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Ufo's, Your Thoughts? |
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Acid09 |
Nov 20 2006, 03:10 PM
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Health Hazzard
Posts: 894
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From: Colorado, USA Reputation: 16 pts
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This topic actualy came to my mind yesterday while watching the History channel. Now obviously nobody is going to prove or disprove the existance of Aliens, people from an alternate Earth(s) or any government coverup/ conspiracy.
The intent of the thread is simply to spark a discussion on people's opinions about UFOs. Depending on one's perspective UFOs are real in the sense that they're just that - Unidentified Flying Objects, or USOs - Unidentified Sea Objects. But this also means that just because an individual sees an object in the sky or sea that they don't understand doesn't mean it cannot be explained, not does it mean that are aliens or something just as outlandish.
Through out history and on into the present the current "mind" of the time has tried to explain things in the skys and seas they don't understand using the knowledge and science of the day. Needless to say there are countless accounts from people, sometimes en mass, wittnessing some kind of strange phenomenon in the sky and seas. And these accounts span the ages to the dawn of time itself. Even cave paintings display dipictions of strange humanoid creatures and objects in the sky. Since cave men didn't have written language the only way we could know what they were really trying to express is to go back in time and ask them. Not very likely anytime soon. This is equally true of other ancient "evidence" UFO enthuesiast have pointed to - the Nezca lines, stonehenge, the pyramids and other superstructures, Greek/Roman paintings of fiery chariots or flamming disks and so on in the skys, strange creatures seemingly operating mechanical vehicles in Aztec paintings, pictures of the Gods raining terror from the skies in what may seem like to us as space ships, the saint's encounters with angels were actually aliens. Some even claim the creation of civilization, and possibly humans, itself is due to an alien presance. A few think that these supposed "aliens" are not actually even aliens but ancient peoples who existed here on Earth long before humanity - possibly people from Atlantis.
We could go and on about other such "evidence" that seems to occur on into the 19th century and beyond. In our modern time we've advanced our vocabulary to include expressions of concepts ancient peoples probably couldn't even of dreamed. Because of our technical advancements we've encountered more than just hersey or esoteric piantings and writtings. Now we have numerous amounts of pictures, video coverage of strange objects, supposed radar and sonar coverages, unexlained interferance with electrical devices and so forth. And now even numerous accounts of abductions (some of which supposedly leave strange marks on abductees) as well as cow mutilations. While most (something like 95%) of these have been written off by skeptics and experts there are a few insidents in which the government, skeptics or experts could not or would not offer an explaination - or at least so says "UFO Files" on the History Channel.
So taken all of this "evidence" what do you all think it really means? Do UFOs indicate some unknown, possibly otherworldly, presenance? Or that the Goverment(s) are just using psychology to manipulate the world about its secret programs? Or are people just using their imaginations to try and make sense of the world around them using the knowledge of the time? Perhaps its is actually a combination of these. Then again we all could just be feeding ourselves a bunch of nonesense.
Your take?
This post has been edited by Acid09: Nov 20 2006, 03:11 PM
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Acid09 |
Nov 22 2006, 02:30 PM
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Health Hazzard
Posts: 894
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From: Colorado, USA Reputation: 16 pts
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I'm just going to babble for awhile about my thoughts. I'm sort of a sci-fi nut and I'm bored and have nothing better to do anyways. You all may or may not find interesting.
Well my reasoning is that the earth has been around for some 5 billion years and that is an amount of time thats very hard for a human mind to concieve. In our existance we have uncovered so much about our universe and yet have only scratched the surface. If we boil down the amount of time that has passed since our earliest hominid ancestors, about 4 million years, and compare that to the age of the Earth on a clock we've existed for about 3 minutes. Using the same time table analogy suppose there are intelligent beings who have existed for 5 minutes. Still a very short amount of time. About the equavilant of 6 million years. Given that this imaginary alien race evolves just as fast, if not faster, than we do then a 2 million year jump on our mear 4 means they could have evolved beyond our comprehention.
While I do imagine that intelligent life - life that is capable of not only emotion and free thinking but making technology - is extremely rare, I'm sure most of us can agree that there is at least other life forms on other worlds. Lets create an imaginary ratio. Suppose a million to one ratio; a million planets without life to one that has life. Compare that to our galaxy of roughly 200 billion stars, and I'll speculate to say some 2 trillion planets for an average of ten planets per star, means life aside from our own most likely exists. If a million to one is accurate we can estimate roughly 200,000 planets in our galaxy have life. If one in ten of these planets have some form of intelligent life, as described, then roughly 20,000 planets have intelligent life. Now scattered through out the galaxy that's roughly 250,000 light years across and something like 40,000 light years deep, thats certainly few and far between. However given that 5 billion year time table some of these races could be as old or older than our own planet. So old that perhaps they had to leave their original home because they simply out lived their sun's life. Point is if there is intelligent life then I am sure some where some form of it has evolved beyond us. Perhaps so far that they can create other intelligent life forms and space and time are just expressions and nothing more.
Of course we really can't know exactly how many planets there are in the galaxy or what ratio would be a fair estimate to determine how many have life, let alone intelligent life. There are so many other factors; i.e. life that does not feel emotion or is not carbon based or life that exists on some alternate plain coexisting with ours. But just for shits and giggles lets go ahead and make a comparison to the universe, not just our galaxy. If there are roughly 200 billion galaxies and each has about 20,000 intelligent lifeforms then that means there are about 4x10^13 intelligent lifeforms out there, scattered in the vastness of our universe. That number just facinates me 4x10^13 , assuming my math is right of course if you're reading into this go ahead and check to make sure. But even a number half that is still stagering. And since we know so little the number could equally be twice that. We really couldn't know.
So if there are some 4x10^13 intelligent forms of life out there then I think we can safely guess that some are incredibly advanced and some may have adapted to live in and travel space itself. The universe is roughly 15 billion years old. So given all this mathmatical voodoo has any merit then I think its reasonable to believe that this planet has caught the attention of some alien race (simply because its habitable for carbon based life forms) at some point in its 5 billion year existance, perhaps from entirely different galaxy(ies), who knows what, why or how many times something could have visited us.
Ultimately what all of this tells me is that a percentage of UFO sightings may actually be ETs. However I would say that 99.9% of sightings are not aliens. I've seen on the History and NGC channels numerous programs that claim governments are experimenting with new technology and that many UFO sightings are really their experiments. There are also a number of other possibilities - Venus, air plains, satellites, meteors, comets, birds, insects, solar flares and many other things people so adamently assume are aliens. Although given the above paragraphs I think it would be foolish to totally rule out the possibility of alien visitations, if not now then at some point in our history, and if not then why not now?
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FraterLvx |
Dec 31 2006, 02:30 PM
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3 Posts Probation
Posts: 2
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UFO's in my opinion are not extraterrestrial crafts (not that there would be anything wrong with that) but simply classified aircrafts. There is a lot of evidence to suggest this. Also probably the first to think about a Circular type aircraft were the Nazi's. Infact, after the War World 2, USA And Russia scrambled to get the most number of Nazi Scientist to work for them. This happened under a project codenamed "Paperclip" (If memory doesn't serve me wrong, there was another project too, but I can't remember the name). The story about aliens is counter information by the USA Government to protect there very highly classified technology. There is tons of evidence to support this, much more reliable than some dudes that sees a couple of orbs shooting accross the sky. For example during the 80's, there were repated sightings of a Triangular type UFO...years later it turned out to be the f-117 stealth fighter. The F-117A Nighthawk Stealth Fighter attack aircraft was developed by Lockheed Martin after work on stealth technology, and the predecessor test demonstrator aircraft, Have Blue, was carried out in secret from 1975. Development of the F-117A began in 1978 and it was first flown in 1981, but it was not until 1988 that its existence was publicly announced. (source: http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f117/)So IMO UFO's are not E.T. piloted but just Top Secret Airplanes (And God does the U.S. Government have classified stuff). Maybe far less inspiring to the Sci-Fi fan, but way more probable and way more supported by evidence!! Humbly, FraterLvx PS: Also things like the UFO's disappearing suddenly etc. can be explained with advanced camouflage technology. There are some types of technology currently under developement that would seem straight out of a Sci-Fi movie...For example the U.S government has been developing a type of body armor for infantry troops that will be adapted around 2020, which has the capability of making the soldier "invisible" or "disappear" (optic Camouflage Technology), resistant to any type of enviroment (can go and survive in chemically toxic enviroments etc.), with a helmet that monitors the soldiers vital signs and a lot of other stuff like super resistant bullet proof material etc. [and this is no secret, it has even been broadcasted on the discovery channel, imagine what the real top secret technologies are...50 or 100 years more advanced than modern day technology....) This post has been edited by FraterLvx: Dec 31 2006, 02:45 PM
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UnKnown1 |
Mar 25 2007, 12:51 PM
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Smasher666
Posts: 996
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Greetings 'FraterLvx', It does seem fairly well documented that the Air Force has at different times had secret air craft. Supposedly they tried for a long time tried to replicate an alien craft which crashed. So says the History Channel. (IMG: style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif) Of course the American Government would never try to cover anything up right? That would be like the recent White House firing Federal Prosecutors for investigating Republicans for corruption. George Bush says the firings were fair and there is no need to question his people under oath. (IMG: style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif) Maybe these aliens can help us locate the missing weapons of mass destruction? The Supreme Court says Bush has to stop listening to our phone conversations. He can still read our mail though and Habeas Corpus is no longer a constitutional right thanks to him. Hell maybe Bush is an alien. (IMG: style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif) Or at least the dictator of the 4th Reich. Seriously though. Anything the Government says has to be true right? (IMG: style_emoticons/default/head_hurts_kr.gif)
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Acid09 |
Mar 26 2007, 02:05 PM
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Health Hazzard
Posts: 894
Age: N/A Gender: Male
From: Colorado, USA Reputation: 16 pts
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QUOTE Maybe these aliens can help us locate the missing weapons of mass destruction? The aliens are working with our government in great scheme so they took Iraq's weapons and gave them to north Korea and Jesus was an alien rebel Bush isn't an alien persay - too dumb - he's an autonomaton sent to stupify the world so American Idol will forever remain a hit on Proxima Centuari. Sadly Bush's program files got corrupted in the quantum singularity hyperspace teleportation conversion center and he looks more like a monkey than a person and acts like one too. As a nationalistic American I'm proud to say I am devoted to the government and trust them without question. No that wasn't sarcasm either.... or was it?
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Darkmage |
Jul 5 2007, 10:37 AM
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Snarkmeister
Posts: 276
Age: N/A Gender: Female
From: 33N, 112W Reputation: 2 pts
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^heh. (IMG: style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) For me UFO's fall into the 'who cares?' category of existence. Yeah, there may be life out there, but who's to say it's life as we know it, and whether or not it would recognise US as life and have an interest in us? After all, there are bacteria which eat metal. They first found them at JPL. The kicker is that when they're in spore form they fail all known tests for life. They're alive, but unless they're active we can't see it. So what if we bump into something that's *really* alien, like silicon-based life, chances are we won't know what the hell it is. I prefer to think about more practical things. And while I love The Outer Limits (both classic and recent), The Twilight Zone, Tales From the Darkside, et. al., I don't believe they're real. (IMG: style_emoticons/default/face08.gif) This post has been edited by Darkmage: Jul 5 2007, 10:37 AM
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As the water grinds the stone, We rise and fall As our ashes turn to dust, We shine like stars... --Covenant, "Bullet"
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Xenomancer |
Aug 17 2009, 08:19 PM
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Rode off into the sunset...
Posts: 362
Age: N/A Gender: Male
From: AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON AKRON Reputation: 9 pts
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QUOTE For me UFO's fall into the 'who cares?' category of existence. Yeah, there may be life out there, but who's to say it's life as we know it, and whether or not it would recognise US as life and have an interest in us? After all, there are bacteria which eat metal. They first found them at JPL. The kicker is that when they're in spore form they fail all known tests for life. They're alive, but unless they're active we can't see it. So what if we bump into something that's *really* alien, like silicon-based life, chances are we won't know what the hell it is.
I share a similar sentiment, though the details are different. UFO'S? Sure Aliens? Why not? Do I care? 99% no. As far as I believe, if there is life here, I see our planet as one which is on the "Do not interfere" list. Think "Prime Directive" from Star Trek: Do not interfere with the development of any non-warp culture. If aliens exist, we'd be nothing more than a zoo attraction. Look at the little ants play, mommy! Seriously, if they wanted to contact us and make themselves known, power and technology like that certainly would turn our heads with little effort. So far so good. No major confrontation. Coming out with fanfare, gifts, and the offer to coexist in a massive damn intergalactic space Dance-off is definetely the way to go. We have sightings of weird things. Could be new technologies. From who, the guess is as good as any. Ask those rothschilds and rockefellers! They have all the money! (IMG: style_emoticons/default/13.gif) If anything, I love being human, but I still see how in the big scheme of things, humans are still insignificant, so I know where my humility is. We could be better, but we're not so bad off. Some aliens never make it past bacterial stage. If they want to talk to us, they will do it. They know how. They know our limitations. Nothing is holding them back from narrow-banding their radio frequencies and talking to us....unless there really was a "Avoid this world" policy. Just my thoughts.
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¡HA HA! ¡ESTOY USANDO EL INTERNET!- Never learn the Art of Sword before the Art of Dance. - Celtic Proverb- Even with spiritual power, an unchecked ego will only seek to deify itself. - Frank MacEowen- One cannot traverse waters without causing waves. - Xenomancer- I find it interesting that we as scholars of metaphysics have no problem discussing the intricacies of the threads of reality, but when it comes to the things that really matter, we forget them. - Xenomancer- This world is your home. We have a mix of everything here. If you want better, make better. There's no rule of going elsewhere for the tools. That's what magick is about. - Xenomancer
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