Liber Koth, funky ass Invocations Options

Has anyone here read Liber Koth? I have just finished it and am primed to experiement with the invocations. Does anyone have experience with the Tower of Koth and the mythos entities that lie within?
The whole temple is astrally constructed and so this will be something very new to me.

Heres a link to the book, http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1...6570645-9931627

Greetings! No, I have not heard of this until now. Hmmm....I would think twice before rushing headlong into ANY invocational work dealing with darker forces. C'mon...use some common sense! What are your background foundations like? Do you understand the underlying principles of the Astral Temple? Why would you be inclined to take the word(s) of a total stranger in order to gain some form of enlightenment...especially those of potentially lethal content? Oh, well.....I know, boring warnings! Here's the matches.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flame.gif)

Look.....I know that as a Moderator we are supposed to be supportive, etc. And I do tend to be a cautionary, old fart...but...I'd feel really bad if I didn't alert you to possible hazards...so please take this in the spirit it was given! I wish you luck and fortune on your path, no matter what it is...K?

This post has been edited by bym: Apr 19 2005, 07:43 PM

The Tower of Koth resides in Lovecraft Stories and is the place in the dream world where the King of Nightmares lives and resides. The people who live there are slaves and controlled by the sign of Koth. I have no idea why anyone would create a ritual around this. Bad news all around.

On a side note:
I know this forum is Necronomicon but we keep getting threads about mythos/Lovecraft chaos magick systems built upon this. I am unsure if these type threads belong here or in chaos magick.

Ok.....I have a good background in and am experienced within Cthulhu mythos magic and Chaos Magic, I'm not some fool kid that doesnt know his Shaggoth from Shub-Nigurrath. I appreciate the warnings.... and with all due respect from your replies it would appear that I know a lot more on the subject than you. I will be honest, I have never used an astral temple before, but I am reading and learning and you know what they say, practice makes perfect.
Cthulhu Magic is a prime paradigm of mine, and I have got some great results and have yet to go mad..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
I've read most of Lovecrafts works, read both Simon Nec's, the Psudonomicon, the R'lhey Text, and many many other Necronomicons and mythos books.

"I know this forum is Necronomicon but we keep getting threads about mythos/Lovecraft chaos magick systems built upon this. I am unsure if these type threads belong here or in chaos magick."

Eh?! This is Cthulhu mythos stuff! Where else should it be???

This post has been edited by Alarum: Apr 20 2005, 03:12 PM

Greetings Alarum!
Touche'
I respect your motives and your space. I think you might be on the verge of doing yourself some lasting damage. You are correct in assuming that I know little when it comes to Cthulu Mythos magic. I've not read the tens of books based on the magic system of the Lovecraftian Mythos. I have read ALL of the books by Lovecraft, Bierce, Lumley, Howard, Smith, Derleth, Yeats, etc. that evolved around a group of writers/occultists that expounded on the Cthulu Mythos. It is hard to say that there is validity in a fictional system of magic. Since one of my beliefs is that there is a thing called a 'collective unconcious' it would be contradictive of me to say that one wouldn't achieve a level of success whilst employing this system. The countless thoughtforms engendered and provoked by these authors would form the basis for a magical reality. Your own Chaos magic supports the idea of the generation of servile thoughtforms. Whether or not these thoughtforms when coupled with an avid believer, such as yourself, be able to manifest a definite threat and/or lethalness remains to be seen. If from what I've 'played' with in the past is any indication, it would appear that, yes, this system is capable of doing just that.
I am well versed in Chaos magic. A.O.Spare is one of my 'heroes' ..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush2.gif)
I'll thank you to not make such sweeping generalizations about my level of knowledge/understanding.
If you know little about such things as 'astral temples' then some more prep work is needed before you launch yourself into the Abyss. I suggest Bardon, Gray and Regardie (ooh, also Denning & Philips) for a 'quick' course.
Finally, I want to make a statement for all who visit this Forum. Not everything you read, in print, is real/true or is compatible with you. In my opinion, this Forum is here as a place of learning and discussion. It is the meeting of the minds that will bring knowledge, understanding and creativity. I certainly don't know it all (no matter how long-winded I get) and I'm just as happy that I don't. Please take the time to be responsible for yourselves and examine your motives before reacting blindly to a situation. Life (and especially the pursuit of knowledge) is bumpy enough without you adding to the bruises needlessly. Good luck in your endeavors Alarum, and please tell me of your struggles so that I can understand and share in your experience(s).
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

PS here's another link to this dubious book:

http://www.ravenoir.com/R136.htm

"I think you might be on the verge of doing yourself some lasting damage."

Why?

"It is hard to say that there is validity in a fictional system of magic."

Well I don't want to get into this debate again, had it before. I have a rather different approach on how magic works that doesnt rely on a collective sub-conscious, although it is a part of the equasion. I'm a theoretical physics nutt so I tend to find bridges between m-theory/string theory/quantum mechanics and magic(k). At present I have a nice little world view and it suits me fine, and in this world view I can worship/do/believe in just about anything I want and get results. Although I havent taken it as far as evoking Bart Simpson. Cthulhu will do fine for now lol.

"I'll thank you to not make such sweeping generalizations about my level of knowledge/understanding."

Sorry dude, I did say, "With all due respect" and, "appear", I didnt say that I knew you didnt know anything. Again, sorry. Mates now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


"If you know little about such things as 'astral temples' then some more prep work is needed before you launch yourself into the Abyss. I suggest Bardon, Gray and Regardie (ooh, also Denning & Philips) for a 'quick' course."

I will definatly check them out, thanks.


And I shall end this with

"Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted"

Now Fly my pretties! FLY! Go forth and multiply! Spead your filth! Go! MWUHAHAHAAA
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

Found it! Its far from complete and I wrote it a while back, but I can revise it.

In my opinion, not to say that it is fact, just my take on the subject; Entities/spirits/daemons etc are not separate anthropomorphic beings, that exist outside and independent of us. They are however, aspects of the collective human subconscious and resided in the depths of the human mind. These entities exist in the quantum foam that permeates all reality and human consciousness and have the ability to use the human mind as a gateway. These Gateways are located in different areas of the human brain and each entity has its own 'sphere' of power. All these spheres/sub-realities (or astral planes etc) make up the subconscious mind of the human and different areas can be activated while in a magical situation such as invocation. Without the human mind to act as a prism or focal point the entities themselves would not be able to have any formal existence, and would just be random chaos in the subatomic void; it is humans that have given birth to them over the aeons and ascribed these areas of our subconscious with names of power. When these entities gain enough 'belief power' or psychic focus, they can cross the line form being random chaotic force to being an egregore or even eventually a God Form. However, without the human element in the equation, there would be no Gods or spirits.
Unlike other animals, insects, fish etc humans have higher cognitive functions and creativity which allows them to shape or discover these spheres where their potential Gods lurk. We can discipline our minds and to a degree, manipulate the quantum world around us which allows for the existence of these 'other worldly' entities. As the quantum world has a very random nature and does not ascribe to our consensus reality it allows for 'strange things' to happen. When enough force/focus/gnosis is applied to the quantum world it is possible for events to take place in our reality that would otherwise seem impossible. It is possible that one day you will be able to put your hand right through a wall or accidentally appear seven miles away, or change an omelet into an egg, as even though the chances of theses things happening are infinitesimally small, they still have a chance of happening. Which means, given enough time, anything could happen. When a human mind effects the quantum world, it becomes possible for these 'strange things' to actually take place in accordance to the will of the magician.
So there you go, this is my view of how magic works. I would like people to pick at it and criticize anything you don’t agree with or anything that you think is wrong as I am still formulating my ideas and would love some constructive criticism.

Alarum.

Greetings Alarum!
Thank you for your take on magic. Which, believe it or not, is very similar (but not the same) as my own. But then, after reading your statement I'm again led to ask why are you using such a negative focused lens to play with magic(k)? I do disagree with the premiss that all the entities/demons/angels, etc. are merely components 'within' us. (BTW, fish etc. do have a conciousness that is cognate. You are edging closer to humanocentric thinking here.) Mankind is only one living thing in this multiverse!
As to the 'why?' in reference to my thought that you may be on the verge of doing yourself some harm: The scenario that you introduced is based on the book by Sennitt that openly declares itself and its contents to be deadly. That alone should give you pause. But you are correct, you have every right in the world to believe and practice what you will, including suicide if that is your aim. I voiced concern over what I considered reckless behavior. So tell me (or any of us) just what aspect of Sennitts work that you find particularily poignant in regards to your views (quantum and otherwise) about magic(k)?
Since we've started this dialogue I've noticed that when pushed you have responded with a VERY interesting theory on magical mechanics. No, I mean it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Now you have engaged my interest beyond those of concern (well placed or not). It (your posts) have blossomed with some thought (....quite often younger people are just so enthusiastic about new things that they just react instead of thinking). I'm still dying to know, why Sennitt? If you'll note madness plays a heavy role in most Lovecraftian writings. Do you have a method that you'd think will circumvent/diffuse this problem? There are others here that work with similar systems that would be very anxious to brainstorm with you and discover such safeguards.
There are things out there that have the ability to eat you alive, all whilst you are repeatedly screaming at them that they are figments of your imagination. A fun example of this was illustrated in the SF movie 'Forbidden Planet' (which I heartily reccomend!). You yourself made claim: "The whole temple is astrally constructed and so this will be something very new to me." Again, you are willing to experience someone elses construct without fully understanding just what you may be getting yourself in to.
Make an old man happy and at least, think about it. Again, I am interested in discussing your findings and even more so, your theories on magic(k).
My quote about the validity of a fictionalized system of magic is being presented here out of context. I did go on about that in the next paragraph. Literary dissection is alot like statistics, they can be shaped to whatever end you'd like. We are here to learn....pardon me for needing explanations, I didn't have "this debate" with you before. I hope that we can discuss things in depth sometime. Thanks for your post!
I have editted this from the previous draft. Hopefully the (in)famous author named is now spelled correctly. I apologize.

This post has been edited by bym: Apr 21 2005, 11:25 PM

"I have edited this from the previous draft. Hopefully the (in)famous author named is now spelled correctly. I apologize."

Eh? I didn’t read the original so I don’t know what you mean.

"Unlike other animals, insects, fish etc humans have higher cognitive functions"

By this I meant that they have consciousness, but not higher cognitive functions such as sentient thought, to know the concept of 'I' and be able to think, formulate and understand. Fish, Cat's, Rhinos, Wasps etc can't do this, Chimps and Dolphins can, and I would argue that they are sentient, but they still lack the human intelligence that separates us from the rest of the animal world. I believe it was Mr Hyatt that said that man is not a God and he is not a Beast, he is both of them and neither. This is a deep question for philosophy though, and although I would enjoy a debate about it I think that I'm going a wee bit off topic. Maybe in another forum?

I have not yet used Liber Koth, but I am planning too once I know and understand everything there is to know about astral temples and the like, I was never planning to dive in head first. That’s why I was asking here, because I thought someone may have experience or knowledge on the subject and could point me in the direction of a good reading list (thanks bym).

As to why I enjoy the Cthulhu mythos I will go into later, as my philosophy lesson starts in about five minutes and I have to get to the other site lol!
Bye for now.

Ah....back now from my lessons.
Yes...well...Cthulhu mythos, yes. It has always inspired and stimulated my mind, the imagery is amazing and so vivid, there are countless options. Lovecraft has created a world view that is believable and (at least to me) realistic. I can sit and ponder the history of the world and build theories around it related to the Great Old Ones and all their minions. I love the dark side to the whole genre and work with the entities, just as the cultists in Lovecraft’s stories do. I have aligned myself with their force and manifest their plan in this world by working with them and them through me.
I have read Lovecraft for much longer than I have anything about the occult, and so when I really got serious about magic and read Liber Null + Psychonaut and Liber Kaos I discovered the ‘Azathoth Conjuration’ and dived in. I don't think that I have ever looked back from that point on. I have always known that if I believe that I'll go mad then I will, and in some ritual events I have almost felt that I have, but I know that I am working with these forces and not against them and that I have nothing to fear. Insanity is part of the equation, but then it is with all magic, I have just chosen a path that you have to really be careful in. I have worked with Lovecraftian entities and am on good terms with them. I am helping them to actualise their eschaton!
Hell, I even have a Shoggoth above my bed on my book shelf lol!


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/uglyhammer.gif)

Greetings Alarum!
Ah, well now..... I guess that says it all.

in this world view I can worship/do/believe in just about anything I want and get results. Although I havent taken it as far as evoking Bart Simpson. Cthulhu will do fine for now lol.

I never said you wouldn't get results, in fact I am pretty sure you will. I just said it might not be the best idea to do so.

You've read Lovecraft, what happens to those in the stories who interact with Cthulhu? It is not a pretty sight....

"I never said you wouldn't get results, in fact I am pretty sure you will. I just said it might not be the best idea to do so."

I know, I wasnt saying otherwise.


"You've read Lovecraft, what happens to those in the stories who interact with Cthulhu? It is not a pretty sight...."

They don't always go mad... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif) And Cthulhu has a place reserved for me by his side as one of his many priests, I will be a good sacrifice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Nero: I think we should go ahead an keep the mythos/Lovecraft stuff here in "Necronomicon".

Where else should it go?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)