The "Golden Seal" Help. Options

Alright, so in about two weeks, to the beginning of december I'm planning to go have the seal of asmoday, with the pentagram of solomon made on the other side at my local jewelry shop...Now, watching videos, and looking at shops , the disks are about 4"x4", and I refuse to buy a 4"x4" disk of 14kt gold plus engraving. SO, would it be acceptable to to have it made just around 1"x1"? Like a pendant? I know some people will just say you can use parchment, but if you're going to do something, might as well do it right ;-). I'm planning on having other sigils made, copper, silver, tin, etc, but since I'm no adept on goetic spirits, I figured I'd ask a place where there are. Thank you.

-Chris.

4" x 4" is rather ostentatious too. Plain paper would be fine IMO so long as the sentiments are true. You do not have to display the Seal in order for it to be active.

I'm sure paper would be fine, but personaly it wouldn't help any to put me in the frame of mind, which is one of the most important things...When I start something new I like to pay attention to details, then experiment, and strip details as I go along, so I guess you can see where I'm coming from. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Greetings!
The 1"X1" is OK! There is no need to break the bank...! Can you have all that detail inscribed in such a small area? Just keep in mind that you will have to trace over the inscription in order to simulate the inscription else you must do it yourself...The idea being that the seal is etched into ones mind...Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

This post has been edited by bym: Nov 5 2005, 03:53 PM

Bym, one of the people I hoped would answer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif). I'm sure it can fit, if not I'll go 1 1/2"x 1 1/2". Would you mind explaining what you mean by tracing over it?

-Chris.

Greetings!
Sure. When working with any sigil or figure it will always help that you 'fix' the sigil/figure in your head. You do this automatically when you inscribe the paten/tool with the sigil or, if a jeweler does this for you, you must 'trace' the figure (with the white handled knife, boline or finger, etc.) as if you were the one making the symbol. The same is true when you cast a circle. This is why premade objects have little effectiveness...you must 'enliven' them first. This is why I like to make all my own equipment. This is why parchment can work instead of the metallic talisman. The act of creating the design/figure gives it power. There are other ways to 'enliven' such premade tools with power/energy. Fixing them in your mind is just the beginning.
A small secret to Evocation is to become the divinity. There can be no hesitation on your part unless you want halfassed results! Do you understand what I've said here? 'To Know' is one of the tenants to Magical practice. Doubt can be very damaging in the wrong place. Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

Alright, I understand now. Believe me if it were up to me, I would've bought a plain gold disk, and done the engraving myself, but I wouldn't know how to do so, or get the tools, and practicing with gold, no thank you lol. I don't know personaly I just would've liked to do everything in detail, I mean first you downgrade from gold to paper, next think you know, I'm performing an evocation in a wifebeater, and boxerbreifs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) . But, I guess paper will have to do.

-Chris

Personally speaking I will only use what is required of the grimoire I'm working from, if the working requires gold I will only use gold. However most grimoires mention the use of genuine vellum or parchment for the construction of sigils etc. And in such cases I will only use the genuine item.

This post has been edited by Ekron: Nov 5 2005, 04:58 PM

Well, I'll be using the crowley goetia grimoire, but if anyone suggest I read a different grimoire, I'm open for suggestions.

-Chris

I recommend the Peterson version of the Goetia btw, closest to the original.
1" is just fine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I make gold seals out of 1" gold discs. I also sell 1", 1.5" and 2" gold discs for folks to engrave their own, as well as do engraving for people. However just getting a jewlery place to do it might be less expensive. The little booths in the mall often have good deals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I can etch a seal into a 1" disc but it does take talent, and one has to draw the design in pen first. A diamond point etching pen is excellent for this. They are manual so that you can get it exact. I also have and work with silver discs, copper, lead etc. etc. Most of my discs that I use and sell are 3" and they seem like the perfect size to me. My silver ones are 2" though and they work just fine. I have also etched seals onto other material that is even smaller then 1", and it works (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Paper sort of kind of works, but nothing like metal or parchment. What I will often do is call the being with a regular seal, and if we are going to continue to work together, or they deserve a really awesome reward I will make their seal with the appropriate metal, or the metal they preffer. If you haven't done this already, you might want to have the gold disc as a reward for Asmoday after the work is done.
Another option btw, for those who cannot afford $100 or more on gold seals, is to use a disc of wood or another metal and purchase 24K gold leafing and leaf it, I have done that will a few discs and they come out quite beautifully (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

Athena

I will check it out on amazon..As for the sigil, I was expecting to spend about 100-150, since it was to be engraved on both sides, I've checked out your site before, but didn't see any gold disks, well pictures anyway so I figured you weren't producing any at the moment. If you could be kind as to give me a quote for your gold disk, engraved on both sides, as well as a copper one, it would be appreciated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif). I try to make as many of the tools I used but for this there's no room for mistakes, and I'm really building impaired (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif) .

-Chris.

**Edit**
I'm sorry, I didn't state the size.. I Figured 2" would be a fair size. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by SangueDiNapoli: Nov 5 2005, 05:31 PM

The original Mathers/Crowley Goetia of 1904 called for the use of the metal gold to construct the seals for the kings. At the very least I would use parchment of calf's skin and yellow ink containing gold dust. Or use gold leaf on the parchment. I'm certain King Asmoday will appreciate the effort.

I have three different versions of the Goetia, one is a facsimile of Crowley's personal copies of 1904.

http://www.cadu.demon.co.uk/occultart/goetia/goetia.html

My copy is dedicated to the 11th spirit Guison. Expensive but so beautiful.

Another interesting version and much more affordable is edited by Josheph Peterson called "The Lesser Key of Solomon". It contains the five books of the Lemegeton.

In 2006 yet another version is due to be published by Golden Hoard Press as part of their sourceworks of ceremonial magic, "The Goetia of Dr Rudd: Angels and Demons".

Well I made a mistake due to hurried typing, lol. I have the liddell/mathers version with the Enochian in the back, and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

-Chris

**Edit**
Ekron, those are very nice..The reason I wouldn't buy something like that is because I like to write everything in my personal grimoire, so I don't have to go from book, to book, so if I were to buy something like that I know It wouldn't get as much daylight as my personal grimoire does. :-p

This post has been edited by SangueDiNapoli: Nov 5 2005, 05:55 PM

Chris I understand what you are saying it's just that I love books so very much, especially on the occult sciences. A personal grimoire is fine; many years ago I constructed one which I called the Red Myrrh, sadly it's long gone. I now use just a work book in which I write down the prayers, rituals, formulae, and various tables which I most often use.

I understand. Grimoires can be a bit unorganized, but I like that I put in effort and time to it...It has all my oil, lunar, elemental, astrologigal, etc correspondences, prayers, bible excerps, illustrations, rituals, etc...I've left blank about 40-50 pages for goetic work as I go along, seeing as goetic evocations take a bit more detail than elemental evocations I made sure I left out a nice big space for future studies, lol. Plus, a magickal journal asside.

-Chris

P.S. sorry if I've gotten a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif), I'm just making conversation until I get answered what I had asked. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I will check it out on amazon..As for the sigil, I was expecting to spend about 100-150, since it was to be engraved on both sides, I've checked out your site before, but didn't see any gold disks, well pictures anyway so I figured you weren't producing any at the moment. If you could be kind as to give me a quote for your gold disk, engraved on both sides, as well as a copper one, it would be appreciated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif). I try to make as many of the tools I used but for this there's no room for mistakes, and I'm really building impaired (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif) .

-Chris.

**Edit**
I'm sorry, I didn't state the size.. I Figured 2" would be a fair size. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well I can't do a 2" gold disc with designs on both sides for that little. However some jewlers might be able to who do a mold method (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I haven't ventured into molding yet, so I just buy premade gold discs and etch them.
The copper ones, engraved or etched on both sides I charge $45 for, they are 3".
That is one awesome looking version of the Goetia!
Btw, be sure to let us know how it goes with Asmoday (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Athena

Well, I decided to go Agares for the big first lol...To order the copper disk with the engravements, would I have to go to your site first, or order the disk, then PM you on what's to be engraved? well, you already know, but you know what I mean :-D...Then, if I have success with Agares (Keep trying until I do, if I don't), then from your disk I'll know the "Layout" if you will, and order a gold disk, and etch it myself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-Chris