Tools for evokation Options

Im new to goetic evokations, and I would just like to know what tools are need for sucess. heres what I have circle, triangle,robe,wand, sword. I made the circle, and the triangle myself, the sigils are made out of parchment written in doves blood ink. The wand I bought, the sword is ur tipical double edge sword. I blessed all my tools with holy water. Im not using any particular method, Im pretty much just "mixing and maching" as I go along. So is this good enough

A butter knife, sigils on notebook paper, and a trianle on the floor with a table and a mirror in the center would be good tools, too...So long as you know the meaning of the tools, you don't need every single thing...So one person's opinion, I think the tools you have will do perfectly fine.

-Chris.

Greetings!
Well............

I blessed all my tools with holy water. Im not using any particular method, Im pretty much just "mixing and maching" as I go along. So is this good enough ?

No.
You are not experienced enough to slapdash together things and expect to get results! You MAY have enough force of will to pull off some minor phenomena but that is hardly a satisfying Goetic experience!

Please, please, please! Read the material. Does it call for blessing the instruments with holy water? (where did you obtain holy water?) SanguinedeNapoli has the right idea about the tools (this also applies to the mindset) but, unfortunately, the ability of most people to 'switch gears' and view the 'butter knife' as any of the attendant knives in the Magicians setup, is on trial here. That is the reason why we have ascribed specific uses for each of the tools...to forgo the impression of toast when using the white handled knife (or any of the others).

Here is where I start getting abit rough... bear with me. So, you wanna Summon a Demon? The Goetics are the favored lot for this! They can also be the most perilous! They are (or can be) VERY subtle! Just because every wannabe mage goes straight for the Goetics doesn't mean that they are easy...or safe! If you had even read the material your first question wouldn't be 'what tools are needed for success..?' Sorry but this isn't some game to while away a boring Saturday afternoon! If that is what this is to you then please put away the Lemegeton and pick up some Gygax and AD&D! (Now that is some safe fun...but I digress) Evocation , IMHO, should NEVER be tried until one has learned some basic exercises FIRST! Learn, by heart, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP) and the Quabalistic Cross (QC). If these are not to your taste....please find some Auric strengthening exercises. Learn how to breathe. Try to open your senses to include the local Astral. Meditate on the Event (Evocation). Learn the proper consecration of the Tools of the Arte! Does your wand carry the proper inscriptions? Et cetera ad nauseum! If you really work at these things you will have a chance at becoming a Magician! (Learn what incenses will help facilitate materializatioms....and no, they aren't made from narcotic herbs...)

Look...I could write a book on this subject (almost did here!) but, hopefully, you got the drift... I wish you well and I hope that you become all you want to be! Good luck and remember,...practice, practice, practice! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

Your list of tools are good, but have you practiced magic before? Mixing and matching just whatever? Well think about this, if you went into the chemistry lab and just grabbed odd bottles and containers and mixed random things together in a large bucket how long do you think you would survive? Well you might get lucky and it be inert, you might get an interesting substance, then again you might produce something where the flames kill all nearby including yourself. Since you are just randomly mixing chemicals with your eyes closed sort of thing. However if you were to get 4 years, or even 2 years of chemistry training so that you knew which was what, what all the funny little symbols on the containers meant, and how each mixes with each other, well then you would have some very favorable results. Same with magic.

Athena

Im not using any particular method, Im pretty much just "mixing and maching" as I go along. So is this good enough

Sure it is. I've never actually used any ritual methods to evoke entities. I just focus on their energy and make a strong connection to it (I also draw the energy to me.. which I think is what actually does it). They usually come pretty quickly after that. Your results are determined by your personality, mostly. Are you worth their time (i.e. have some semblance of personal power)? Are you interesting? Boring? Dogmatic or pedantic?

Common sense would have it that you make sure that you have defined personal boundaries. I've never had an entity do something contrary to what I've asked it (provided that I was nice about it.. and it was reasonable).

So to recap: If you're a nice, interesting, sincere person who is willing to say "cut it out", then you should have the time of your life.

Greeting Moonburn!
Ah.... we disagree! You may be a natural at this stuff...but most are not. Your casual referencing to Paimon alerted me. Paimon is a Goetic 'king' as it were. Mostly, demons are not that interested in humans unless you have something they want. Generally, as a newbie, you won't have anything really worthwhile...with a couple of exceptions...one being that you have an innate gift for channeling or materializations or two, that alot of the probability threads leading away from you converge with the potential of being utilized down the line. Demons usually stay away from magicians because they end up being used by such and are therefore, something to be avoided. When one becomes proficient in magic then one becomes more desireable to demonic entities (as tools/conveniences). Your experiences with Paimon point in the direction of useful. OR, that you have dedicated your life to Demonalatry (or similar). Priests/esses of demons get preferential treatment. IMHO, of course. (go on newbie...you don't need protection...or a circle...or anything! Asmodeus will be glad to give you the mental fortitude you should be developing on your own! He'll protect you! Why not start with a succubus/incubus? Piece of Cake! Why bother with all that boring work...?)
Demonic Evocation is not Fluffy Bunnies! Wake Up! Don't get me wrong...a positive attitude is a great plus but run-of-the-mill psychology about personal boundaries is not enough!

Sure it is. I've never actually used any ritual methods to evoke entities. I just focus on their energy and make a strong connection to it (I also draw the energy to me.. which I think is what actually does it). They usually come pretty quickly after that. Your results are determined by your personality, mostly.

And, pray tell, where did you hear about evocation and energy work? The 'focus' and the 'connection'? The tools used by magicians ARE the physical embodiment of the will and the focus! As you become more comfortable with your own abilities then the need for material things is significently reduced! Look up the word 'ritual'....you use ritual every time you gather your will and focus. It's a series of mental steps that you perform to get the desired results. 'Make a strong connection..' is a ritual. It may not be written in the Lemegeton but the inference is there. There are many different ways to Evocation...as well as Invocation.

Trying to assess the ability level of the querent and give appropriate responses to said questions is something that requires a more thoughtful approach.

Bym,

Hello!

It appears that we have drastically different customs, when it comes to this. I get overwhelmed when responding to large, involved posts. So please bear with me while I split this up into manageable parts. I'll try to respond within the context of your reply.

Your casual referencing to Paimon alerted me. Paimon is a Goetic 'king' as it were. Mostly, demons are not that interested in humans unless you have something they want

I first started working with Paimon when I introduced my roommate to him a few months back. She and he really hit it off and I've sort of been his acquaintance (or tool) ever since. He is indeed a King, in terms of authority and out-and-out power. But it's usually the most dangerous and risky entities that can help you the most. It's true that they're looking for something in return, but I wouldn't expect any less from anyone. I believe that the whole of the spirit world acts like that. At least it has, from my experience. It just seems like a "fact of nature", ya know? I know that you were implying a manipulative self-interest in your response- so let me address that, as well. The only time I have found entities to have this kind of streak is when they didn't belong to a "community", of sorts. The entities in the Goetia seem to be lone wolves (as far as I'm concerned, anyway...), as it were. I consider it nothing more (or less) than shrewd businessmanship. Yes, I'll admit that there is an element of danger there. To me, sincerity implies that you are aware of what you want. I've found that smart, interesting, personally powerful people tend also to be very sincere. In short, keep it a professional business relationship and you'll be okay.

It might be intersting to note here, that I have found all variety of entities to behave in just this way. From Deities to Angels to Fae to Elementals (a lesser shock, I'm sure). They all behave much in the same way as we do. They can be petty, moody and vindictive. They can also be loving, stimulating and immensely helpful. My girlfriend once said that we got it right when we said that we were made in their image... what we got wrong was what their image entailed.

Generally, as a newbie, you won't have anything really worthwhile...with a couple of exceptions...one being that you have an innate gift for channeling or materializations or two, that alot of the probability threads leading away from you converge with the potential of being utilized down the line.

I am of the belief that you either have the potential or you don't. Not so much in a polar way, but in an exponential way. Exponential, in that we posess different factors of growth with different things. It's the old axiom that some people are just better at things than other people. That's where your exceptions come in (except that I see them as one and the same... the difference being that one is more manifest than the other). If you didn't have the potential and you had all your ducks in a row, then you wouldn't be messing with this stuff in the first place.

Demons usually stay away from magicians because they end up being used by such and are therefore, something to be avoided. When one becomes proficient in magic then one becomes more desireable to demonic entities (as tools/conveniences). Your experiences with Paimon point in the direction of useful. OR, that you have dedicated your life to Demonalatry (or similar). Priests/esses of demons get preferential treatment. IMHO, of course.

I'm going to skip this part, because I think that I already touched on it earlier. If you'd like me to respond to it, then I would have no problem doing so.

However:

go on newbie...you don't need protection...or a circle...or anything! Asmodeus will be glad to give you the mental fortitude you should be developing on your own! He'll protect you! Why not start with a succubus/incubus? Piece of Cake! Why bother with all that boring work...?)
Demonic Evocation is not Fluffy Bunnies! Wake Up! Don't get me wrong...a positive attitude is a great plus but run-of-the-mill psychology about personal boundaries is not enough!

The "system" that I work with is a sink or swim method. Either you're powerful enough to handle it or you aren't. If you aren't, then you don't have any business dealing with entities in the first place. This comes back to having inherent talent. Incidentally, whether or not Asmodeus assists you with spiritual growth or protection is up to the person's discretion( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ).

I agree with you on one thing. Why bother with boring work? If you don't have it at the inception, then it isn't in your nature to use it. If you have the talent, then you'll have been using it all along. It will already be developed and strong enough. Spiritual exercises, in terms of my personal system, are middlemen that interfere with experiential learning. In analogy, tribal peoples didn't have to run an hour on a tedious treadmill to stay fit. They got all the "exercise" they needed from life itself. They were "fit" because it was within their nature to be so- and it manifested thusly. The same is with the prospective mage. IMHO, of course.

And, pray tell, where did you hear about evocation and energy work? The 'focus' and the 'connection'? The tools used by magicians ARE the physical embodiment of the will and the focus! As you become more comfortable with your own abilities then the need for material things is significently reduced! Look up the word 'ritual'....you use ritual every time you gather your will and focus. It's a series of mental steps that you perform to get the desired results. 'Make a strong connection..' is a ritual. It may not be written in the Lemegeton but the inference is there. There are many different ways to Evocation...as well as Invocation.

Where did I hear about evocation and the like? When I was looking for words to put to concepts that I've experienced all along. I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. To me, evocation is to non-corporeals what phones and yelling "hey! get your butt over here" is to us. It's just an action. Ritual is highly symbolic to me- and a whole other creature, in my mind. You can ritually say "hey! get your butt over here", but I don't think that it's exclusive to that activity.

Trying to assess the ability level of the querent and give appropriate responses to said questions is something that requires a more thoughtful approach.

I agree. I apologize for not fleshing out my post, initially.

This post has been edited by moonburn: Dec 19 2005, 03:06 PM

Greetings!
In response to your response....
I see where you are coming from. I think that we have very divergent views of the subject. Let's try and pick this up with either another thread or by PM. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Ok well here is how the ritual is going to go down.

-Starting by lighting my candeles and storax incense, and giving my offering of fresh oranges and strawberries.
-then the QC,LBRP,QC,LBRH,QC,LBRP,MPR,then the first Conjuration and see where it goes from there.

The Conjurations are translated by Samuel Leddell MacGregor Mathers.

Ok well here is how the ritual is going to go down.

-Starting by lighting my candeles and storax incense, and giving my offering of fresh oranges and strawberries.
-then the QC,LBRP,QC,LBRH,QC,LBRP,MPR,then the first Conjuration and see where it goes from there.

The Conjurations are translated by Samuel Leddell MacGregor Mathers.

Put out offerings then banish them with the LBRP 3 times?

Athena

Bym,

Hello!

It appears that we have drastically different customs, when it comes to this. I get overwhelmed when responding to large, involved posts. So please bear with me while I split this up into manageable parts. I'll try to respond within the context of your reply.

Your casual referencing to Paimon alerted me. Paimon is a Goetic 'king' as it were. Mostly, demons are not that interested in humans unless you have something they want

I first started working with Paimon when I introduced my roommate to him a few months back. She and he really hit it off and I've sort of been his acquaintance (or tool) ever since. He is indeed a King, in terms of authority and out-and-out power. But it's usually the most dangerous and risky entities that can help you the most. It's true that they're looking for something in return, but I wouldn't expect any less from anyone. I believe that the whole of the spirit world acts like that. At least it has, from my experience. It just seems like a "fact of nature", ya know? I know that you were implying a manipulative self-interest in your response- so let me address that, as well. The only time I have found entities to have this kind of streak is when they didn't belong to a "community", of sorts. The entities in the Goetia seem to be lone wolves (as far as I'm concerned, anyway...), as it were. I consider it nothing more (or less) than shrewd businessmanship. Yes, I'll admit that there is an element of danger there. To me, sincerity implies that you are aware of what you want. I've found that smart, interesting, personally powerful people tend also to be very sincere. In short, keep it a professional business relationship and you'll be okay.

It might be intersting to note here, that I have found all variety of entities to behave in just this way. From Deities to Angels to Fae to Elementals (a lesser shock, I'm sure). They all behave much in the same way as we do. They can be petty, moody and vindictive. They can also be loving, stimulating and immensely helpful. My girlfriend once said that we got it right when we said that we were made in their image... what we got wrong was what their image entailed.

Generally, as a newbie, you won't have anything really worthwhile...with a couple of exceptions...one being that you have an innate gift for channeling or materializations or two, that alot of the probability threads leading away from you converge with the potential of being utilized down the line.

I am of the belief that you either have the potential or you don't. Not so much in a polar way, but in an exponential way. Exponential, in that we posess different factors of growth with different things. It's the old axiom that some people are just better at things than other people. That's where your exceptions come in (except that I see them as one and the same... the difference being that one is more manifest than the other). If you didn't have the potential and you had all your ducks in a row, then you wouldn't be messing with this stuff in the first place.

Demons usually stay away from magicians because they end up being used by such and are therefore, something to be avoided. When one becomes proficient in magic then one becomes more desireable to demonic entities (as tools/conveniences). Your experiences with Paimon point in the direction of useful. OR, that you have dedicated your life to Demonalatry (or similar). Priests/esses of demons get preferential treatment. IMHO, of course.

I'm going to skip this part, because I think that I already touched on it earlier. If you'd like me to respond to it, then I would have no problem doing so.

However:

go on newbie...you don't need protection...or a circle...or anything! Asmodeus will be glad to give you the mental fortitude you should be developing on your own! He'll protect you! Why not start with a succubus/incubus? Piece of Cake! Why bother with all that boring work...?)
Demonic Evocation is not Fluffy Bunnies! Wake Up! Don't get me wrong...a positive attitude is a great plus but run-of-the-mill psychology about personal boundaries is not enough!

The "system" that I work with is a sink or swim method. Either you're powerful enough to handle it or you aren't. If you aren't, then you don't have any business dealing with entities in the first place. This comes back to having inherent talent. Incidentally, whether or not Asmodeus assists you with spiritual growth or protection is up to the person's discretion( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ).

I agree with you on one thing. Why bother with boring work? If you don't have it at the inception, then it isn't in your nature to use it. If you have the talent, then you'll have been using it all along. It will already be developed and strong enough. Spiritual exercises, in terms of my personal system, are middlemen that interfere with experiential learning. In analogy, tribal peoples didn't have to run an hour on a tedious treadmill to stay fit. They got all the "exercise" they needed from life itself. They were "fit" because it was within their nature to be so- and it manifested thusly. The same is with the prospective mage. IMHO, of course.

And, pray tell, where did you hear about evocation and energy work? The 'focus' and the 'connection'? The tools used by magicians ARE the physical embodiment of the will and the focus! As you become more comfortable with your own abilities then the need for material things is significently reduced! Look up the word 'ritual'....you use ritual every time you gather your will and focus. It's a series of mental steps that you perform to get the desired results. 'Make a strong connection..' is a ritual. It may not be written in the Lemegeton but the inference is there. There are many different ways to Evocation...as well as Invocation.

Where did I hear about evocation and the like? When I was looking for words to put to concepts that I've experienced all along. I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. To me, evocation is to non-corporeals what phones and yelling "hey! get your butt over here" is to us. It's just an action. Ritual is highly symbolic to me- and a whole other creature, in my mind. You can ritually say "hey! get your butt over here", but I don't think that it's exclusive to that activity.

Trying to assess the ability level of the querent and give appropriate responses to said questions is something that requires a more thoughtful approach.

I agree. I apologize for not fleshing out my post, initially.

I'm about as LHP and free form (and dangerous according to some) ritual (or lack thereof) as it gets with the Goetic entities, and I would still say you should be listening to BYm and taking his advice a LOT more!

Athena