Poll: Triangle Or No Triangle Options

I am looking for people to share why they prefer to use or not use a triangle. I know some do and some do only once in a while. So share why you do or don't.

Well, I said use a triangle all of the time. The triangle of art is used to house the mirror in which you invoke entites. The triangle works as a sacred space in which an entity can not pass.

I think I remember something about Aliester Crowley putting himself into the triangle while an apprentice called forth a demon from the circle Apparently while the demon used Aliester as a vehicle he was telling the apprentice all sorts of information. While the apprentice hurried to write it down, Aliester kicked sand from the ground and erased the line of the triangle and that of the circle and attacked the apprentice. The apprentice used a "spiritual sword" and fought off the demon and proceeded with the correct banishing of the demon. Though I'd REALLY not recommend this. Aliester was an adept and obviously a strange individual, he also wasn't quite the same afterwards and apparently began calling himself the beast. Course, then again I'm not sure if this story is complete. But, don't put yourself in the triangle.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bruce_h4h.gif) (I tried looking for a emoticon the shook it's finger at you but this'll have to suffice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif))

This practice is usually used in CM, I've used the mirror and incense as an attatchment or vehicle for the entity, but I've never felt the need to put the being outside the circle. I would assume it's usually done with lesser beings and demons, usually the ones from the Goetia. When invoking, or calling, I usually do so with benevolant entities such as specific dieties and angels and welcome thier presence in the circle.

But, like I always say, I'm just going by my own impressions.

This post has been edited by Angalor: May 18 2006, 09:20 PM

Same as you other post prefer doube circle

snip
Well, I said use a triangle all of the time. The triangle of art is used to house the mirror in which you invoke entites. The triangle works as a sacred space in which an entity can not pass.
snip
This practice is usually used in CM, I've used the mirror and incense as an attatchment or vehicle for the entity, but I've never felt the need to put the being outside the circle. I would assume it's usually done with lesser beings and demons, usually the ones from the Goetia. When invoking, or calling, I usually do so with benevolant entities such as specific dieties and angels and welcome thier presence in the circle.
snip

Angalor,

Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that you use your triangle and/or mirror inside the circle? I'm just wondering how safe this it, as I have done the same. I have only worked with angelic or higher spirits and have not felt the need to place my medium (I use a candle to seer) out side of my circle. I also don't use a triangle either. I'm curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif)

Cheers,

Benjamin
Student at SAE World HQ
http://www.sae.edu
Australia

I only use a triangle if I'm going to summon something particularly nasty or something which might cause trouble if i let it wonder around freely. As a general rule if I haven't summoned it before and I have any hint of potential nastiness it goes in the triangle, otherwise i don't bother. Also, I never, ever put it in the circle, seems rather pointless to do so really. If I wanted to give it free reign near me why would I cast a triangle in the first place? Of course, if I’ve got that wrong feel free to correct me.

I am looking for people to share why they prefer to use or not use a triangle. I know some do and some do only once in a while. So share why you do or don't.

I do not use a triangle or circle.
How would you feel if I put you in a prision cell and then ordered you to do something for me?

I use sacrifice af inscence alchohal and burning bread. If I am going to ask something I give offering. The spirits will respect you more if you are bold enough to call them without such protection. The strength of the will should be greater than that of the spirit called. A clever magician's mind alone should be protection enough. Furthermore by conjuring a spirit in a triangle it does not have enough room to fully manifest. Many spirits I have called have manifested in a 12 0r 15 foot diameter.

I use a system of sorcery in which gates are passed which gives one power over spirits.

However if you fear the demon I would suggest you use circles and a triangle. However if you fear that a spirit has the strength and will to harm you then you should not be calling it to begin with. If you fear a spirit it already has power over you. What exsist in the mind exsist in reality.

There are many ways to have power over spirits. One such symbol I have tatooed on my body. A symbol by which all spirits may pay me homage over my heart. Let your mind be your circle. Your will must be strong. A strong wizard will gain power over spirits without need of such precautions. Even if you are not of stronger will than the spirit called if you give appropriate sacrifice and the manner of calling is of a good nature a spirit is unlikely to attack you without cause. If anything you have shown it respect as another soul. These are safeguards for protection. It seems safe to call a spirit in such a manner. However once the spirit is free there is nothing to stop it from returning to the place where you summoned it. When bad things suddenly manifest in your life it may no longer seem such a good idea to have ordered a Goetic spirit around. In any case just be sure that you make a decent offering. No matter the nature of the spirit from my experiance they always respond to sufficient offering. That to them is food. You might do alot for someone when you are very hungry and that person offers you food. And why would you attack one who has offered you libation and is likely to do so in the future?

Really interesting smasher, have you summoned any maelovent spirits that dont respond well to this or are mishchievious?
Also in response to Angalor, yes the spirit's name was Chroronzon, and when Crowley entered the circle, it possessed him. After that it tried to seduce and trick him into leaving the circle but he ignored it. But while Neuremberg was taking down the notes, the demon, through Crowley threw sand on the circle and attacked him, but was later pushed out of the circle and threatened with Neuremberg's magic dagger.

This post has been edited by Chorozon: Jun 29 2006, 08:16 AM

Really interesting smasher, have you summoned any maelovent spirits that dont respond well to this or are mishchievious?
Also in response to Angalor, yes the spirit's name was Chroronzon, and when Crowley entered the circle, it possessed him. After that it tried to seduce and trick him into leaving the circle but he ignored it. But while Neuremberg was taking down the notes, the demon, through Crowley threw sand on the circle and attacked him, but was later pushed out of the circle and threatened with Neuremberg's magic dagger.

About 9 years ago after working with the Lesser Key for over a year almost on a daily basis. I called all of the Goetic spirits in a single night and space without a circle to prove my power over them.

There are some spirits that I would not call without a circle or triangle. These belong more in the class of evil gods than the class of evil spirits though. A couple of evil Gods I foolishly called years ago when I was going through a Ceremonial Magician phase. It worked perfectly for what I wanted which was to crush some enemies. Once again I trusted to my Tatoo of a little known Bardon symbol which is to Make All Spirits Pay Homage. It was so many years ago that I got the Tatoo I can not remember exactly which book it came from. It was used on bird houses to house spirits and said to cause madness if written on a man. Although it is tatooed on me I am not insane that I know of. If you want I can try to draw the symbol scan it on my scanner and post it here. SO let me know.

Now that my 20's are gone and my 30's are here I am a bit more cautious. I have seen more than one Ceremonial Magician lose thier mind in the last 5 years.

We should all learn our limitations and not go beyond them.

This post has been edited by smasher666: Jun 29 2006, 10:45 AM

Really interesting smasher, have you summoned any maelovent spirits that dont respond well to this or are mishchievious?
Also in response to Angalor, yes the spirit's name was Chroronzon, and when Crowley entered the circle, it possessed him. After that it tried to seduce and trick him into leaving the circle but he ignored it. But while Neuremberg was taking down the notes, the demon, through Crowley threw sand on the circle and attacked him, but was later pushed out of the circle and threatened with Neuremberg's magic dagger.

About 9 years ago after working with the Lesser Key for over a year almost on a daily basis. I called all of the Goetic spirits in a single night and space without a circle to prove my power over them.

There are some spirits that I would not call without a circle or triangle. These belong more in the class of evil gods than the class of evil spirits though. A couple of evil Gods I foolishly called years ago when I was going through a Ceremonial Magician phase. It worked perfectly for what I wanted which was to crush some enemies. Once again I trusted to my Tatoo of a little known Bardon symbol which is to Make All Spirits Pay Homage. It was so many years ago that I got the Tatoo I can not remember exactly which book it came from. It was used on bird houses to house spirits and said to cause madness if written on a man. Although it is tatooed on me I am not insane that I know of. If you want I can try to draw the symbol scan it on my scanner and post it here. SO let me know.

Now that my 20's are gone and my 30's are here I am a bit more cautious. I have seen more than one Ceremonial Magician lose thier mind in the last 5 years.

We should all learn our limitations and not go beyond them.

I would have to agree with Smasher about the presence of a circle/triangle. I Haven't used one myself since my very first experiments in evocation. When the magician has established a sacred space - IMO most effective when it exists both within the magician and in his chosen workroom/area (I have, for instance, a double circle with a pentacle inside of it scribed on a sheet of cotton that is about four feet across for "to go") - you should have the understanding and faith that within that space you are the Absolute - the embodiment of God itself and with total dominion over that space and everything within it.

Having established that authority, entities are much, much more respectful and forthcoming than when they are called into a triangle and treated as something that could possibly harm you. Adding libation to the matter of some sort - I like to burn herbs resonant with the spirit's nature, myself - shows that the magician is an appreciative and gracious 'God' in his space. And we all know that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Malevolent spirits are just like malevolent people. You can always assume they are looking for the next oppurtunity to trip you up. Respond with a firm hand, show that you aren't to be trifled with, and even the most dangerous spirits will get the picture - but you must have unflinching confidence.

Remember: everything that is true about human nature, is true about spirits as well, but on a different level.

peace

I have heard from several adept magicians that your circle travels with you and is "around you" all the time. I've been told that after about a year is not necessary to practice the LBRP anymore, but it is better if you do, if you understand the concepts behind such rituals. Although it is better to practice these things daily, as in the beginning, but the adept understands his/her place in the universe and does not fear the demons.

If you establish yourself as a Divine authority, without hesitation, you are supreme.

I once remember a friend asking me, "Why do you look so serious all the time?" And I answered, "Because I am". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif)

This post has been edited by benrachor: Jun 29 2006, 05:34 PM

Really interesting smasher, have you summoned any maelovent spirits that dont respond well to this or are mishchievious?
Also in response to Angalor, yes the spirit's name was Chroronzon, and when Crowley entered the circle, it possessed him. After that it tried to seduce and trick him into leaving the circle but he ignored it. But while Neuremberg was taking down the notes, the demon, through Crowley threw sand on the circle and attacked him, but was later pushed out of the circle and threatened with Neuremberg's magic dagger.

About 9 years ago after working with the Lesser Key for over a year almost on a daily basis. I called all of the Goetic spirits in a single night and space without a circle to prove my power over them.

There are some spirits that I would not call without a circle or triangle. These belong more in the class of evil gods than the class of evil spirits though. A couple of evil Gods I foolishly called years ago when I was going through a Ceremonial Magician phase. It worked perfectly for what I wanted which was to crush some enemies. Once again I trusted to my Tatoo of a little known Bardon symbol which is to Make All Spirits Pay Homage. It was so many years ago that I got the Tatoo I can not remember exactly which book it came from. It was used on bird houses to house spirits and said to cause madness if written on a man. Although it is tatooed on me I am not insane that I know of. If you want I can try to draw the symbol scan it on my scanner and post it here. SO let me know.

Now that my 20's are gone and my 30's are here I am a bit more cautious. I have seen more than one Ceremonial Magician lose thier mind in the last 5 years.

We should all learn our limitations and not go beyond them.

I would have to agree with Smasher about the presence of a circle/triangle. I Haven't used one myself since my very first experiments in evocation. When the magician has established a sacred space - IMO most effective when it exists both within the magician and in his chosen workroom/area (I have, for instance, a double circle with a pentacle inside of it scribed on a sheet of cotton that is about four feet across for "to go") - you should have the understanding and faith that within that space you are the Absolute - the embodiment of God itself and with total dominion over that space and everything within it.

Having established that authority, entities are much, much more respectful and forthcoming than when they are called into a triangle and treated as something that could possibly harm you. Adding libation to the matter of some sort - I like to burn herbs resonant with the spirit's nature, myself - shows that the magician is an appreciative and gracious 'God' in his space. And we all know that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Malevolent spirits are just like malevolent people. You can always assume they are looking for the next oppurtunity to trip you up. Respond with a firm hand, show that you aren't to be trifled with, and even the most dangerous spirits will get the picture - but you must have unflinching confidence.

Remember: everything that is true about human nature, is true about spirits as well, but on a different level.

peace

Vagrant Dreamer has spoken wisely. However remeber if you are a newbie U had best stick to the basics and follow the double circle and Triangle method.

smasher666, it would be great if you could show us the symbol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dribble.gif)

I agree with you guys, but only if you are an experienced magician would I recommend the absence of the double circle and triangle

I am moving this topic to the Esoteric Discussion from the Coffee Shop. The coffee shop forum is more for chatty non occult type discussion.

smasher666, it would be great if you could show us the symbol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dribble.gif)

I agree with you guys, but only if you are an experienced magician would I recommend the absence of the double circle and triangle

I drew it and scanned it. Now I am having trouble getting the attachment onto SM. I will keep trying. If I do not get it on just email me and I am sure I can send it as an email attachment.

smasher666, it would be great if you could show us the symbol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dribble.gif)

I agree with you guys, but only if you are an experienced magician would I recommend the absence of the double circle and triangle

I drew it and scanned it. Now I am having trouble getting the attachment onto SM. I will keep trying. If I do not get it on just email me and I am sure I can send it as an email attachment.

Ok I think I got it this time. Its a double circle I accidently clipped the edges editing my drawing.

to attach a photo onto a post,

first be sure the size is not that big.. so better save your picture as jpeg/jpg...

when you are typing your message, see below is

File Attachments

browse to specify the file (picture).. click on Add this attachment

after some minutes the file will be uploaded...



you will find the file name below the File attachments area.



to add it now to the post, there is a button "add in post".. leave your cursor in the place you type your messages normally and then click on this button..[attachment=272:attachment]



voila..

PS do not delete this attachment from your control panel as the file wil disappear from the post.



regards

Mystick

Angalor,

Correct me if I'm wrong, are you saying that you use your triangle and/or mirror inside the circle? I'm just wondering how safe this it, as I have done the same. I have only worked with angelic or higher spirits and have not felt the need to place my medium (I use a candle to seer) out side of my circle. I also don't use a triangle either. I'm curious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused012.gif)

Cheers,

Benjamin
Student at SAE World HQ
http://www.sae.edu
Australia

Well, a mirror or candle yes. I haven't used a triangle inside the circle itself. I've never had any adverse reactions or 'ill will' bestowed upon me. Usually working with benevolent entities you can pretty much ascertain wether or not they're who they say they are. Such as asking a series of questions and going by their response, also using your intuition or psychic ability to sense wether or not they're benevolent. But, also doing this inside the circle helps to so to speak 'weed out' the nasty entities. Such as if you've cast a circle for the specific task of keeping out bothersome and negative entities. I would say it is safer being inside a circle and using it as a "filter" for negative energies, than invoking entities outside it which might have a tendency to stick around.

cool symbol, thanks its a keeper (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

"I think I remember something about Aliester Crowley putting himself into the triangle while an apprentice called forth a demon from the circle Apparently while the demon used Aliester as a vehicle he was telling the apprentice all sorts of information"

"Also in response to Angalor, yes the spirit's name was Chroronzon, and when Crowley entered the circle, it possessed him. After that it tried to seduce and trick him into leaving the circle but he ignored it. But while Neuremberg was taking down the notes, the demon, through Crowley threw sand on the circle and attacked him, but was later pushed out of the circle and threatened with Neuremberg's magic dagger."

From whence comes these cockamame versions pls. ?
I've always enjoyed this story as a triune of persons ie. Crowley, Neuremberg, & Chronzon.
Nuremberg Evoked Chronzon to visibility via. 3 slain pigeons whilst Mr. Crow , hood drawn, stood apart in His own Circle Astrally identifying Himself with Chronzons' every facet--- not that he himself was in the Triangle.

I have personally never felt the need to use a triangle but i must add that this is a personal choice and can be dangerous. I make it a point to research every aspect of what i am about to do and therefore i feel that i am adequately prepared. As long as i feel that i am in control of the situation i will not be harmed.

I use a large triangle sometimes, depends what I am doing. I find I use it more on formal occasions and when I am doing something new. It is a good thing to have a place to focus on that is disconnected from my surroundings.

I change things a lot when I do workings, so my triangle is normally tape on a bare wall and sigisl etc stuck onto the actual tape which can be changed as you move through different summonings or rituals in a day, rather than using something with permanent names or sigils on it.

I've always used a triangle, and I've never had a problem with the entities I've summoned becoming belligerent or hostile. They understand the rules and comply with them.

That having been said: I also draw the triangle on the ground with chalk outside the circle. It's like a double or triple clear glass wall. Think of it like bulletproof glass at the bank and you pretty much get the idea. I'll also draw the sigil of the entity inside the triangle with chalk, and place a paper sigil (if I need one) on top of that. That way they're automatically summoned *inside* the triangle, I don't have to force them to go anywhere, and they can't wander around either. Then, when I'm done, I just hose down the patio and both the triangle and sigil are gone, thereby releasing the entity to do whatever it was that I asked them to do.

I also try to be respectful to the entity within the triangle, and won't push them around or curse them unless they really don't want to do what they're told. I've never had a problem with that though.

I chose the option "use triangle some of the time". Reading all of the posts reminded me of the CM use for triangles which I hadn't thought about since watching an invocation ritual someone posted on this site. I've mainly used triangles as a hand gesture meant for focusing energy. Sometimes for sending energy out and other times for drawing in Divine essence. I've found it also helps me focus clairvoyant skills when I hold my hands that way near my eyes with my fingertips lined with my third eye.

The comments about confidence and will are very very important points. There is wisdom in knowing limitations. As magicians we dare to do things many won't be we also must know what we are doing. Sometimes the best defense is to leave well enough alone ... at least for the time being. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It is the will which creates a reality of protection. Train your awareness and focus and a magick circle will follow you where ever you go. Spiritual essence or magick as some call it, is everywhere. The concept of a circle is what brings us back to that awareness.

I use John Lennon's words at the conclusion of each Elodrym ritual to remind people of this.

"However far you travel,
Where ever you may roam,
The center of the circle,
Will always be your home."

This post has been edited by Masery: Nov 5 2006, 11:09 PM