well. Being patient enough not to manufacture a new one 'artificially' is a challenge for me, but for all I know I am intended to do so.

I did once examine, a couple of years ago now, the possibility of evoking these parts of the self for the purpose of undergoing this process intentionally. I don't know what makes a person 'ready' for that process, or what the nature of those inner parts necessarily is - it's not an experiment I ever followed through with; integration with my second guide brought a sense of providential progression, the sort of thing that one accepts and watches for, while living the best life one can until then.

Now, as to the specific idea originally discussed, regarding the Avatar/Magical Persona, I think that there are, as usual, two 'layers' to this process, one entirely artificial and superficial, and one significantly more creative and taking place on a much deeper level of psyche. In my experiences, for instance, I did not perform magic through my guides - I was instructed, told to make adjustments, guided to understanding of the symbols and tools and the structure of the paradigm that I was co-creating with them. But, I performed magic on my own, did not assume their 'form' etc. However, the quality of my magical practice changed drastically after the first integration, and no less drastically albeit in more subtle ways.

To me, this is what an Avatar is, though. Whether spontaneous or evoked, it is a part of us that we are not initially able to fully comprehend and be aware of, and it guides us to that point where we can. It could be a called a vessel of awareness, or a repository which, when the time is ripe, is ultimately broken in the process of assumption.

The magical personality, to me, sounds more like partitioning on a different level, something slightly more superficial because there doesn't seem to be an end goal of integration, and the magical personality is not autonomous, and is not composed of anything more than what we create consciously in order to utilize it. It may be crafted with a purpose, but crafted only with the tools that we have available to us at that time. It must become obsolete as our awareness grows to supersede that of the magical persona. There must come a point, if we are in a growth process instead of just a magical practice, where assuming the persona we have created for this purpose would be limiting.

That's my bit, in any case. We may be saying the same things.

peace


--------------------
The world is complicated - that which makes it up is elegantly simplistic, but infinitely versatile.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Draw
post Jan 6 2012, 07:46 PM
Post #9


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 146
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: England
Reputation: 4 pts




I remembered that i did something similar to this as one of the first bits of work i ever did, almost a year before the puppet.
i was young and scared and without trust for any local spirits that may choose to guide me so i decided that while i couldn't trust most spirits i would be able to trust one that i created.
It was a wrapped up bit of paper jobby who's quite mutable persona would protect guide and find an divulge information to me.
It had a vast impact on me, although at times i wasn't sure of it's completion or existence it marked the end of my 'fear of the dark' and the beginning of an intense awakening full of wonderious insights.
It was year later that i recognized that the quality's that i had imbued within my creation had manifested quite effectively within myself.

Just before your last post on this i started creating a new 'guide' and considering what has been said and what i know to be it's likely effect
i made it like an incredibly 'idiolised' version of what i would like to be more like.

This year has been an incredibly bad one for me, my depression has been off the scale, my drug abuse with it and I've not displayed any skilled use of magic for years.
I've not had depression since, i feel far smarter more capable and i'm actually progressing quite well in the specialist areas of mastery that my creation holds.

Early days yet, i didn't want to write too soon but seems to be a good step for once.
Thinking back at it i've been mulling over doing it again for over a decade, it's very simple but something never felt right until recently,
it was probably best left for a time when i might know what i actually wanted from life.

I've obviously left out the majority of the process it'self, i don't know how much should be said in so few words, i'm a simple man an people can lead complicated lives.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Closed
Topic Notes
Reply to this topicStart new topic

Collapse

Similar Topics

Topic Title Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
No entries to display

6 User(s) are reading this topic (6 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th November 2024 - 12:23 AM