To Read In The Dreaming/astral Options

I am afraid to say that this is going to be a post about how bloody hard it is to read in the dreaming/astral, so forgive the rant and try to look for the bits worth reading. Or pass it up all together as I get rather academic when I am working out a problem.

I love to read and do so veraciously, naturally this caries over in to my dreams and sometimes into my astral work. Its rather interesting to note that I will often find myself reading something in a dream and it will be deep and profound, and yet also perfectly unintelligible scribblings- even while lucid dreaming. In the astral proper I find that particular symbols, words and what have you are a pain to read, discern, or even see clearly, if I can manage that at all.

On the other hand the general type of symbols such as trees, plants, buildings, and furniture, are all quite easy to make out. As are grand motif’s of existence, such as Jungian archetypes. So it would seem that, in perfect consistency with the contrary nature of the astral, the vaguer something is the easier to make out. It might also be put as something being vague in meaning and particular in role is it is easier to relate to ones experience.

However, I have, on occasion, seen personal symbols, and unique symbols that I have seen elsewhere quite clearly. The unique symbols are often complex but also composed of common element that one would not see as a symbol in the waking world. Think for example of a picture of happiness or absolute misery on might find in Time magazine. The personal symbols are more abstract, often resembling a sigil- sometimes a three emotional one.

So I have it that neither the complexity nor the abstractness of the symbol is what determines the ease of reading. Being that the personal symbols are abstract/complex and the clearest ones are complex/vague and the hardest to see are simple abstraction. It might well be that the shear mass of symbols that make up a page of text is just too much information to process though my projected mind. My ability factors in to it in odd ways as well. Over the past few months I have been doing third eye work, and now I can make out the shapes of the letters, but cannot relate them to any thing like words or meaning. Yet I find the complex symbols involving photograph like scenes with clear meaning also have the “blurriest” appearance.

I am tempted to say that symbols when viewed in the astral are separated from the thing they signify, relying on context and personal inference to establish a grander meaning. I believe that they are also made clear by their emotional content. This would explain why writing is so hard to make out and derive meaning form. The symbols (letters) have no emotional content, and are being assembled into bigger symbols (words) that compose bigger symbols (sentences), that are part of a grand symbol (the page of text.) At every stage the meanings grow in implications and nuance, creating noise as it does do, until the only thing discernable is the emotional content of the whole- and so I feel that the page is deeply profound.

Up date:

I may have an interesting experiment. I have decided to tried it the other way around, I chose a book I would like to read and place it on an alter next to my bed. The book and alter having been charged in such a way as to make finding them in the astral easy. I proceed to Astral Project and attempt to find the book. Once found I begin to read page by page. That I expect will be marvelously hard to do. I have only ever found the need to read snippets of text so some problems arise. Both turning the page and act of reading are disconnected in this context and the astral follows the mind which is notoriously prone to wander from the dull to the more interesting. I expect to have divergences as something is conjured in my mind. A remembered story I read, or an event that happened while reading. I expect to fail a number of times before I train my mind to work with determined concentration on the texts. But after rereading the first page several dozen times I’ll likely get it.
That said I have a feeling that the text will be meaningless and I will get nothing out of the exercise. In between the time between now and the last post I have practiced trying to un-blur the letters of text. I have managed to make them clearly visible, perfectly distinct and utterly meaningless. Communication in the astral seems not only highly symbolic and contextual, but emotional as well. I doubt words of any kind are transmittable there. At best I think I can extract knowledge from the book- its essence if you will- that will make reading the book easier and quicker. The particulars will be too subtle to communicate but the intent of the author wrote into the book should be easy.
Continuing to read page by page while astral projecting is going to be hard to finish the book in any amount of time less than it would take to finish the book normally. I have considered slipping into a lucid dream while reading the book so that I take it with me for reading in my dreams. This seems risky and needlessly complicated. Although Acid has talked about levels within dreams and outlined a course for dreaming within a dream that might be applicable.

When I have some time for experimenting I will try this and post the results here.

This is somewhat related...

As I understand it reading is normally a function of the brain, not the mind; a set of programmed neurons in the brain interprets and "speaks" the written word to your conscious mind. From my experience, in the astral your mind normally has no interpreter for writing so it appears to be meaningless. You can "bring over" your reading ability by starting with known words. For instance, print the words "AND", "THE" and "HIM" in large letters on a sheet of paper and put it near you when you project. When you look at the paper in the astral it will have three sets of unknown symbols on it, now remember that the first one was "AND", the second "THE", the third "HIM". Repeat the words in your mind. Try to see the words as you would normally read them. When you finish your projection remember that you read those words.

Next time write some other simple words and do the same. What you're doing is setting up the same "interpreter" in your astral body as you have in your physical body. Since it already exists in the physical it shouldn't be long until a copy is present when you project. Be aware that if you don't use it regularly it will not be maintained.

A similar system works in lucid dreams. Remember the word "AND", see it printed on a paper, remember how it looks. Repeat until reading is as automatic as in real life. Understand that reading in a dream is usually reading what your unconscious just wrote, so it may be nonsense or profound.

I've had the same issue since I started astral projecting and went to the Akashic Records. I really questioned what the purpopse of a grand celestial library, if you cant read a damn thing. So I took a different approach. In the astral, thoughts, vibrations, energy, and information flow 24/7 so I placed my hand on a certain page in the book and absorbed the energy of the page through my third eye and crown chakras and it played through my head much like a vision. So, its not the same as reading and enjoying your own personal interpretation of the book, but if it's information your seeking this should work just fine.

I feel you on this one ha. As far as astral traveling and reading I think I can do it decently enough but it takes quite a bit of concentration and sometimes I get the "blaze and burn out" sort of effect where I concentrate really hard so everything is extremely focused but I can't maintain it and I slip out of the astral area entirely. Astrally I think that reading is much less necessary since intentions and feelings flow through symbols and emotions so well, sort of like you mentioned. Dream reading is a whole different game entirely and I can't reliably find non-gibberish material to look at. I can absolutly read as far as capability wise in both settings though. I think the limiting factor is probably concentration in both cases.

I would like to hear back about your book results but from what I have read and done myself it is completely possible, but not very interesting ha. Once I'm astral traveling I want to travel around!

Goodluck

Astrally I think that reading is much less necessary since intentions and feelings flow through symbols and emotions so well, sort of like you mentioned. Dream reading is a whole different game entirely and I can't reliably find non-gibberish material to look at. I can absolutly read as far as capability wise in both settings though. I think the limiting factor is probably concentration in both cases.
Goodluck

So, its not the same as reading and enjoying your own personal interpretation of the book, but if it's information your seeking this should work just fine.

Good point.

It has been a while now sense I wrote this and I have learned a few things. Astral understanding is one thing, of course, learning to understand the meaning of what is there is more or less a straight forward afire. But I am inclined to think of language in the conventional sense as symbolic in its own right. It seems that if something was written then the way it was composed and the medium chosen are valid points to consider. Even given that the astral makes itself according to our limitations, and therefore written language is an expression of an underling "truth" best suited to our mind, I think that the expression is just as revealing as the "truth". It hints at a more constrained and therefore useful understanding. Understanding as apposed to knowledge, is less readily apply to ones own magick. Its like a gold brick: having much value one profits from its acquisition but it is hard to convert into usefully spent portions. Knowledge is much easier to "spend". It is my belief that the writing in dreams and the astral are a particular articulation of understanding which is easier for use to apply. Assuming that the limits of our own mind are what shapes the articulation which understanding is presented to use examining that articulation informs us about our limits, forewarned with both an understanding of "truth" and knowledge which we can apply, our efforts to strive past our limits become enhanced.

Concentration is a factor in this as it is in all things but for myself I find that I do not lack that way. Instead, it seems to be a spiritual lacking. Over the months sense I last wrote I have taken to a odd sort of Taoist practice wherein I concentrate my my spirit in the third eye area and strengthen it by feeding it refined pre-birth chi extracted from the kidneys. It is very slow but recently I have noticed some changes. First, was that I could stay in a spiritual frame of mind longer when not meditating. Following that I was able see rather than feel chi moving. More recently I have been able to read writing in my dreams. Lucidity is as happenstance is always been with me, but when I can direct the dream with enough care that I do not change the dreams substance (only affecting view and actions) I can read as clearly as if I was waking. I attribute much to the spiritual work I have done, but i also think that training a level of sensitivity or empathy and also having gained more stillness help immeasurably.

As to the book experiment, I confirmed my initial assumptions in so far that reading it twice so to speak made the second time around much quicker. Indeed some books lost much interest for me because their plots where either known or guest at too well.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Feb 21 2011, 06:35 PM

Interesting experiment, have heard that reading is difficult on the astral... also something about lights, turning lights on and off seems to be an issue.

Have you tried reading a book that you haven't read before and seeing just how much you could actually make out of it?

Interesting experiment, have heard that reading is difficult on the astral... also something about lights, turning lights on and off seems to be an issue.

Have you tried reading a book that you haven't read before and seeing just how much you could actually make out of it?

Indeed I have, and the first few time I tried it the text was mostly unintelligible, but I could make out the intent. Once I read the book in the waking world I was able to predict the plot and some passages felt like it was from a book I had forgotten that I read.

Indeed I have, and the first few time I tried it the text was mostly unintelligible, but I could make out the intent. Once I read the book in the waking world I was able to predict the plot and some passages felt like it was from a book I had forgotten that I read.

So basically, "reading" something cryptic in the astral THEN reading it in the real world would probably boost your grasp of the text, like x10....

So basically, "reading" something cryptic in the astral THEN reading it in the real world would probably boost your grasp of the text, like x10....

Yes, that would be an good way to put it.

I have not tried with anything "cryptic" so to speak, but the complex literary works and one book on existential philosophy I have tried follow that pattern. I perhaps should try it on something deliberately cryptic like a Hindu or Buddhist tantra written in twilight language. If my comprehension improves over prior efforts to make sense of that mess it will be a very useful discovery.


Has anyone else tried this yet? It would be nice to have a second person confirm this. I am never quite sure if I am dealing with something intrinsic to the astral or if it has more to do with me.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Feb 25 2011, 06:13 PM

Yes, that would be an good way to put it.

I have not tried with anything "cryptic" so to speak, but the complex literary works and one book on existential philosophy I have tried follow that pattern. I perhaps should try it on something deliberately cryptic like a Hindu or Buddhist tantra written in twilight language. If my comprehension improves over prior efforts to make sense of that mess it will be a very useful discovery.
Has anyone else tried this yet? It would be nice to have a second person confirm this. I am never quite sure if I am dealing with something intrinsic to the astral or if it has more to do with me.

Doubt its you, as said I've read that reading is a problem as you mention and its going to be considering that you're engaging your imagination whilst within your imagination.. can't say I've had much luck astral projecting otherwise and so can't comment.

By cryptic your comment is exactly what I meant, keep us in on the results, sounds like a fun exercise. Try the book of the dead, bound to be a blast, if you excuse the pun .lol.

I think the cliche 'A picture is worth a thousand words' describes better how the mind works. What is writing but an artificial representation of experience?

i cant even read there in my dreams pft (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)