Uniqueness, All Magicians are unique Options

Remember in magic ... no two magicians realities will be the same. What we perceive in our own unique reality is how the world around us reacts to our own consciousness and to our own 'magic'. Thus the resultant outcome of any working will always be different to each and every one of us.

What is perceived as fair, right, necessary, mandatory, unimportant for one magician may be so in his or her reality but it doesn't necessarily follow it will apply the same to another magician.

The only common/same/recurring variable between two magicians in everything is the visual reality which we all reside in ... the reality we call planet earth/the earth plane ... the interface which all human consciousness is connected to. The interface which has the visual and sensory appearance of being the same to all who are connected to it.

However, two magicians could evoke the SAME entity in exactly the SAME way; using the SAME ritual with the SAME tools;using the same evocations/banishings/invocations/whatever ... speaking the words exactly the same ... connecting with the same entity and asking the same thing of the entity ....

But the results can be totally different .... and often are.

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Thus, all rituals/spells/whatever could best be described as guidelines only ... outcomes could best be deemed as being unpredictable. We can only anticipate/expect a desired finale ... but we should be prepared for anything happening ...

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That is the true 'magic' of experience.

Then when you have a result and it is written in a journal you would be foolish to expect the exact same outcome the next time .... applying the same principle it is likely the unexpected will call at the door again.

!!!!

We are not unique.

We are all the same.

All preceived differences are a product of the ego.

However, two magicians could evoke the SAME entity in exactly the SAME way; using the SAME ritual with the SAME tools;using the same evocations/banishings/invocations/whatever ... speaking the words exactly the same ... connecting with the same entity and asking the same thing of the entity ....

But the results can be totally different .... and often are.

I completely agree! Under the basis that two practicing magicians of the exact same rite, etc,. cannot have the same emotions and mentality, which affect the rite.

mediocracy, though I do respect your belief on uniquesness, I must say that I cannot wrap my mind around it! It's like trying to think how big the Universe really is, it makes me brain hurt, lol. I wouldn't mind hearing further of this belief, it is something I'm very curious about, and would like to try and understand instead of just waiving it off.

Namaste

I agree with mediocracy on this one, we are all the same.

Infact, we are all a one dimensional dot, or less. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

However, we are unique in a way that we are all that same dot with different angels, which is meant to be, how else can that dot experience everything at the same time? (time is also an illusion on this point.)

So, without the ego, without being unique, we become one and therefor cease to exist in the physical sense atleast?

Is this the nirvana i've been hearing so much about? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(sorry if i'm a bit offtopic here now, not sure...)

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mmm.... I agree with Mediocracy to a degree .... we are identical on a soul/spirit level ...

But in human terms we are unique ... combinations and permutations of emotions etc which make up our individual ego ...

The casting of magic is undertaken on the human level ... it is undertaken by human incarnates who have ego ... therefore magic is governed by the uniqueness of the human ego ....

mediocracy, though I do respect your belief on uniquesness, I must say that I cannot wrap my mind around it! It's like trying to think how big the Universe really is, it makes me brain hurt, lol. I wouldn't mind hearing further of this belief, it is something I'm very curious about, and would like to try and understand instead of just waiving it off.

It probably deserves a thread of its own as it will drag this one rather (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif)

Merlin is correct that magical experiences are a reflection of the individual mage. All experience is a reflection of the individual. The true experience is filtered through the ego. The ego is illusion. We are not unique, it is the ego that fools us in to thinking we are and creates barriers around us.

This is a intelectual theory and is meaningless without experience. To experience the 'oneness' is the aim of much spiritual practice. This is why I no longer practice magick, it does not (for me) move me away from ego and towards oneness.

Training the mind to let go of ego (and by ego I mean the sense of individual cravings and clinging to desires) is very difficult. We like being in the midst of our own personal drama, even though this makes us unhappy. I have had a few brief experiences of the reduction (not elimination) of the ego and seen life in a whole new light. It is a hard path, and sometimes it feels like i'm falling backwards (like right now) but once you step on this path it is very hard to get off and go back.

Right now i'm in limbo, not feeling i'm making much progress and yet unable to go back to old ways.

I apologise to Merlin for 'hijacking' his thread. I will discuss further in another thread if that seems more appropriate.

No need to apologise ... it's not a hijacking ... you've made a very relevant point about the ego and trying to lose it ...

I 'reduced' my ego a few times too ... a path fraught with danger and trapdoors ... as I found that my 'seperate ego'/ego was aware what I was trying to do and the more I tried to reduce the ego ... the more it created cunning diversion which led me further away from the goal!!!

I have since given up ... and have decided that to live in this mad, crazy world and interact with others ... you must have the ego. I try to tether it ... and use it as it uses my spirit!!!!

It is possible to gain snippets of the oneness ... but as for having the oneness 24/7 until the day you die ... I think you need to be on a mountain/away from other humans/away from technology!

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in the end all this overthinking leads to nothing. reduction of the ego can not be philosophised. If you try to wrap your limited brain around it you will only get confused and delusional.
Experience is the only way, emptyness of the mind and forgetting about it al is an important part.

Release is the key to nirvana, letting go and just experiencing life like a careless spectator is another key. There are other keys, but thinking is not one of them.

forget about the mental construct what you define as the ego. Let the ego be, do not feed it by trying to understand it, do not feed it by trying to destroy it. Live life like an enfant, uncaring and free about such nonsense.

On occassion I have walked as a wide eyed child experiencing life as if for the first time. The raw unmediated beauty of it all fills one with a joyful sadness. To experience this 24/7 would be amazing. Yet if one could achieve such a thing (enlightenment) then one would not think it amazing, it would just be.

The distractions of modern life make this more difficult. I would hope that one does not have to be a hermit to be enlightened. In fact many of the enlightened go on to lead active lives teaching others rather than locked away in some far flung hermitage.

Hrmmm...personnally, I don't feel I need to let go of material wealth or physical representations and not be enlightened. I can experience that new born peace during any given situation if I really want too, but I dont, simply because I feel that it can be taken advantage of, and end up ruining my own life. So now I stick to only acquiring that peace during yoga and meditation, it maintains a nice healthy balance and works perfectly for myself.

I do have goals I am working towards, and letting go of them would only serve nothing but depair and regret for myself. Alot of people who practice towards Nirvana and ultimately pari-Nirvana, would look at me and tell me I am defeating the entire purpose of enlightenment. No, actually, I am not. Because to me, enlightenment is simply an understanding and deep respect for life around you, embracing the "good" and the "bad" being able to see all things from all angles, listening, respecting, and sharing. Being mindful is my key, not letting go of "ego".

I also don't believe in following a strict line of faith, I incorporate and mold to what fits Me, not what fits the creator or author.

But that's just me, lol.

Namaste

Interesting points all of you!

It just goes to show the uniqueness of the human ego ... and the individuality of magicians ...

Imagine if all of us on this thread were to all stand together in a room and perform the exact same ritual with the same tools and the same evocations ...

Judging by our philosophy of our replies on this thread ... is it not possible to see that no two of us would get the same reaction from that which we would summon???

Uniqueness perfectly illustrated ....!!!!

One oversoul but four quite different human egos!!!!

Love it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif)

the Joyful sadness happens when you start examining the joy, when you stop just enjoying it, when you question it and reject it.
The joy can be mind blowing at times, i have felt it too, and it ishard to deal with it.

Yesterday i was sitting in my room feeling like that. I have a huge cold, my sinusses where hurting, my head was banging.
I had foolishly tasted from some wine i was brewing, only 4 days after introducing the yeast. Thus that yeast bacteria was having fun inside me.
To top that of, i was so happy, undescribable happy, it was mind blowing. Yet it was ironic, since i was hurting all over my body. And i had to laugh at all of it.

The happynes is fun but also painfull, it is wrong to attach to it, wrong to desire it, wrong to question it.

Overthinking is never a good thing.
You do not have to be a hermit, you have to be a hermit of the mind. Blank the mind in meditation, if you do not think about problems, then these things will not exist for you. Deal with them as they stand before you, forget them completely otherwise. Forget them even when dealing with them, just act on them, do not think about them.
Wheter you hide from problems like a hermit, or you don't care about these problems and forget about them. The end result is the same, they do not longer dictate your life. Things you don't think about do not exist.

I once experienced that joy while making a french test i knew i was going to fail. I was sitting there, doing the best i could with the knowledge that i could never pass it. The joy lasted the rest of the day, and to a lesser extent the rest of the week. But at that moment it had its peak.

I was sober at all these experiences, i didn't take any medications or drugs. Not even while sick.

I believe that this experience of love and joy goes togheter with the act of letting go. these steps i have noticed.

• First i let go of all my worries and problems, realy breathe out and release the stress.
• Then i just see the world as if it where a play and i wasn't part of it, not even part of my body.
• Then i start feeling giddy, almost like high on hash, but more divine, higher.
• Then the joy starts, so much joy, and when you take a walk in the forest when the sun is shining at that point, wow.

Everything is so beautifull then, everything is, there are no words to desrcibe it. its like the love for a loved one, and that love, multiplied by a million.

When i first started experiencing thase things I thought i was going insane. But these days i just enjoy the ride while it lasts.



I believe each mage is unique in his experience of the world, unique in many ways.
but each individual is the same in many problems, visions, thoughts, desires.
The experience of this joy feeling is one where we are all the same. Everyone can experience it.
But some people never will, because they are just not interested in the spiritual life, that shows the uniqueness of each individual.
On many points we are unique, and on many points whe are exactly the same. So both statements are true.