Paradise On Earth, World As A Single Egalitarian Family Options

I believe that...It is possible to create a harmonious heavenly life on earth if we take following steps :-
(i) A prayer hall & a meditation centre in every 10 KMs radius area
(ii) School curriculam to be such that students rise above regional, linguistic, racial, religious, political, communal / caste and gender barriers
(iii) A world government
(iv) To convert existing armies into police force
(v) To dump all weaponries
(vi) To ensure food, clothing and housing for all
(vii) De-centralization of all powers
(viii) Free medical care for all
(ix) Emphasis on holistic life.

Durki, I think you might find people more willing to enter into discussion if you present your ideas in less of a dogmatic way. As a guide you will see that I have added 3 magic words in bold to the start of this post. - Mediocracy

This post has been edited by mediocracy: Sep 20 2005, 06:43 AM

Are not (iii) and (vii) rather at odds with each other.

Are not (iii) and (vii) rather at odds with each other.

They are apparently at odd but not actually if we install a world government whose purpose will be more to monitor & co-ordinate various activities of the world rather than enforce or dictate any thing. People sitting in the world government will be more like caring parents rather than stern policemen holding rods in their hands.

How very communist. I hope we have all learned our lessons from history...

(i) A prayer hall & a meditation centre in every 10 KMs radius area

I don't have a problem with this as long as they do not required a user to adhere to any particular faith and use of said facility is not mandated.

(ii) School curriculam to be such that students rise above regional, linguistic, racial, religious, political, communal / caste and gender barriers

Where do you find teaching staff who are not tainted with at least one of the traits you have listed?
Try as you might, I don't see how this could be possible.

(iii) A world government

Perhaps you trust government a bit too much. This is a bad idea. What happens when your government gets out of control (and they will) and the population has no means to protect themselves due to the unlimited resources and size of the state? Look around the governments of the day and you can already see the beginings of this.

(iv) To convert existing armies into police force
(v) To dump all weaponries

How do you have a police force with no weapons? I'm not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that weapons be taken from civilians only? This ties in to my comment on "World Government" as well. No thank you.

(vi) To ensure food, clothing and housing for all
(viii) Free medical care for all

I do hope you plan to pay for these things out of your own pocket. The only other way would be to enforce slave labor. None of us would like that very much.

(vii) De-centralization of all powers

What Mediocracy said...

(ix) Emphasis on holistic life.

This statement is slightly ambiguous. I'm assuming that you use holistic in it's dictionary sense and not to mean natural. I don't believe holism to suite every living person.

Greetings Durki (and others)!

I waffle back and forth between utopianism and social anarchy...
It may be that the points you listed would be very difficult to realize considering that GREED is presently in control. Nonetheless...it would take a huge raising of conciousness for human beings to come to grips with what they would be required to live the Utopian life.

Even within magical systems (hell...most magical systems), most are geared toward gaining control of some sort. Rule by committee has never lasted very long because somewhere along the way greed appears and what follows is either a dictatorship or a plutocracy. This includes communism AND democracy, etc. There will always be the top of the pyramid.

We should, therefore, strive to find ways toward our inner peace and exorcise our demons. Take time to read around the dogma (another word besides 'paradigm' that I'm beginning to dislike) and just do your part to help the dream.

Here's another cryptic statement: Paradise is where you find it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

Prophylactically-This is an Occult Forum, let's try to keep politics to The Fight Club, OK? - Mod Squad

But I (for one) am interested in the extent to which occult/magickal/spiritual practices inform and expand our socio-political outlook.

I often find that when people begin to work toward a view of the universe as a whole, they begin to find it easier to tolerate what's going on in their own backyard. In which case, perhaps there is a case for more public 'spiritual education'?

Mod Squad - if you have decided to make "owning" your statements such a hard and fast rule, perhaps it would be a good idea to put something in the Forum Guidelines to that effect? Just a suggestion.

(i) A prayer hall & a meditation centre in every 10 KMs radius area

I happened to live in a country with about 90% moslem, luckily most of them peaceful ones (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) They will love you durki, but I am still highly annoyed with the fact that they build mosques every 5 - 10 km and when they start shouting prayers with the loudspeaker for like 5 times a day so imagine the irritation when you're on the phone while they're shouting prayers. Everyone can do their prayers and meditation quitely at home.

(v) To dump all weaponries

uhmm, what if the martians attack us? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fear.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There will always be wars, conflicts and armies and weaponries as long as human ego exist.

(vi) To ensure food, clothing and housing for all
(vii) De-centralization of all powers
(viii) Free medical care for all

I am assuming you have not attend economic classes. Nothing is "free" in this world. I consider americans as an example, has a good standard of living where the goverment supports it's citizen, unlike many developing countries where beggars, woman and children are still roaming, sleeping in the street, knocking for small changes on your window at most busy traffic lights. If the goverment can afford to make a service like education and medical for free then you actually had paid it with your taxes. It is not free.

These are pretty much the ideals of the Muslim faith - one world government, good if it goes well, imagine the horrors if it is corrupt.

One should try and avoid blanket statements about what any given faith group 'aims' to do. There are a large number of secular moslems who would not like to live under a single world government. There are many secular christians who support free speach and a womens right to choice.

A lot of what is ascribed as moslem values actually seem to be cultural values. I am no expert on islam but it seems to me we hear dispoportionately from a narrow group and miss out on the wider cultural and religious dialogue.

Yes, my view is rather limited to those that I mixed with when I was a Muslim myself. I was generalizing to make a point.

Are not (iii) and (vii) rather at odds with each other.

They are apparently at odd but not actually if we install a world government whose purpose will be more to monitor & co-ordinate various activities of the world rather than enforce or dictate any thing. People sitting in the world government will be more like caring parents rather than stern policemen holding rods in their hands.

One world goverment sounds good in theory but very difficult to implement in many parts of the world.

Not all goverments able and want to sit and nurture their people like caring parents. In your word "to monitor & co-ordinate" is often used when you have a stable economy. Most people are like lambs, and often an iron fist goverment with a long term vision is required to move the country forward. Take China for example, they have the largest population in the world with lots of headaches to deal with and their current resources cannot afford the goverment to provide a better standard of living for all. To accumulate resources neccesary to go there and prosper, a firm, tactful and disciplined hands needed. Some extreme steps may also must be implemented such as capital punishments. In China, death penalty criminals, male and females were line up together against the wall by the red army and shot at the back of their heads at a close distance with what looks like to me as AK47 machine gun. Their families were also billed for the cost of the bullets.

Severe yes, but IMHO it can be effective although also create other opportunity cost, in exchange of what they considered as a better solutions such as lower crime rate, lower judistical and administration costs, etc. But with this kind of similar diciplines and other iron fist policies, China slowly began to economically become stronger and when the economy prosper, it's standard of living will also raise, where people can afford better education, better health system, better goverment policies and many other domino effects. There can be no advancement without destruction.

Political parties within goverments also has various personal and organisational interests they will prioritize above anything else. The people itself may currently be under-educated and many are still living below the poverty line. If the goverment take care of these poor people "now", they could be wasting valuable resources which may be much better invested in capital investments, cash cows and productive assets in the longer terms.

Yes off course, like in business, the people is the no.1 most valuable assets, but until they reach prosperity, only the qualified, valuable and productive ones will get the priorities, if not, there may be stagnation and saturation to the whole economy. As a metaphore, in war, you want to concentrate your most powerful resources together toward a single purpose, or you will be overrun by the enemy forces when the line spread too thin.

One world goverment is a highly complicated and delicate business to deal with. Have you tried running a "simple" company? Selecting the right person for the right position in my experience in one of the key of success to any business and there's many other micro and macro economic management factors closely linked to each other in order produce the final result/s. There's a lot to deal with such as choice of market segmentations, distribution channels, competitors and eliciting tactics and strategies, culture, politics and many other ever changing variables.

One world goverment is a lot easier said than done.

I am moving this topic to a more appropiate forum.

Some thinkers say that partyless democracy is ideal. All people on earth above certain age will vote to select the best candidate among various contenders for the post of World-President.
De-centralization will extend upto grass-roots level. Problems of any habitation will be settled locally by group of elders. By the way in my area upto nineteen seventies, when a major crime / dispute such as murder or molestation or unlawful act took place, no body went to police or court but instead elders numbering 5 or more than 5 gathered to resolve the issue amicably. IMHO.
I apologize for any offence caused by my beliefs.

Hello Durki,

I don't know if I would consider any democracy ideal, here is why... Within a democracy (in the truest sense) you essentially have the unwashed masses calling the shots. Problems arise from this type of government because at some point mob mentality will set in. Decisions will begin to be made based on emotion. Then you get riots and other social upheaval when things go against the beliefs of opposing groups. The democratic republic was devised in order to prevent this. Exactly how successful were they? For the sake of brevity I won't go into this to deeply and only say that there are still major problems. As far as having a party less democracy (I assume you speak of a democratic republic), I fail to see how the lack of parties would make things better. Could you elaborate? Also, you said:

De-centralization will extend upto grass-roots level.

I don't understand. Is the grass-roots level not decentralized by definition?

I'm not offended, I just disagree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

The idea of democracy is a good one, and normally the system would work, were it not for corruption, bribary and greed.
In theory the goverment is a small representation of the entire population, making decisions on behalf of the population. Only because it is easyer to govern a nation of millions this way.

These days the goverment seems to only represent the big corporations and themselves. The little man is often overlooked. This is the way almost everywhere. but especially in amerika, where a representative of the common folk does not have the funding for the media war required to run for president. A sad example of a system gone bad, there is no way for a wise non-capitalistic (wo)man to become president.

People do not even realise it, the problem has emerged so silently that most people are not aware of it. Most people view the goverment as their boss, someone they have to obey without asking why.


In the end these things are not realy important. If the basic necesitys are met, like food and housing, paradise can be found inside your own hearth.
True enlightened men rarely are whealthy, look at gandhi, or the buddha who renounced his own princehood, christ, various monks...
Life is harmonious werever people look into their hearths and operate on a basis of friendship and tolerance. Even in extremely poor countrys this happyness can be found. Everywhere were people are kind and love each other life IS utopia, sadly this is rarely the case.

Greed and materialism are the seeds of the ego that always grow into unhappines. It is never enough, the grass always seems greener on the other side for these poor fools. No system can prevent this, people have to want to search inside themselves for a deeper meaning to life.

A good system allows people to do this searching in a fairly stable environment, and for me my goverment does a rather good job, i cannot complain, yet...