Necronomicon BooksNec Simon Version / other versions, Where can I find it? Different type Nec books. Options

Or did Simon use (steal) some of Dee's idea's? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evil2.gif) Redhand

Or did Simon use (steal) some of Dee's idea's? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evil2.gif) Redhand

Greetings
The question is open I never seen it listed in bibliographies in books available in the 70's and as the MS is in england how did Simon come across it?

Nebo

This post has been edited by nebo82: Oct 23 2006, 09:53 PM

Greetings
The question is open I never seen it listed in bibliographies in books available in the 70's and as the MS is in england how did Simon come across it?

Nebo

Greetings, It is a good question, 1# Simon was a student of magick. occult, and religion since the mid-1960s and before his so called 1984 disappearance. #2 He allegedly conducted private classes for the N.Y. OTO with a focus on "Enochian" magick, Afro-Caribian, and Owandering bishops. The point may be taken that he was very familiar with Dee's ideas. There is no doubt that this is a very effective system, but knowledge is power.The fakes Inside the Nec. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif) Redhand

This post has been edited by redhand: Oct 24 2006, 04:35 PM

The way I understand it, all known versions of the Necronomicon are hoaxes. The Simon one is a very well researched and executed one, but a hoax nonetheless.

That having been said:

I have both the Simon and the Hay versions, along with the 'R'lyeh Text' book 2/appendix. Of the two, the Hay one is a joke. The Simon one, whilst fake, WORKS. Dunno why, but I have found this to be the case. Probably because people have been trying to summon the Simon entities for the last thirty years or so, and basically created them. That's my theory anyway.

Folks:
I really dont know why people keep connecting the Simon Necronomicon with Lovecraft, as he has little or nothing to do with it.. He possible heard about its name and though it was cool and incorporated it into his Horror stories.

I however first got interested in sumerian/babyonian mythology before buying the Nec in the 80's. At that time it was hard to get tablet translations and those that I read were incomplete and broken, hard to keep the flow of the story line going. I found the Necronomicon amusing at the time and did little with it other than use it as reference to look up sumerian gods and demons in the literature. I now take it a lot more seriously.

So far I have found nothing contradictory between the Nec and the actual tablet translations. The gods are the same, the incantations are the same, the ceremonies are the same, the colors of ladder of light seem to agree with the colors of the steps of the zigurraths of Harran, etc.

The points of contention might be the whole idea of a 'watcher' or guardian angel. Well, that is also well attested in incantations as 'may a friendly spirit, a friendly guardian stand at my side'.

The other big point of contention are the sigils of the 50 names. But then the Nec says 'the chaldeans were imperfect in their knowledge' and 'take what I give you here and discover the rest'. So the existence of sigils is not completely inconsistent with the extant tablets. Regarding pentagrams, I have found reproductions of tablets bearing heptagrams (apparently organizing the 7 planets on the tips of the stars, etc) so I dont doubt a pentagram (the Arra) exists in some tablet reproduction. Also, not all has survived the passage of time. Tablet KAR44 (see the tintirbabylon site) lists about 50 texts that a magician should know to be a (babylonian) magician, only a few have survived. A specially tantalizing one was on 'sigils to be made of flour' who knows what it contained..

So it is completely irrelevant if it was a 900 year old greek manuscript written by a well researched greek cleric, or if it was a well researched 1980's New York creation. As long as the incantations are the same as those used for 1000's of years, as long as the gods are those that were worshipped for 1000's of years, as long as the ceremonies are the same used for 1000's of years there is power in them.
(Harran ws destroyed ~1000 AD, the last bastion of sumerian worship, as it had temples of nannar, Ishtar, Shamas etc. The religion started ~ 3000 BC so it pretty much spanned 4000 years)

Now, sumerian magic influenced the babylonians, akkadians, assyrians, and major portions of the bible and hebrew mythology, and by extension christian demonology and names and powers of angels etc. So it stands to reason that there will exist some commonality between sumerian/babylonian religion (the Nec) and the enochian/christian invocations.

I find it interesting that the sumerians were able to keep time (in 'berus' or double hours, 6 hours to the day and 6 hours to the night) by means of 36 different stars rising at different places in the horizon, the points of the compass called 'winds' indicating wind direction. Along the way 12 hours became 24 hours, 36 winds could have become 72 (as the 72 wise men, etc) or it could be that the 36 wids became the 30 winds of the enochian system. Who knows? The point I'm making is that is more likely that the Nec (sumerian mythology) influenced the enochian system and not the other way around.

My two cents.

Traveller

P.S: Has any one have information on the 36 tables of Soyga used by Dee? I have tried to find info on them without much success.

So it is completely irrelevant if it was a 900 year old greek manuscript written by a well researched greek cleric, or if it was a well researched 1980's New York creation. As long as the incantations are the same as those used for 1000's of years, as long as the gods are those that were worshipped for 1000's of years, as long as the ceremonies are the same used for 1000's of years there is power in them.
(Harran ws destroyed ~1000 AD, the last bastion of sumerian worship, as it had temples of nannar, Ishtar, Shamas etc. The religion started ~ 3000 BC so it pretty much spanned 4000 years)Traveller

Methinks this is the crux of the matter. In most other religous texts, this isn't even a consideration. For instance, despite not having the original autographs, no one states that the Christian scriptures are "fake" because they use a version translated in the '70's (or the 1600s for that matter).

So, if, as you stated, "the incantations are the same as those used for 1000's of years, as long as the gods are those that were worshipped for 1000's of years, as long as the ceremonies are the same used for 1000's of years ", then the Simon Nec is as valid as any other book on the subject.

A lot of people like to contend that it can't be the real Nec, because such a "dread book" hardly makes for a paperback. So what, it isn't boung in human flesh and written in blood? So, it's not bound in leather and pure sterling silver on parchment? Again, no one claims that the "gift and award" bibles you see on bookshelves that are paperbacks printed on newsprint are fakes because they are inexpensive.

A lot of the criticisms of the Simon Nec seem to be of the "we don't have any real evidence that it's a fake, so we're going to bring up non-issues and pretend they prove our point" vein.

Folks:
I
So far I have found nothing contradictory between the Nec and the actual tablet translations. The gods are the same, the incantations are the same, the ceremonies are the same, the colors of ladder of light seem to agree with the colors of the steps of the zigurraths of Harran, etc.

Greetings
One big problem is the identity of NINIB also called ADAR some say it's a misinterpretation of NINURTA but he was listed in M.Jordan's "Encyclopedia of the Gods" as a God of thunderstorms were as NINIB is the Lord of hunters and of strength.
In what tablet dos NINIB appear ?

Nebo

There is no doubt that this is a very effective system, but knowledge is power.The fakes[/url] Inside the Nec. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif) Redhand

There is no grimoire or system which does not have dubious origins of some kind.

Hi, enclosed is a praise ot Nibib:

Greetings
One big problem is the identity of NINIB also called ADAR some say it's a misinterpretation of NINURTA but he was listed in M.Jordan's "Encyclopedia of the Gods" as a God of thunderstorms were as NINIB is the Lord of hunters and of strength.
In what tablet dos NINIB appear ?Nebo

From the royal library of Arshubanipal in Nineveh, 7th century BC, translated by L.W.King, in 'Babylonian Magic and sorcery', 1896, London, Tablets K2487, K2502, K2591, Prayer addressed to Nibib:

O mighty son, first born of Bel !
Powerful, perfect, offspring of Eshara,
Who art clothed with terror! who art full of fury!
O Utgallu (?) whose onslaught is unopposed!
Mighty is (thy) place among the great gods!
In Ekur, the house of decisions, exalted are thy heads
and Bel thy father has granted thee
that the law of all the gods thy hand should hold!
Thou judgest the judgement of mankind!
Thou leadest him that is without a lider, a man that is in need!
Thou holdest the hand of the weak, thou exaltest him that is not wrong!
The body of the man that to the Lower World has ben brought down thou dost restore!
From him that sin possesses, the sin dost thou remove!
Thou art quick to favour the man with whom his god is angry!
O, Ninib, prince of the gods, a hero art thou!

a few more lnes follow... I changed the I with an accent mark to an E in the above. Ninib is transiterated with the characters NIN.IB. There is a possibility that UT.GAL.LU might be another name for Ninib. Note Bel in this case is Enlil.

Another book indicates that in some of the oldest traditions, Ninurta, the warrior god son of Enlil, victor over asakku demons and various monsters. So it is possible that the later babylonian Ninib and Ninurta are the same. The 'Arrow Star' or Sirius was associated with him, and here is described a purification ritual to Ninurta

Before the Arrow star you sweep the roof (and) sprinkle pure water; you scatter juniper in the censer on thornwood coals, you ibate beer, you kneel, you draw a curtain, you heap up flour. You purify the man with censer and torch and holy water and between the curtain you let him stand on garden plants and let him lift his hands. You recite this incantation three times, while you recite (this) he shall kneel and (then) speak everything which occupies his mind and the wath of his god and goddess will be dissolved, the evil magic which was made will be dissolved.

From 'Witch craft and Magc in Europe, biblical and pagan societies'.

'Devils and evil spirits of Babylonia' contains numerous prayers calling out Ninib:

I am the sorcerer-priest of [EA]
I am the magician of Eridu,
.... lines 131-138 much broken ....
The threshold .....
Unto the house on entering....
Shamash (is) before me,
SIn (is) behind (me),
Nergal (is) at (my) right hand,
Ninib (is) at my left hand;
When I draw near unto the sick man,
when I lay my hand on the head of the sick man,
May a kindly spirit, a kindly guardian stand at my side

It goes on..

One problem though is that at leat one incantation names a series of gods and names are given and both Ninib and Adad are listed:
By Ninib, son of Esharra, mayest thou be exorcised!
several lines later: By Ninib mighty warrior of Bel, mayest thou be exorcised!, but later 'By Adad, the lord of goodly sound mayest thou be exorcised' So it seems that Adad and Ninib are two different entities. ADAD is shown as DINGIR-NI in sumerian and 'ilu Adadi' in akkadian. I need to find more infor on this and on ADAD vs. ADAR.

But then, over thousands of years, and after a few civilizations were overun (sumerian, then akkadian, then etc.) the names and stations of the gods change. One interesting thing is the multitude of NIN- names in the oldet sumerian myths, given that it means Lady of.. For example the Nec calls Nin-ghizida the 'lady of the magic wand', although most texts identify him as male. I think this is due to the extreme patriarchical semitic society, so after semitic tribes overran babylonia (like the Assyrians), prior goddesses etc were eventually identified as male.

So who nows? maybe NIN.IB and NIN.UR.TA where originally amazonian warrior chicks ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (no offense intended).

Thanks for your post you got me intereste on ADAR, and so far I have not found him on my books. I'll keep looking...

Traveller

This post has been edited by Traveller: Oct 25 2006, 12:29 AM

There is no grimoire or system which does not have dubious origins of some kind.

True so True

I certainly suggest that you read the Necronomicon. It is an excellent book. Although, you say you are very new to all this, and perhaps you'd be best off not trying anything in it at first. But it's still worth reading. There's an online version as well as a paperback version in bookstores that's only $8 or so.

I had my wife bring back a copy of this Necronomicon from Turkey. She could only find one copy. All of the stores were sold out. Must be pretty popular over there.

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This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Dec 23 2006, 02:01 PM

Pretty damn cool dude! I cant read a lick of Turkish but I would still lick to get ahold of one some time--maybe do some of the rites in Turkish, as U have stated before there are resemblances between Turkish and Sumerian.

Laterz....

Greetings Brother Eabatu,

My wife says some of the words are identical and some of the words are similar with identical meanings. I thought perhaps it would be a nice amulet to have a version in Turkish. I would like to get a copy in Chinese also. It should be hard to get the Nec in a different language as it is a copyright violation to sell these inside of the United States.

Hi, i have a few versions of the necronomicon, including the spellbook, on my computer. Well the problem is that the book in the original hardware print, that i found on amazon has around 220 pages. mine version has about 147. and the spellbook has only 31 pages. Does anybody know a link where i can download the full version? If any of you have one, on your computer can you please send it to me? just upload it and post the link to this forum. tnx

Hi, i have a few versions of the necronomicon, including the spellbook, on my computer. Well the problem is that the book in the original hardware print, that i found on amazon has around 220 pages. mine version has about 147. and the spellbook has only 31 pages. Does anybody know a link where i can download the full version? If any of you have one, on your computer can you please send it to me? just upload it and post the link to this forum. tnx

Greetings
You may have it ,doc ,rtf and pdf don't always mach the pageing of the the printed version.

Nebo

Greetings
You may have it ,doc ,rtf and pdf don't always mach the pageing of the the printed version.

Nebo

Yeah i know but i'm like about 100 pages short!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif)

Yeah i know but i'm like about 100 pages short!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif)

greetings
Well there are few at the main SM web site and membership is well worth it .In fact SM is a Major resource for all occult studies.

nebo

I also agree with smasher to write the Nec on your own handwriting. This will give it more of yourself to the book and it will be bound to you even on the upcoming lifes.

That is IF they can write legibly enough to read it later especially by dim candlelight. However I full agree with you about writing it in your own hand. There is something that actually stabilizes any sort of spell, rite or ceremony when you copy it out into your own book by your own hand. Even if it's from a mass marketed product like this or a pdf, you'll be surprised at how much more you get out of the working. It's an investment of sorts and frankly I think way too many wannabes try to step around the investment aspect. Essentially they want results with little to no effort. Would that the cosmos worked that way!

This also apply when you are making the tools it is better to make then instead of buy them. When you make something from scratch it has you energy, your seal it is yours with all the defects, wisdom and power. It will be like putting your own signature to that specific item.

Agreed. However there are those who have neither the skill, time, nor the place to make a tool. Some folks who live in urban high rise apartments or condos are kind of stuck because if they begin hammering on an anvil and setting up a furnace with bellows to make their sword, well,... lol

Whether you have the wherewithal to actually MAKE your tools or you buy them from someone who can make them for you, the bottom line is they need to be consecrated and then bonded with by the blood, sweat and tears of the practitioner who will be using them. To spend the money to buy a Solomonic sword and then never use it is quite silly unless of course you're an armchair magicKian who sits pontificating on a subject not doing any actual workings.

Folks, if you don't have a handwritten grimoire of your own, why not create one? Hell even a 3 ring binder with hand written copies of spells, rites and ceremonies is far better than just printing out a pdf or cracking open a book and doing it that way. Put some valid effort into it and you'll see better results.

All the Best,

This post has been edited by MOLOCH: Feb 12 2007, 10:03 AM

Does anyone know were may i find "the gates of the necronomicon" by simon in spanish?
Also do i have to copy the nec on a big black book or can it be copied on a notebook for a example?

This post has been edited by Emi: Mar 3 2007, 12:05 PM

Hi Guys i have question and i need someone to answer me :
I Downloaded two books of Necronomicon ( Simon ) & ( Fr. Montague ) ....... So which one is the right one and which one is the original copy ???????

I like and use the Simon edition. I've never heard of the other one.

I think don't quote me on this that the majority of the people on the forum seem to use the SIMON. Having never heard of the other. Do you have a link for the Fr. Montague version. It would be atleast an interesting read.

I think don't quote me on this that the majority of the people on the forum seem to use the SIMON. Having never heard of the other. Do you have a link for the Fr. Montague version. It would be atleast an interesting read.

You are correct. From time to time there are discussions of other Necronomicon versions but for the most part the people who frequent this area of sacred-magick work with the Simon Necronomicon.

Hi Guys i have question and i need someone to answer me :
I Downloaded two books of Necronomicon ( Simon ) & ( Fr. Montague ) ....... So which one is the right one and which one is the original copy ???????

Greetings
Who is this "Fr. Montague " is his "Necronomicon" just one more copy and paste job I seen so many made up necros in my time just put parts of the hay turner simon in to one book and call it the
"Real Necro" got a link let me see it ok

Nebo

Thanks Guys for your reply and here is the link to the book :http://churchofsatan.tv/pdf/necronomicon2.pdf
Hope you to find the right one and tell me about it
bye (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Someone asked how Simon came across it. In all honesty, whoever said he actually had a true manuscript? He could have had knowledge about Lovecraft's works, Chaldean Sorcery, and Sumerian Mythology. He could have then just written out the manuscript himself. That, or there could have never been one. The only problem with assuming such things, even that it is a fake, is that you are crossing out/ dismissing another viewpoint as false. The origins of the Necronomicon (Simon edition) are dubious to say the least, but, just as someone else said before me, what old grimoire doesn't?

Umm, Simon states in the Necronomicon and also in Dead Names how he was loaned the MS. Soas for the who said Simon used a MS--it was Simon who said it.

Umm, Simon states in the Necronomicon and also in Dead Names how he was loaned the MS. Soas for the who said Simon used a MS--it was Simon who said it.

I know that he states it in his book(s) that he obtained and translated the papers, but so, too , did Dr. August Priesack when he supposedly "found" the diaries of Adolf Hitler; Simon obviously could have made the manuscript up, then had it translated, or (the more probable case) he could have made up obtaining and translating it and just immediately published it. Again, the only problem with these theories is that, taken too dogmatically, they force us to completely omit what also might be the truth: that he really did obtain a manuscript and had it translated.

This post has been edited by Kranos: Jun 23 2007, 10:23 AM

I know that he states it in his book(s) that he obtained and translated the papers, but so, too , did Dr. August Priesack when he supposedly "found" the diaries of Adolf Hitler; Simon obviously could have made the manuscript up, then had it translated, or (the more probable case) he could have made up obtaining and translating it and just immediately published it. Again, the only problem with these theories is that, taken too dogmatically, they force us to completely omit what also might be the truth: that he really did obtain a manuscript and had it translated.

If it could be confirmed that Simon wrote the book himself then he would be my favorite author as I think the book is darkly splendid.

Whether its really fake or really real I do not really care. It works.

I do not care what propels the bullet so long as it strikes the target and my aim is true.

If the book had not worked I never would have bothered with it to begin with.

Of course anything will work if the will is strong.

Peace!