Later On Enlightenment.... Options

Have come to the realisation that there are realisations I'm not able to realise due to my age, this is nothing new to me, I have always felt trapped, fustrated, by this body of mine, waiting for it to mature so certain faculties can catch up with me.... not that I don't enjoy youth and my ravishingly good looks, they go so w ell with my charm wit and smile. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Was by chance talking to an aspirant of a priestly order who has recently taken up a practice, asked how he was finding it, tired of their theoreticising and vanity, they've finally released a book outlining a program people can get their molars into... he has started the year in program and said that he's found it difficult as he has children who are up at all hours of the night... I chuckled at this while boasting of the relative freedoms I enjoy as a single male, this we shared, but of course wisdom wispers telling me that his tending to his children has awakened faculties within him that a person without would perhaps not otherwise realise... I couldn't tend to a child, it'd mess with the relative freedoms I thouroughly enjoy as a single male, I mean, tending to life would mess with my program. Still, upon finding the time to commit to his practice he'll likely find it gilded in comparison to another, his path already has him showing aspects of divinity as a parent, a god to his child.... so.... this highlighted the fact that much of my work as a Cerimonial soon to be Practical Alchemist is to little effect, there is only so much that someone my age, mature but not matured can realise or cope with by way of spiritual experience, nature being the ultimate alchemist I must at least start to die before certain truisms about life and living become evident... the question then is.... what is it I'm doing? Where is all that practice "going"....?

The questiony part;

if one puts in the work at a young age or some early stage of their life does it lead to the chance that realisations not had during that stage will be had later as they are naturally actualised (is that a word or is it in the wrong place?) by the great alchemist, nature?

If so is there a too young in regards to alcemy and spiritual practice?

Peace
.M.

This post has been edited by Mchawi: Aug 9 2010, 04:51 PM

A very interesting post there, and something I've contemplated on some level quite a few times!

My opinion is that there is no such thing as "too young" to begin your spiritual development, there is just "too young" for certain practises, and even then that is subject to the individuals and groups involved. When I was younger I meditated occasionally, actively tried to do psychokinesis, fantasised and read about various mythical creatures, and was fortunate enough to enjoy long country walks with family members who are extremely knowledgeable about the natural world - to me that all helped me with a lot of my magical workings and interests later in life and was easy for a child to understand and enjoy. However, looking at these areas in a lot more detail would possibly have been harder for me understand at a younger age and so the amount I did learn and experience in those areas as a child were probably right for me personally at that time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As for where all this practise is "going", in all honesty I'm not totally sure, but I believe that it is all beneficial in some way and at the very least the work you are doing now will benefit you later on in your practises, making the more advanced and time consuming practises easier to actually do and benefit from.

That's just my opinion, though! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

This post has been edited by NetherSpirit: Aug 9 2010, 06:39 PM

if one puts in the work at a young age or some early stage of their life does it lead to the chance that realisations not had during that stage will be had later as they are naturally actualised (is that a word or is it in the wrong place?) by the great alchemist, nature?

If so is there a too young in regards to alcemy and spiritual practice?

For spiritual practice I think I heard Yogis like students between 20 and 40 years. So It would seem Eastern philosophies think there is a certain age range for teaching their practice.

"Nature is a manifestation of Deity, and because we are partakers in the divine nature all we see has affinity with us." -AE

For spiritual practice I think I heard Yogis like students between 20 and 40 years. So It would seem Eastern philosophies think there is a certain age range for teaching their practice.

Yoga is special in that physical training is primary in that practice. personally, I think the very young are better suited to spiritual practice than any age. The very young- 10 to 16- often are more open, more sensitive than any of use. This is tempered by lack of knowledge and perhaps understanding one needs to use such sensitivity.

Mchawi

What one learns early on affects how difficult it is to learn and understand the things a particular path might require. I do not know what your path requires, but I have trouble seeing the problem as age. In so far as age provides more opportunity for insight the old have an advantage. Yet, what is it that comes from age? Surly the only thing age gives us for cretin is aches. You say that some one older has children and so understands more about divinity. That is so, but he dose not see it as such. He sees it as an obstacle- however worth it- to his practice. Is it not possible that on your path the relative freedoms you enjoy can provide you with experiences. After all, age is all bout experiencing things. The more you experience the more you can understand. Our paths take us on long and varied travels. They end where they end and no two are alike as no two travelers are alike. The lessons are the same but how we learn them is different.

A more direct yet just as unsatisfying answer is yes but no. Yes, one learns one thing at an early age, and later that fact is understood in more context or at a deeper level. I can think of many times this has happen to me. But then the answer is also no. You learn what you learn in each part of life and it only seems like some are learned later than others because we think of them as happening in order.

Thanks for the replies, has been a bit quiet on SM recently.

Perhaps what I'm on about it more to do with, ''external'' alchemy than other forms of practice... a young person is supple and so would do well to start practicing yoga from an early age, it would benifit them to do so but as Magick is an ''external'' practice, one where inner forces are projected into an outside enviroment, it is left upto the practicioner to align him/her self with the current or force invoked in order to realise certain realisations well enough for him/her to transend a previous state... I'm assuming that not all of those realisations can be had by a young person which is the point of my question and subsequent befuddledment... a young person has not had certain life experiences, ones that would teach him/her those lessons... by way of maturity, each st/age has the body awaken certain faculties hence ''rites of passage'' in other cultures, these stages can be compared to obvious alchemical transitions... without having reached those AND without general life experience can a well minded but physically immature sixteen year old reach 3=8 grade (Practicus) intent on seeing 5° = 6° Adeptus Minor at the age of lets say eighteen? The projection of forces will apparently be in line with his/her ability to cope with those forces... but even then I'm not sure...

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if one puts in the work at a young age or some early stage of their life does it lead to the chance that realisations not had during that stage will be had later as they are naturally actualised (is that a word or is it in the wrong place?) by the great alchemist, nature?

If so is there a too young in regards to alcemy and spiritual practice?

When growing grass, or most any plant, first of all the soil must be tilled and made fertile. Sometimes the soil is already pliable, has good nutrients, is naturally irrigated, and ready to accept and foment the seeds. Sometimes, it is lifeless and requires a lot of work. Either way, once the seeds are planted, they then take time to germinate, to propagate. Further, to thrive and spread and produce, they must be constantly tended if we expect to direct that resource to produce what we want it to produce.

Inclusive of alchemy is a kind of natural philosophy, the understanding that the natural processes in the world around us also take place within us. Not exclusive to alchemy - as above so below is the short version of course.

And that is a somewhat cryptic message, the best ones always are in my opinion - this is not, by the way, an original allegory of my own - but it holds true. I was pursuing magical and spiritual experiences from a very young age, and although at the time I had experiences far more magical and experientially incredible then, they were still only seeds and good soil. I marveled at those experiences and at times lost touch with the 'mundane' world, but they didn't foster any deeper understanding of reality at the time. Over the years, however, as I began to study, and to practice, spiritual sciences in a quest to reconnect with that wonderment, what were merely marvels then have become practical wisdom that isn't about producing miracles, but living life artfully and with awareness of the truth of my actions and those actions around me. And the 'miracles' have become more subtle and more meaningful.

The make it rain, or to produce abundance, and so on, are fine and wonderful things, but have no greater impact than what they are. To experience true consciousness, to connect with the spirit of another person, to fundamentally change a person for the better not by preaching or pushing, but simply by the influence of your spiritual presence, is the kind of magical power that can change your life and the lives of others - their destinies - in a permanent and positive way. There is no shortcut to those kinds of experiences - not that you are asking for shortcuts, I realize - they are the culmination of the combination of experiences and time, fostered by devotion, practice, patience, and awareness.

peace

p.s. I started at around 6 years old - I do not believe there is a 'too early', although I do believe that the first years should be pure creativity and expression, with little immediate regard or concern for extracting wisdom from those experiences. I believe that wisdom arrives naturally as long as the individual retains the path.

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When growing grass, or most any plant, first of all the soil must be tilled and made fertile. Sometimes the soil is already pliable, has good nutrients, is naturally irrigated, and ready to accept and foment the seeds. Sometimes, it is lifeless and requires a lot of work. Either way, once the seeds are planted, they then take time to germinate, to propagate. Further, to thrive and spread and produce, they must be constantly tended if we expect to direct that resource to produce what we want it to produce.

Inclusive of alchemy is a kind of natural philosophy, the understanding that the natural processes in the world around us also take place within us. Not exclusive to alchemy - as above so below is the short version of course.

And that is a somewhat cryptic message, the best ones always are in my opinion - this is not, by the way, an original allegory of my own - but it holds true. I was pursuing magical and spiritual experiences from a very young age, and although at the time I had experiences far more magical and experientially incredible then, they were still only seeds and good soil. I marveled at those experiences and at times lost touch with the 'mundane' world, but they didn't foster any deeper understanding of reality at the time. Over the years, however, as I began to study, and to practice, spiritual sciences in a quest to reconnect with that wonderment, what were merely marvels then have become practical wisdom that isn't about producing miracles, but living life artfully and with awareness of the truth of my actions and those actions around me. And the 'miracles' have become more subtle and more meaningful.

The make it rain, or to produce abundance, and so on, are fine and wonderful things, but have no greater impact than what they are. To experience true consciousness, to connect with the spirit of another person, to fundamentally change a person for the better not by preaching or pushing, but simply by the influence of your spiritual presence, is the kind of magical power that can change your life and the lives of others - their destinies - in a permanent and positive way. There is no shortcut to those kinds of experiences - not that you are asking for shortcuts, I realize - they are the culmination of the combination of experiences and time, fostered by devotion, practice, patience, and awareness.

peace

p.s. I started at around 6 years old - I do not believe there is a 'too early', although I do believe that the first years should be pure creativity and expression, with little immediate regard or concern for extracting wisdom from those experiences. I believe that wisdom arrives naturally as long as the individual retains the path.

So you made fertaile the land from a young age so that when seeds were sown later on in life they grew well... in that way, yes, work can be done at a young age, the ground can be plouged allowing for realisations to sprout well later on in life. Would you consider the same to be true within the context of Cerimonial Magick? Could someone as young as six practice and achive realisations in a grade? Or would these surpass all meaning to him/her and not resonate well enough within his/her being?

Not looking for shortcuts, at all, its the opposite.

The part highlighted in your post means a lot to me, am frequently surrounded by neurotics and patronising characters commenting on every aspects of others lives, Narcissism, egotism through patronisation, theft of virtue. Rather than realise that the subtle rules the dence they seek to impact on others considering themselves holy and right for doing so. I allow this to fustrate me as its probably mirrored in some part of myself but thats another issue .lol.

Let it be, let it be as J.Lennon sings.

Thanks for the reply.
.M.

starting earlier gives you the benefit of having more time but may prevent someone from having a breakdown in their life and turning to something powerful and good like magic, or a religion. It seems to me starting earlier is better, as long as that's kept in mind.

The make it rain, or to produce abundance, and so on, are fine and wonderful things, but have no greater impact than what they are. To experience true consciousness, to connect with the spirit of another person, to fundamentally change a person for the better not by preaching or pushing, but simply by the influence of your spiritual presence, is the kind of magical power that can change your life and the lives of others - their destinies - in a permanent and positive way. There is no shortcut to those kinds of experiences - not that you are asking for shortcuts, I realize - they are the culmination of the combination of experiences and time, fostered by devotion, practice, patience, and awareness.

p.s. I started at around 6 years old - I do not believe there is a 'too early', although I do believe that the first years should be pure creativity and expression, with little immediate regard or concern for extracting wisdom from those experiences. I believe that wisdom arrives naturally as long as the individual retains the path.

I agree with this

This post has been edited by ☞Tomber☜: Aug 12 2010, 08:30 AM