Sorcery, merged with older thread Options

Then you can see by the posts and the posting dates how much interest has been generated here. It has been the stance of management to lock down duplicate posts or threads (which yours is...). I have endeavored to give you space to try to ressurect this thread. Good luck!

On another note, Welcome to the Forum! I didn't want your first posting here to be locked as a duplicate...consider this a welcome aboard present! Off-topic: Do take time to familiarize yourself with the posted rules, etc. Check out the Library!

Sorcery has had quite a muddled time for any number of reasons, the least of which is the definition itself. Noone can seem to give a clear and concise meaning. There are well over a half dozen sites on the internet that are all too willing to give you their interpretation...yet they all disagree to some extent. Some simply state that Sorcery is the use of Magic amd/or mental ability brought to bear on the users self and universe in accordance to the users will and generally without the use of spells or magic ritual, ie by natural talent. Some consider Sorcery to be LHP working. There are many variations on the theme. If you read the aforementioned material then you can kind of see what I'm refering to. Perhaps your efforts here will be the necessary impetus needed to spark some interest. I leave it to you and whomever wishes to discourse upon the subject. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well, I didn't intend to make a duplicate thread, so sorry for that..
Thanks for you interpretation on the subject by the way!

I must admit - I am intrigued.

I am intrigued at how sorcery has not really become associated with a widely accepted paradigm amongst magick workers. Instead of there being any specific popular pathway associated with it, there seems to me mostly to be a common vague (and dubious) idea about sorcery being associated with the "left hand path" in various ways - but that is about it.

I am intrigued at how so few published authors seem to have attempted to design a comprehensive and comprehensible pathway for sorcery, and popularize it.

I also am intrigued that even amongst those who have rolled up their sleeves and made an attempt to sculpt some semantic clarification about it, what most often results seems to be a brief and basic outline that puts a few bare bone splinters together - yet does not really seem to add substantiative nerves, sinew, organs, and flesh that not only fails to be fresh, but also fails to be imbued with enough spirit to really come to life.

I suspect this is because, unlike so many other paradigms, a strange kind of accepted perspective seems to exist that sorcery really does not spring spawned from - and thethered to - any of the major pathways (like Enochian, Kabbalah, etc...) That thus seriously challenges any Paradigm Artisan that considers the endeavour to weave something solid for sorcery from the DNA up (so to speak) - instead of merely washing off the familiar, applying cosmetics to their old snouts, then putting on a song and dance spectacle with smoke and mirrors - in the attempt to pass off the hoary boar as a glamour girl.

I have to admit that the scope of this challenge perks my ears up with some interest.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Mar 6 2006, 06:14 PM

IMHO, Sorcery was the term used to classify any magical practice thar fell outside the conventional magical practices of the times. At the time when Theocratic Magic (theurgy)was in vogue, sorcery was that which was followed/used by outsiders, foreigners, heretics, etc. I think it gathered a great deal of negative press then. I've known some well-heeled magicians that look at sorcery to mean "hedge-witchery" or low magic. As you can tell by Cosmicbrats posts he feels abit differently about this...almost the reverse in view point. Psionics, to some magicians, is considered 'sorcery'. So where does all this take us?
A site on the web called 'Molochs Sorcery' (I am trying to recall the exact words) claims that sorcerors use only two pieces of equipment (primarily) to perform sorcery, the Staff and the Bag. Incidently he also sells Radionic devices of somewhat lurid (and innovative) design. How Radionics apply to sorcery is a rather twisted path.

How 'bout doing a membership research project on this subject? See if we can amass a pile of ideas and definitions to try and sort it out...

Another Forum site was rather snobbish when approached about the subject. They have a meditational/astral projection technique that uses the term Twilight walking or somesuch. They ranked our Forum badly for not knowing (and asking) about sorcery. In fact, going so far as to openly laugh at a member who did ask the question, preferring instead to ridicule, name call and general derision than offer any clear or concise information. They liked having a more 'elite' status than to be helpful. *sigh* I still want to know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/baby.gif)

"Twilight", huh?

Well. I only have known one Forum that heavily uses (used?) that term in conjunction with sorcery. The last time I checked that place out was about five years ago - and what you say here about their attitude matches what I experienced from them back then, bym.

But who knows?

Maybe some of them have matured since then. Then again, given how high the hubris and noses seemed raised in the air to me at that time, maybe not.

At any rate, I do not remember any sort of clear, concise, and coherent explanation for what exactly this "Twilight" was - even though their fascinations and explanations seemed to concentrate on that particular concept.



Note: If someone following this thread can comprehensibly explain Twilight - I mean break down, and spell out, what it is, how it works, how to use it, why it's important, etc... - without just pulling and pasting an essay from someplace about it, it might be worth revisiting in a thread devoted to that topic.

Pardon my ignorance but socery isn't as much about spell weaving and such as it is about the will. Whatever school you follow if the will makes up more or most of what you do then it's usually sorcery. Part of the association with Dark or Shadowed paths is due to the fact that when the will is what guides your work it's easier to stray from what others see as good.

That would tend to explain why you seldom see much concrete writing on the subject, it's always different for each hechicero and any potential apprentice is most likely to be from a different background. It also tends to explain why so many moderns who would be sorcerors tends to less than sterling examples of character--having the ability can be a bit of a "rush" that often leads to arrogance and overconfidence.

Arrogance and overconfidence can killl the unwary quite quickly, though worse is the lingering effect of one not fortunate enough to not survive that lack of caution.

Some thunders echo long after the storm is over.

I find this thread really interesting.
How come there is no mention of the Carlos Castaneda stuff?
I know they are generally regarded as works of fiction, but the descriptions of the world of the sorceror/wo/man of knowledge do ring true with much of what I have read and experienced in my own haphazard pursuits, and I'm sure I have read of people who have successfully employed methods described in these books and the central character, Juan Matus and his associates appear to share a common attitude to many of those who have contributed to this thread.
I would welcome more info as to the practical methods employed in the exploration and utilisation of the realms and energies of this fascinating subject.
Thanks for all the info so far.

hmm,

if you do not want to send it into the earth. Then you might try to condense it into your solar plexus, it may be a bit dangerous if it is much energy.

Another technique that i often use:
Send the energy into a big stone or rock. when you need energy later you can draw from that rock. I have one such big rock in my room which I use for many magical workings.

Just place your hands on the sides of the rock and send all the energy into it. See and feel it flowing into the stone.

I will take a picture of it once i am true with the current working, i don't take pictures of a work in progress, since i believe it may disturb the magick.

Keep me updated, I'd love to see your rock. oh and may I ask, how does taking a pictuer disturb the "magick"? Is it the flash? or is it that the camera makes a duplicate which mis-guides the energy's path?

1)What distinguishes sorcery from other paths of magic? Specifically, what distinguishes it from ceremonial magic?

I think perhaps one of the most significant differences between 'sorcery' and any other kind of magick is in the sorcerer's view of the purpose and attitude of the magickal lifestyle. The Adept sorcerer is sensitive to the flow of energy in the world around him and reacting to it either mystically (i.e. the will, movement of energy through direct application of intention), or practically. Most magicians live a lifestyle that either only includes magick during ritual or magickal function - considering the rest of life the 'balance' to the magical life. Ceremonial magicians often have devices which establish a magickal identity solidly, as a 'conduit' to the magical potential within. A sorcerer learns - either through life experience, from a teacher, or most likely from his own instinct and insight into the subtle universe - to have a life that is strictly magickal. That isn't to say that the adept sorcerer holes himself up in a shack where he can commune with the universe all day - although he might - but rather that he has expanded his consciousness to include the perception of the subtle world as a natural state of living.

Also, the sorcerer sees magick as a system of laws governing the basic foundation of exchange and permutation in the universe. He is objective, and recognizes intuitively how to apply his own energy towards the manipulation of the subtle world around him based on the raw mechanics of these metaphysical laws. In a way, sorcery is actually the root of all ritual or traditional magick. Traditions of affecting change became collected into traditions and then built around the central methods of affecting change. However, tradition often becomes bogged down in subjective dogma and mythology, which can limit the immediate application of magick to a situation.

The roots of sorcery will be found in the yogic and eastern traditions from which the western ones normally deviated in their inception. It is the application of a personal relationship to the energetic universe that is the basic principle behind the actual practice of sorcery.

2)What is the goal of sorcery?

The goal of sorcery is as specific as the goals of any individual and as varied.

IMO, the absolute goal of the sorcerer should be to transcend death, and survive to inhabit another body. Not by some arcane means - rather, it is the reaction to the knowledge that we are not garunteed survival after death. There is life beyond the physical world, but not everyone is going to get it just because they are in a body. The soul needs power to survive and be incarnated into a new body. All sorcerers are spiritualists, but not all spiritualists are sorcerers. Really, spirituality is the essence of the cultivation of - naturally - spiritual energy.

3)What tools are involved in sorcery, as well as practices?

Consciousness, the Sixth Sense, and the Will. Because sorcerery is raw magickal effect, it can be clothed in whatever tradition one chooses - and it has been said before onthis thread that Chaotes are the current Sorcerers. And they are, but you can see that over time some general practices become common to many chaotes. In the fullness of time, it will codify as well, and there will be even more radical practices, probably a lot more effective, too. Magickal evolution.

A good beginning practice, though, is meditation. the ability of the sorcerer to unlock his own mind and it's connection to his spiritual energy, is the cornerstone of effective developement.

4)Generally, I've heard that sorcery is more of a "dark/LHP" practice, however I think this idea comes from the belief that sorcery is concerned with the outcome of events, not how you get there(i might be misinterpreting that. but that's why I'm here!).

The meaning of a word changes over the course of history and becomes more subject to context. Romantically Sorcery is a term used to describe the practitioners of arcane arts all together. In this current context, sorcery can be used towards either negative or positive ends. And, a sorcerer understands better than perhaps any other practitioner how to avoid the consequences of negative magick, because if he is mindful and adept, he can easily effect the flow of spiritual energy, we will say 'causal' energy, magickal energy, whatever - he can recognize the reactions to a magickal effect and diver them away. This might mean litterally percieving the movement of energy as astral light, or having a good repoire of communication with your own instincts.

When an inexperienced sorcerer learns to manifest change in his world, I think we all go through a point where we try to fullfill our desires, but it takes a great deal of experience and wisdom to understand how to divert the negative consequences of messing with the currents of energy. There can be coincidental or 'bad luck' type of karmic backlash, physical injry or illness manifested in the world, normally, psychological consequences such as megalomania, insomnia, afflictions of this nature which change the attitude and personality of the sorcerer. Given all of this, a sorcerer gone bad normally selfdestructs and ends up in a hole they can't climb out of. The ones that do gain the wisdom to live in society and have a successful life know enough about the art to normally get what they want without doing to much damage to themselves, although I imagine the relationships they have with people to be superficial at best.

5)Why practice sorcery instead of other branches of magic?

Sorcery is a calling, plain and simple. Some people will never be able to approach it, by simple circumstance of how their brain was set up to direct their experience in life. To those that are called, a traditional branch of magic comes with a tidy package and instruction booklets, and is much easier to lean on than the notion that you could spend your whole life never mastering the subtlties of the will, and you have to spend that entire life struggling to keep your eyes open. It becomes second nature eventually, but that is a daunting journey with many distractions, especially in the west. Most will grow up and either leave it behind all together, or settle into a peaceful, quiet spiritual existence under some label or another. Sorcery requires ingenuity, curiosity, and the balls to accept that there is an answer and you know it.

6)What are some resources for the beginner in sorcery, or to get an idea of what it is? Books, websites, articles, etc?

I suggest any book that deals with the expansion of consciousness. Your perceptions are the key to unlocking a greater world. If you can expand your mind, your perception, to include the subtle dimensions of the universe, then you can begin to gather spiritual energy and acquire the power to reach outside of your shell and effect the energetic world - or simply study the movement of energy in the world and learn how to redirect it through practical means. One effective method of sorcery to effect change involves percieving the energy of a situation as it is, then imposing one's own version or the intended energetic change over the energy percieved. the sorcerer then holds this energy while opening his mind to his 'catalogue' of the phenomenal world - litterally everything that the unconcious or perhaps even superconscious mind recognizes as the phenomenal manifestation of subtle energy - and awaits for a phenomenal pattern to arise which when acted on can effect the desired change. Here direct perception and interaction with energy results in a divinitory practice so that magick is used to discern a practical solution for the problem.

Expanding your catalogue is the first, best way to cultivate the sorcerer's talent. Carlos Casteneda is good, fiction or not - he offers a look into a lifestyle of living in an altered state of consciousness, and some very powerful philosophies which help one cultivate a sensitivity to the fullness of one's being. Meditation programs out there can help you explore the corners of your mind and spirit - I personally suggest the Higher Balance Institute - http://www.higherbalance.org. For the already adept this series will inspire fresh and creative approaches to using meditation to access all sorts of dimensions. For the beginners, this is a good solid foundation in the basics of acquiring energy and a very broad set of core applications of energy. A little creativity and dedicated interest, and even a novice could easily be seeing a drastic shift in everyday consciousness within a year.

Don't shy away from technology when it comes to magick. Remember that everything material reflects it's astral equivalent, and that the same energy can manifest many different ways. As we manifest technologies through our reasoning which grant us greater efficiency in evolving our energetic selves, we are channeling the raw energy of the Evolutionary process which is being manifested in our phenomenal world.

The universe does not work so fantastically as in RPGs and storybooks. Perhaps it might one day, but probably not soon. Our reality is expanding because of the magick workers through the ages. Our evolution is the culmination of the very nature of magick - to change ourselves for the better.

Peace
Vagrant

ps. As this topic seems to involve defining sorcery, I will start a seperate thread involving my own personal take on the step by step approach - intellectually at least - to becoming a competent sorcerer, as there seems to be some demand for such a topic specifically. it is true, as mentioned before, that in the past the traditions of sorcery are normally secretive, this overall paradigm has changed since the nature of our evolution has changed, and now more than ever our reality is expanding drastically. This is the perfect time to spread the wealth because the current malleability of reality will continue to persist as long as we continue to keep pushing the boundaries.

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: May 20 2006, 09:04 AM

Sorccery has no form, as caos magick. Sorccerers manipulate the world with inner strenght- call it as you wish. There can be no real definition as the world we inhabit has its own rules , other domains have there own, so as magic touches all domains and all energyes that travel between paterns of reality and beyond dont have rules beacose they dismis each other and yet create new rules, but all rules are there to be broken or serve as temporary guideline. As sorccery.Nothing is impossible, everything you know you can - YOU CAN! Petty rules of good, evil, karma and so on do not exist if you dont want them to exist.We are travelers and visionars, we want more of the world we see, we explore the deps of our minds as the depts of all holes of all realities.Sorccery does not require a fire to lit a candle, only your inner power.

Sorccery has no form, as caos magick. Sorccerers manipulate the world with inner strenght- call it as you wish. There can be no real definition as the world we inhabit has its own rules , other domains have there own, so as magic touches all domains and all energyes that travel between paterns of reality and beyond dont have rules beacose they dismis each other and yet create new rules, but all rules are there to be broken or serve as temporary guideline. As sorccery.Nothing is impossible, everything you know you can - YOU CAN! Petty rules of good, evil, karma and so on do not exist if you dont want them to exist.We are travelers and visionars, we want more of the world we see, we explore the deps of our minds as the depts of all holes of all realities.Sorccery does not require a fire to lit a candle, only your inner power.

Certainly, this is all true. However, I daresay that you may find, in the fullness of your education in life wether practically or magickally, that there are indeed universal laws upon which your universe will inevitably hinge. They may be somewhat personal, but I can almost certainly garuntee that if you were to compare those 'personal' laws with the wisdom of every tradition, personal or otherwise, found in human consciousness, you will see blaringly obvious paralells.

It is the mistake of many a novice to dismiss the objective universe outright, assuming that there is only a subjective one. In fact, the two exist interlaced and overlapped. There is a real, solid, immutable objective world. Many assume that each physical law of the objective universe can be bent and broken with sufficient will. In fact, no such thing ever happens - given the law of polarity, every law in the universe has a corresponding counterpart. You may imagine the ball at the center of a tug-o-war, moving up and down as either side exerts greater strength than the other.

the manifestations of these laws thus become a kind of 'sliding scale'. Applying your will into the world, you take advantage of these opposed laws - percieved as paradoxes by the linearly minded - whether you acknowledge it or not.

Acknowledging the simultaneously objective and subjective universe, one -often- finds that the conscious will and the unconcious intellect will work in greater synergy to bring about change in a much more effective fashion. The soul within you already understands these laws, as it is composed by them.

You may say it takes only your will to light a candle - but how is the lighting itself, physically, accomplished? it will occur via the physical laws governing combustion, as well as the astral laws concerning the condensation of spiritual energy (astral energy) and the basic energetic principle of the Will. Differences in traditions do not dictate differences in Sacred Law.

ive had my energy drain its not that nice got em back for it l8ter tho

I That thus seriously challenges any Paradigm Artisan that considers the endeavour to weave something solid for sorcery from the DNA up (so to speak) - instead of merely washing off the familiar, applying cosmetics to their old snouts, then putting on a song and dance spectacle with smoke and mirrors - in the attempt to pass off the hoary boar as a glamour girl.

I have to admit that the scope of this challenge perks my ears up with some interest.

Originally I ascribed myself to toltec sorcery, and having mastered it to some extent, I have started my own website and am now in the process of creating a system of sorcery that is more accessible to the wider occult community. I've been working on it for awhile and have two dear apprentices that assist me (sometimes as guinie pigs... lol), one being a very talented sorcerress. I have to impress on you, however, sorcery cannot really be fathomed... only lived, i.e. it is not something that you consciously do, but rather something that you are.

Therefore I have now undertaken the tedious, but fun task of 'pigeon holing' it in such a way that the student, with time, discovers for himself/herself that it can't really be categorized, just as divinity cannot be comprehended in its full glory. We humans are just not cut out for shit like that, but... we can 'experience' divinity and that on its own gives one a very 'unique and personal' knowledge of it. This also applies to sorcery.

I will post edited versions of some of our work, as we progress, but needless to say, it will be many years before an entire functional and cohesive system can be presented... and even then it will not be completely accurate, because as I said before, trying to label it is like an attempt at classifying Divinity according to the four walls of a room.

We are trying our best though.

Ps. Since it looks like everyone here seems to be grappling at the concept... I could make a few posts on traditional sorcery (yes... there is indeed a backround to it) if you'd like??

This post has been edited by Psypocalypse: Jul 9 2006, 08:56 AM

Therefore I have now undertaken the tedious, but fun task of 'pigeon holing' it in such a way that the student, with time, discovers for himself/herself that it can't really be categorized, just as divinity cannot be comprehended in its full glory. We humans are just not cut out for shit like that, but... we can 'experience' divinity and that on its own gives one a very 'unique and personal' knowledge of it. This also applies to sorcery.

I will post edited versions of some of our work, as we progress, but needless to say, it will be many years before an entire functional and cohesive system can be presented... and even then it will not be completely accurate, because as I said before, trying to label it is like an attempt at classifying Divinity according to the four walls of a room.

We are trying our best though.

Is there anyone here, with experience, that would like to assist me and the gals in putting this thing together? What I have so far is a load of unorganised, yet pertinant texts, encapsulating a myriad of facets relating to sorcery, which opens up opportunities for individuals to get involved on a variety of levels.

I need a few people that are willing to commit some time every day to research, trying out newly developed practices, proof reading, editing, philosophying, correspondence, etc. with the view of presenting the occult community with a well-reasearced, emperically-based cohesive-as-can-be system of modern day sorcery.

If anyone would like to assist us, then please pm me or reply to this post. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/juggle.gif)

Everyone is looking for a definition of sorcery but it is one that does not and will probably never exist. I as a sorceress do not practice sorcery but rather live e life that has access to many aspects of different carts, and this is where glamour and twilight come in to play. Today i am going to try and describe twilight and as it is best described by feeling i am going to relate a personal experience. In fact it was my first experience of twilight. When i was young i had a rock garden comprised of quartz and mica veined granite and as i was playing there one afternoon i was joined by a Cape cobra. I sat there talking to it for about 10 minutes before my mother came out and found me. She naturally screamed for my father to get the rifle and this startled the snake. As it was about to strike i entered into the twilight. Time slowed down, my vision blured as he there was a thick fog and the world around of seemed distorted. Whilst in this "trance" i imagined the snake to be on the other side of the rock garden. Meanwhile In the "real world "my father had shot the snake and i will never forget his face when he come closer and realised that it was so far away from the spot where he had taken aim and fired. I have used the twilight many times since then but always the feeling stayes the same. It is as if i am being bombarded with every emotion in the world at once.