Kali Options

The worship of a mother goddess as the source of life and fertility has prehistoric roots, but the transformation of that deity into a Great goddess of cosmic powers was achieved with the composition of the Devi Mahatmya (Glory of the goddess), a text of the fifth to sixth century, when worship of the female principle took on dramatic new dimensions. The goddess is not only the mysterious source of life, she is the very soil, all-creating and all consuming.

Kali makes her 'official' debut in the Devi-Mahatmya, where she is said to have emanated from the brow of Goddess Durga (slayer of demons) during one of the battles between the divine and anti-divine forces. Etymologically Durga's name means "Beyond Reach". She is thus an echo of the woman warrior's fierce virginal autonomy. In this context Kali is considered the 'forceful' form of the great goddess Durga.

Kali is represented as a Black woman with four arms; in one hand she has a sword, in another the head of the demon she has slain, with the other two she is encouraging her worshippers. For earrings she has two dead bodies and wears a necklace of skulls ; her only clothing is a girdle made of dead men's hands, and her tongue protrudes from her mouth. Her eyes are red, and her face and breasts are besmeared with blood. She stands with one foot on the thigh, and another on the breast of her husband.

Kali's fierce appearances have been the subject of extensive descriptions in several earlier and modern works. Though her fierce form is filled with awe- inspiring symbols, their real meaning is not what it first appears- they have equivocal significance.

Kali's blackness symbolizes her all-embracing, comprehensive nature, because black is the color in which all other colors merge; black absorbs and dissolves them. 'Just as all colors disappear in black, so all names and forms disappear in her' (Mahanirvana Tantra). Or black is said to represent the total absence of color, again signifying the nature of Kali as ultimate reality. This in Sanskrit is named as nirguna (beyond all quality and form). Either way, Kali's black color symbolizes her transcendence of all form.
(IMG:http://www.exoticindiaart.com/artimages/db09.jpg)

I love Kali. She is very much a living lesson which is learned by shocking people out of old thought patterns. She represents our discomfort in facing our own mortality, and the transience of our own being. More than just a personification, she is the reigning Queen of what she teaches, and she extends beyond the realm of literary figures of speech. She is shocking, she is unapologizing, and she is beautiful.

I personally think of her as manifest love read up on Crowleys views on it as self destructive.

I had bought a statue of her a while (years) back and had left it in my trunk for a very long time. It was wrapped up and "sealed" by the store owner, so I felt like I could take my time. It took me a few years to work up the courage to put her on my altar. When I finally did, beautiful hell had broken loose. There were a few attempted suicides, schizophrenic breakdowns, slashed tires and general violence. One of my coworkers had called in that night because she'd mysteriously gotten violently ill... around the time that the consecration ceremony was done. But enough of the drama.....

Since then, things have calmed drastically. She has proven to be a profound teacher of seminal insights. She has taught that to search for some ultimate truth to life is to miss the point entirely. That the real key to happiness is to learn to stop telling oneself "no", in all aspects of your life. That attachment is not desire- it's stagnation.

I don't believe in divinity, per se. I believe that there is no end to personal change, even for a Goddess. I've seen her use techniques of her own devising. She is powerful, but I believe that she has earned that power over a very long time.

Above all else, she has shown that the ego exists. That our fundamental sense of self is viable. The illusion of illusion is produced in the realization that we were not meant (if our priority is some kind of spiritual maturity) to think about ourselves.

Beyond general insight, she has been perceived as a mind-blowingly subtle entity with a wicked sense of humor.

Her other usual visages are things like the Morrigan, Mara (Latvian Goddess), and the Black virgin Mary (although many entities take turns with that one).

She is also very big on sexual alchemy

This post has been edited by moonburn: Jan 4 2006, 11:55 AM

i have written a poem

with Kali in it

and even then she worked into my life

she is a very powerful deity

i would only call upon her in a severe emergency situation?

JMO

Kalima is indeed ancient and yes i agree that she keeps transforming..One practice i dont agree with however is the giving of blood to kali,which is unnecessary in my opinion.If one looks thoroughly at the legend that is kali ,it is told that once a demon had gotten so powerful from recieving boons from the trinity that it started to threaten the very essence and fabric of the universe.
Durga with the blessings of all the celestial beings was despatched to get rid of the demon but when she slew his head,from every drop of blood that fell to the groud frm the demon a thousand more of the same demon sprang forth(due to the boon it had gotten).Durga,pissed off because of this frowed her eyebrow in anger and from this anger the entity kali was created.
Kali was commanded to not let a single drop of blood fall to the ground when durga slew the demons and so she went about drinking the blood of the thousands upon thousands of demons..Once the battle ended and with durga gone Kali, drunk with the blood of the thousand of demons started to lose herself and started dancing furiously around te world.The irony of this was that the very entity created to save the universe was thru her dance abt to destroy it.This was when the celestials pleaded to Shiva to stop the mess and Shiva agreed and flung himslef on the ground..Once Kali(an aspect of shakti so a consort of shiva) stepped on the great lord she realized that she had stepped on The Lord Her Husband and came to her senses..
Though she is a wonderful mother annd protector,Her very creation and purpose to drink the blood of demons has also led to her one single weakness(if one can call that a weakness)that is blood.And this has led to the bad rep that she has gotten from many over the years..Treat her as a mother friend guru and not some blood craving spirit that you have to offer blood to and everything will be fine..Om Shakti..

Thank you so much for starting this topic. I find Kali to be one the most interesting and favorite Goddesses of mine.

This post has been edited by Whitewolf: Nov 18 2006, 10:04 PM

Kalima is indeed ancient and yes i agree that she keeps transforming..

I found a Hindu oriented guided visualisation exercise on the web about 12-18 months ago which I did some experimentation with, and ended up getting a very clear mental image of a black (as in onyx black, not African/Indian) woman. This also happened before I knew anything about Kali at all...it was only after another coincidence involving Wikipedia that I found some info on her and started putting two and two together. Given that my background is Christian, I initially felt a high degree of reluctance and ambivalence about focusing on her, but as time went on and I read more, I began to feel more and more of a pull toward her.

I asked her for help in leaving a bad relationship which had dragged on for six years, which I feel she did help me with, and there was also another prayer in relation to a medical issue I had, which I again feel was answered. The single biggest thing has also been that I've customarily had problems for most of my life from time to time with passing spirits/thoughtforms at night; it got so bad during my adolescence that it became the main reason why I became largely nocturnal, purely because I found it more likely to get peaceful sleep during the day. Burning sandalwood incense (which I've since read is one of Kali's offerings) and using a mantra of hers that I found online however enabled me for the first time to cure the problem, and it was the first thing I'd found that worked. I used to pray in a Christian context about it, and that never did.

The only negative experience I've had with her came a few nights ago, when a friend came over to create a servitor that he'd drawn a sigil/circle for, and wanted help in energy raising. The servitor is vampiric, based on a vampiric character in some fiction he wrote, and he also ended up using a certain amount of his own blood both on the sigil and on the material base that was to house the servitor. I was actually ambivalent about it, but agreed to help him. Maybe it was just me, but on using the mantra I knew at the beginning of the session to call Kali into the room, there was a greater sense of interest in and approval of what we were doing than I've probably ever had from her before. This really disturbed me.

She does have a terrible reputation online among just about everyone other than orthodox Hindus, from what I've seen. There are websites referring to her as, "The Hindu Satan," and most of the material I've read on Paganism also seems to have her blacklisted as one of the godforms that supposedly should not be worked with. In my reading online I had of course previously run into material about her Vama and/or Smashana aspects, but I'd also read about the aspect of her worshipped in Dakshineswa, whose two primary saints were apparently unbelievably positive and spiritual people. The other thing that I haven't understood is that according to most of what I've read, evoking her magickally outside of an orthodox Hindu framework should most likely have literally got me killed, since apparently there have been people who have evoked her/called to her who have died, seemingly as a result. Except for the one incident above though, I honestly don't feel that she has ever been anything but good to me.

I admit that I've found some of her more disturbing elements useful even already in my own development, as she has encouraged me not to be excessively judgemental, and to try and assess things/people more closely before dismissing/condemning them out of hand...so I know she isn't entirely sweetness and light, and I honestly probably wouldn't be interested in her if she was.

However, at the same time, I don't consider myself wanting to be truly left hand path, either. The friend who I usually do magick with has recommended repeatedly that I find another godform to focus on, but despite this internal conflict, I feel that I've grown to love Kali, and I'm at the point where I now don't want to stop worshipping her. I don't really know what to do.

hi Petrus. Kali is fond of Blood. so any ritual where you willingly sacrifice some blood is mostly welcome. Anyway you wanted to take part in the ritual and it seemed to be a good one so Kali approved of it. there is no reason as she would not. was that part that shocked you?

Kali is not a Goddess to be taken lightly and think of her as so forgiving though. if all Gods were so kind, then ther would be none to put the real shit dudes into control or to keep the balance. Even among the good sides ones, there need to be destroyers and thats the role of Kali.

Just know well what you are doing as you would with dynamite. dont do mistakes as it could be costly. I have not yet worked with Kali as i dont know much on her and any rituals on her. but i was thinkin of workin with her destructive form.



mystick

Anyway you wanted to take part in the ritual and it seemed to be a good one so Kali approved of it. there is no reason as she would not. was that part that shocked you?

I guess it was, yes. If I'm honest, I would have to admit that there has been some self-deception on my part.

Kali is not a Goddess to be taken lightly and think of her as so forgiving though. if all Gods were so kind, then ther would be none to put the real shit dudes into control or to keep the balance. Even among the good sides ones, there need to be destroyers and thats the role of Kali.

It isn't her duality in more general terms that I'm having a problem with. I guess I was worried about the blood element, in terms of her wanting more of it. What I mentioned doing in the parent post was something for boosting a servitor; it wasn't for her directly. I'm worried about the idea that she would like me to start offering her blood directly, and on a routine basis. I've customarily offered sandalwood incense and food, a few minutes before eating myself, and that seems to have worked ok...especially after I started following that up with burnt spice (turmeric, paprika, and garam masala) offerings as well. What I'm primarily worried about is the idea where when I'm doing something, it starts feeling as though she isn't going to respond *unless* blood is involved, irrespective of the other things I try.

Just know well what you are doing as you would with dynamite. dont do mistakes as it could be costly.

Yes...She is dangerous, and in some ways very alien; that's part of what I love about her.

I have not yet worked with Kali as i dont know much on her and any rituals on her.

As you've said to me, be very, very careful. From reading and my own impressions, if she is willing to work with you at all, she will want an actual relationship with you...people attempting to utilise her for workings on a one-off basis generally doesn't work well at all, from what I've read...the results can be disastrous. A number of the people here seem to be fairly secularly minded, in that they think of godforms in particular primarily in terms of how they can aid workings on a single basis, rather than about establishing a longer term relationship with a deity which isn't necessarily based purely on what they can do for you. Said secular/pragmatic approach is unlikely to work with Kali, from what I've seen...viewing her like Santa Claus can cause problems. ;-)

The other real danger with her is that if you're someone she is ok with, it's fine...but if for whatever reason you're someone that she doesn't want to work with, and you try and contact her, from what I've read she will almost completely destroy your life. She hasn't done that to me, but I haven't been able to find any other accounts of people where she hasn't when they have initially called to her. She may not do it to you either...the problem is that until you make initial contact yourself, you just can't know. I think that because to some extent with me, she initiated contact, that was probably what kept me safe.

but i was thinkin of workin with her destructive form.

Well, I don't know how much experience you have doing really dangerous things...so I can't comment on that at all. I don't really have any such experience...unless you count attempting to evoke Kali for the few workings I've done in general as dangerous, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Despite everything else though, I still focus on the help that I feel She has given me, and the affinity I do feel with her.

Jai Ma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
<br/>http://kamalkapoor.com/wallpapers/wallpaper.asp?type=2&name=Kali%20Ma&id=59
<br/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztUIo3andAk

This post has been edited by Petrus: Nov 25 2007, 01:51 AM

I was going to re-edit my last reply to this thread, but I apparently no longer can.

Anyway, a few hours ago I tried to pray to Kali about the blood issue...essentially ask her whether or not it's true. I didn't get a yes or no as such, but I did start to feel more calm, and also very clearly had the thought, "Do not be afraid," which seemed to echo or repeat around four times.

The thing about this that I actually found interesting was the lack of contraction; I'd normally use the term, "Don't be afraid," myself...but in this particular case it was very clearly split into the two words. I feel a bit better about it, now.

Well infact i am currently working with Hindu Gods but not doing the normal rituals. i am looking for secret rituals that are real powerful. I have been doing Hanuman Chalisa for quite some weeks along with Bajrang baan. As for Kali, she is here for a purpose and she is one who can bestow real kool powers to her priests. But as i say, till you dont know how dynamite works and how to use that, i prefer not do that. But for you , as she is ok with you and she did tell you to chill about it, so be it.

More on blood will be in PM if you want :-)

As for Kali, she is here for a purpose and she is one who can bestow real kool powers to her priests.

I know this is probably going to sound cliched and arrogant, like I'm bragging...and I apologise if it does...but although I have petitioned Kali Mahamaya (the Great Sorceress) for help at times, I will admit that my motivation with Kali hasn't been cool powers. My background was Christian initially, and I got very tired of living like an atheist with God as an abstract concept.

I wanted a living, breathing, active deity with power and majesty, whose love I could really feel, who was willing and able to offer me spiritual protection, and who, despite this, still isn't too proud or arrogant to come down out of her own realm and engage in intimacy rather than abstract distance. Kali has given me that, and I'm realising now that I simply need to ignore all of the trash talk about her on the web...when they call her a monster and insist that that is all she is, the only thing they really prove is that they don't know my Mother. There are things that I do offer her, but I'm not going to be offering her blood, and I don't need to.

I'm also now remembering something which happened a few days after I initially started offering to her, although I feel that there was still some contact with her before that. Stepping outside of the supermarket opposite my house, I looked up into the night sky and realised that, despite my current lack of money, and much of my life now spent alone, I had something which my earlier relationship and all my years in Christianity had never been able to give me...I felt whole. Customary to Kali's traditional role, it also wasn't a wholeness that has come from the amount of stuff that I've gained...it's actually come from all the needless baggage that was burned away by her.

Try calling Kali in a cavalier, disrespectful manner purely for help with your current spell, and you may well be shown why she is called the Destroyer. Love her, and while you might not be able to move objects around or fly, you'll still be blown away by her magic.

This post has been edited by Petrus: Nov 25 2007, 03:50 PM

hey man..i used to be a medium for kali for well over 2 to 3 years..here are a few things about her..she is first and foremost a guardian diety.the realm of the graveyard is under her so,thats where she meditates and lives.she is also a huntress in that she hunts down and captures manevolent entities.some guardian dieties like hanuman will not enter certain places which they view as "unclean" but for kali she can go wherever she wants to get whatever she wants.

shes an extremely loving mother who gives her children(devotee) whatever they want,but if they take advantage of her motherly love they will get punished in the end.dont work with her if you want a one off thing,she doesnt work that way.work as her child with love,all forms of the mother goddess including kali are slaves for love.so touch her with love for a mother.

close your eyes chant her name repeatedly(midnite is the best) and try and project her in the middle of a graveyard sitting cross legged and meditating.you will reach her very fast.i highly recommend the use of her yantra(seal) and proper prayer metod for you to work closely with her.i can teach them to you if you want.Om shakti..

i can teach them to you if you want.Om shakti..

Yes I'd like that very much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In terms of the blood issue...I found this in the Kalika Purana.

"The flesh of the antelope and the rhinoceros give my beloved Kali delight for 500 years. By a human sacrifice, attended by the forms laid down, Devi is pleased for a thousand years; and by the sacrifice of three men, a hundred thousand years. By human flesh Kamakhya, Chandika, and Bhairava, who assume my shape, are pleased a thousand years. Blood drawn from the offerer's own body is looked upon as a proper oblation to the Goddess Chandika.

Let the sacrificer repeat the word Kali twice, and say, 'Hail, Devi! Goddess of thunder; hail, iron-sceptered Goddess!' Let him then take the axe in his hand, and again invoke the same by the Kalaratri text, as follows: 'Let the sacrificer say, Hrang, Hrang! Kali, Kali! O horrid-toothed Goddess! Eat, cut, destroy all the malignant; cut with this axe; bind, bind; sieze, sieze; drink blood! Spheng, Spheng! Secure, secure. Salutation to Kali."

Is this consistent with your invocation of her?

This post has been edited by Petrus: Nov 26 2007, 11:34 AM

actually most english translations i see are grossly misinterpreted my friend..some delibrately done by the then christian interpretors who do not know the meaning of symbolism.kali is the first goddess of the ten mahavidya devis of the tantra path.you should look into the tantrik path to really discover the devis of which kali is the first.

by the way do you need the yantra for kali which you can draw on copper ad recite her mantra into?

by the way do you need the yantra for kali which you can draw on copper ad recite her mantra into?

Yes, I do...thank you.

Kali is the only God I consider worthy enough to be represented on my Altar. She is truly my Mother, throughout a lot of religious and magickal experimentation, She has remained the thread through them all, no matter what my beliefs, She was there, with me, for me.

I don't work with Her though, I don't pray to Her, She isn't for magick...She is just there for love. Her love is mighty and terrifying, and one of the strongest and most comforting spiritual experiences I can have.

I'm in the camp that hates how She gets painted with the Great Mothers, and this loving figure, gentle and firm. Kali is vicious, and terrifying, but to Her children, that violence and destruction, that is love. The most peaceful experiences I gain from Her, are the dreams and meditations where she rends me, and devours me. That is Her love.

The most peaceful experiences I gain from Her, are the dreams and meditations where she rends me, and devours me. That is Her love.

Here's a totally, bat#$%! crazy thought. When you were having these dreams of her rending you...Did you ever try and fight back?

I admit, on the face of it, that sounds beyond insane. She's a Goddess, and possibly one of the most powerful out there. I will also admit that my own feelings alternate at the moment anyway between the sort of extreme positivity you mention, and that I've written about, and being terrified utterly out of my mind. But notice...I'm talking purely about trying to fight back...I'm not talking necessarily about winning.

I've been in certain scenarios before where I was being attacked, where logic and everything I could see told me that it was hopeless. I was going to lose. At times I did...but there were other times when I overcame the scenario more often than I expected if I absolutely flung myself at it. The thing I started to realise though (and this is going to sound horribly cliched, and I apologise) was that it wasn't about whether I was going to win or not...it was about realising that in fighting back anyway, I was being true to myself and doing something that I could feel positive about later. I found that I felt a lot better about myself if, even when I was in a scenario where I lost the fight in question, I'd actually tried to do something rather than just stand there and take it.

The other thing is...I just recently came out of an (on the whole) extremely unhappy relationship that had lasted for 5 years. My father stayed in the wrong relationship for 35 years...which is half the average human lifespan. Eventually with my 5 year relationship though, I came to realise the truth of a particular Buddhist story I was told once...where apparently the master began to beat one of the students daily with a stick...and only stopped when the student eventually held out his hand and caught the stick in mid flight, rather than allow himself to be hit again. That is the scenario I was in with my relationship, and it is the scenario which (IMHO) the American people are currently in with George W. Bush.

I've noticed that a lot of feminists and previously abused women have adopted Kali as a patron, and I think that's worth mentioning in this context. If Kali *does* protect such women, then I have to believe that she would also try to impart the lesson that you're only going to continue to get hit for as long as you're willing to take it...and sometimes the learning of such lessons comes very hard. Somehow (and I'm possibly completely wrong here) I also get the impression that if a person did try to fight back during such a dream and did so while still maintaining an appropriately respectful mindset, Kali wouldn't necessarily be offended by it...she might even respect it. Not because, of course, such a fight is something that any human being possibly could have a prayer of winning...but because the fact that we couldn't win is itself exactly the point. We have enough of a spine to try, and are willing to indicate that we're not going to be completely subservient in the face of being torn apart, even if ultimately it is hopeless.

I'm going to offer a disclaimer to the above (and to everything I've written in this thread, for that matter) by adding that until I've actually had direct communication in the manner that Om has described, I'm willing to speculate that I possibly haven't actually ever had genuine contact with Kali at all myself up to this point. (Except for once, which I am inclined to believe was genuine still)

I'm also willing to speculate that when I do attempt the type of contact that Om has mentioned, that I will encounter a being who is completely different in every respect to what I was expecting. I will admit that part of me is scared rigid at the idea of doing it...another part of me however is strongly anticipating it. I've often had the thought that I don't want to get closer to Kali because I'm not afraid of her...I want to get closer to her at least partly because in a lot of ways in my life up to this point, I've been afraid of pretty much everything...and I feel that she has already started to help me deal with that.

A friend of mine has been warning me to be very, very careful about this...and has pointed me to the mountains of other stuff online that consistently depicts Kali as a monster. What he doesn't understand though is that I'm glad if she's a monster, and that that is a big part of what draws me to her, as well as the loving aspect. In terms of a God, I need love, yes...but part of me also needs a monster.
Jai Ma.

Here's a totally, bat#$%! crazy thought. When you were having these dreams of her rending you...Did you ever try and fight back?

Originally I did, but I didn't want to. When it would start, I'd feel the calm and love from it, but my conditioned part of my mind would be (sorry to go macrolinguist) "Do not want" and convince me to fight. It never did anything, good or ill.

When I finally learnt to ignore my conditioning, I was able to give in, and surrender, and that is when the peace and love really were experienced.

I admit, on the face of it, that sounds beyond insane. She's a Goddess, and possibly one of the most powerful out there. I will also admit that my own feelings alternate at the moment anyway between the sort of extreme positivity you mention, and that I've written about, and being terrified utterly out of my mind. But notice...I'm talking purely about trying to fight back...I'm not talking necessarily about winning.

*nods* I understand that, a lot of my world view revolves around trying. Succeeding is nice, but trying is what counts. Yet, I don't see that with Mother, I get the sense She appreciates it in my life, but with Her it is unnecessary. I almost equate it to the Mother who conditions Her child to be strong in the world, to show a brave face, but says to them to be open and honest with Her, to be "weak".

I've noticed that a lot of feminists and previously abused women have adopted Kali as a patron, and I think that's worth mentioning in this context. If Kali *does* protect such women, then I have to believe that she would also try to impart the lesson that you're only going to continue to get hit for as long as you're willing to take it...and sometimes the learning of such lessons comes very hard. Somehow (and I'm possibly completely wrong here) I also get the impression that if a person did try to fight back during such a dream and did so while still maintaining an appropriately respectful mindset, Kali wouldn't necessarily be offended by it...she might even respect it. Not because, of course, such a fight is something that any human being possibly could have a prayer of winning...but because the fact that we couldn't win is itself exactly the point. We have enough of a spine to try, and are willing to indicate that we're not going to be completely subservient in the face of being torn apart, even if ultimately it is hopeless.

My main "issue" with this statement, is that it equates the violence of Kali, with our human (and western) notions of violence. Kali respects strength, but not insubordination (wow, sounds like She's my boss), so you're right about respect, you'd have to fight Her properly, with respect, for it to go well. But Kali, in some traditions (cause really Hinduism isn't a religion, it's a bunch of religions that got lumped into one) represents release, which I don't really buy, but I find that Her Destruction is a sign of impermanence. I actually have a t-shirt I made (but I don't wear tees anymore) based on one of the teachings I got from Her, it's Her Yantra, and underneath it is says "Life may be scary, but it's only temporary."

The dismemberment Kali offers me, is a symbol of that impermanence, a reminder that I, as Ges, will end, which is a reassuring lesson, it also teaches me, that I, as the consciousness driving Ges, will continue, which is also reassuring. It's my term to sound cliched, but I like to believe, that every time Kali devours me in a meditation, the person that reforms is better than the one who was devoured. Which of course, isn't an unfounded belief, you see it in a lot of Shamanic work and Underworld journeys, and that's how I see it sometimes. Kali, as well as being a real entity, and in many ways my Mother, She is also my Underworld, my Bardo, and it is through Her that the "lesser" parts of me, can sometimes be taken away...granted I prefer to work on those things on my own, but helping hands as welcome, heh.

I will admit that part of me is scared rigid at the idea of doing it...another part of me however is strongly anticipating it. I've often had the thought that I don't want to get closer to Kali because I'm not afraid of her...I want to get closer to her at least partly because in a lot of ways in my life up to this point, I've been afraid of pretty much everything...and I feel that she has already started to help me deal with that.

A friend of mine has been warning me to be very, very careful about this...and has pointed me to the mountains of other stuff online that consistently depicts Kali as a monster. What he doesn't understand though is that I'm glad if she's a monster, and that that is a big part of what draws me to her, as well as the loving aspect. In terms of a God, I need love, yes...but part of me also needs a monster.
Jai Ma.

Kali is a monster in many ways. There is no denying (unless you're a newager...) that She is violent, destructive, and deadly. One needs only read the myths, or the hymns (I love the hymns) to really get a glimpse of the terror that lies within Her. This goes back to the release idea, Buddhism has it's roots in Hinduism, and some of the branches that became Hinduism were actually fairly Buddhist before Buddhism, teaching mainly non-attachment. Kali is terrifying, why? Because She'll kill you, She'll rip you to pieces and devour you. But these things are only truly terrifying when you are suffering attachment, to your life, to your job, to your body. Kali doesn't scare me, because She reminds me that I'm free. As silly as it sounds, my only fear of Kali, is that I'll disappoint Her.

Most people I know who work with Kali have one thing in common, not long after they began seriously working with Her, their lives "went to hell", and all of those people who stayed with Her through that Hell have one thing in common, they came out better. Their better people (whatever that means to them), and they are in better situations (again, whatever that means to them), but it's not that Kali came into their lives and said "Alright, this relationship sucks, so your wife, car accident, this job, not good, it'll go bankrupt, now here is a better wife, and a better job," it's nothing like that, Kali reminds us of impermanence, that all things will pass, all things return to Her (so they say), and by freeing us of that, we are free to understand, and make better choices. She drops the destruction into our lives, but it is up to us to make use of it.

Okay, it's late, and I'm starting to wax philosophical and agapic, so I'll stop here.

But Kali, in some traditions (cause really Hinduism isn't a religion, it's a bunch of religions that got lumped into one) represents release, which I don't really buy,

not good statement at all. Hinduism is one of the most primitive religions of this world. If not the most. it aint a bunch of religions lumped.
As for Kali attacking her priests in visions and dreams, its a commons means for her to manifest to her priests in the start :-)

close your eyes chant her name repeatedly(midnite is the best) and try and project her in the middle of a graveyard sitting cross legged and meditating.you will reach her very fast.

I tried this, earlier...no verbal contact...but initially tried to get the visual of her meditating in graveyard, as you said...then found said mental image of her actually coming back to...my own chair in front of the computer here...then her opening her eyes, (impression of sound here...scream/ululation) leaning forward, throwing her upper right arm back, (very distinct visual of four arms, upper and lower) and sweeping my tower and monitor off the desk and into the nearby wall. Then a visual of her leaping backward from the chair, almost completely horizontally, and out through the bedroom window.

My imagination, or something else...?

This post has been edited by Petrus: Nov 28 2007, 10:25 AM

not good statement at all. Hinduism is one of the most primitive religions of this world. If not the most. it aint a bunch of religions lumped.

The origin of Hinduism (or what we classify as HInduism) was a single religion. But in the millenia since it form, it grew into many different branches of belief, philosophy and practice. It's only since the time of Colonialism has it really be reformed into a single belief. But as you can see with the variety of conflicting myths and attributes that appear within Hinduism, it isn't a unified faith. That's why if you study older texts from various parts of the Indian sub-continent you'll see a lot more diversity, because it really was a wide spectrum of beliefs.

Some might prefer to term them sects, rather than separate religions, but when you're even having different creation stories, and supreme Gods, I think it is divergent enough to be considered a separate religion. It gets equated to Judaism/Christianity/Islam. Three religions from a single source, with a lot of similarities at the core. Hinduism basically was the same way, until the Brits came in, and to them, well, on strange multi-armed God was the same as the next, so it got considered a singular belief, and eventually that influenced the way the population viewed, and acted through the beliefs.

Tantrism,Vaishnavism,Shaivism etc etc etc yes they all are so different they look almost as different religions but you have to look beyond the symbolism to realise everything is essentially the same.In the Vishnu dominant Vaishnavism,it is written as Shiva and Hari(Vishnu) are in fact one,in Shaivism it is written as Shiva is in everything and in tantrism Shiva can not move without Shakti and Vice Versa.

Oru Kani Narlu Artuku Samam is a famous saying for kali which means Sacrificing One Green Lemon is equals to sacrificing Four Goats to Kali.

In Tantrism we dont view the world as an illusion but as real.We dont say no to the pleasures of life but indulge in them.But we also do not become slave to them.In tantrism,we cannot achieve spiritual path without material path and material pth without spiritual path,both are inter connected.

When visualising use forth as strong an emotion as possible,thats the driving force to contact her,human emotions.Anger,extreme love,Devotion etc etc.Use it to power your calling of her the next time.But of course do it in a proper way,give her respect.

here are some stuff i compiled from the internet that could be helpful to use to work with Kali
[attachment=675:attachment]
[attachment=676:attachment]

This post has been edited by mystick: Nov 29 2007, 09:14 PM

Tantrism,Vaishnavism,Shaivism etc etc etc yes they all are so different they look almost as different religions but you have to look beyond the symbolism to realise everything is essentially the same.In the Vishnu dominant Vaishnavism,it is written as Shiva and Hari(Vishnu) are in fact one,in Shaivism it is written as Shiva is in everything and in tantrism Shiva can not move without Shakti and Vice Versa.

*nods* We're in the same argument, I think I just have a stricter definition for religion (as that in and of itself isn't the most exactingly defined)

Mystick, thanks for the collection of poems/prayers/mantras, I didn't have all of those.

Thinking on that line, it might seem cheesy to some, but the band Dissection (who are an interesting band anyways) have a song called Maha Kali, and I actually enjoy it, I find it really suits Her. It's from the terrible and ecstatic view, which tends to be mine.

Mystick, thanks for the collection of poems/prayers/mantras, I didn't have all of those.

my pleasure :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztUIo3andAk

I found this a few months ago...I like closing my eyes to it...it tends to also lead to me swaying a bit...it's very hypnotic.

(IMG:http://www.iloveulove.com/images/chamunda.jpg)

This image was from an essay I found on the web about Kali. It's of Chamunda, which apparently was another name for Kali after she had slain two particular demons, Chanda and Munda. As the article said, that statue is Nepalese.

I also found a form of praise I liked in one of the YouTube video comments...
Mother of darkness, mother of light, we love thee.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Petrus: Dec 7 2007, 11:38 AM

I bought a Kali statue last Monday. I'm not exactly sure which aspect of her it is meant to represent, but it is almost identical to this picture. I would have preferred one with the hand mudras, but the bookshop I was at didn't have one, and I didn't know where else in my city might have one.

I don't have an altar as such yet, although I do have a cabinet in my workroom which I use as one...in terms of the top of it. I currently keep the statue on a bookshelf opposite my bed in my room though, because I haven't been using the workroom much lately because of the heat, but I still want her close.

Unlike the earlier one here, and one or so other accounts which I've read, since obtaining the statue I haven't had any negative or chaotic effects whatsoever...in fact if anything, it's been the opposite...I feel that she is blessing me. I've currently got somewhat more money than I've had in years, as well as having obtained a source of supplemental income. After having been in seclusion for close to six years, with my housemate, his girlfriend, my brother, and their friends, I'm rebuilding an offline social network as well...and I'm also going to be attending my father's wedding in March, after having been estranged from him for close to two years, as well.

I've also noticed that my diet has spontaneously been moving further in the direction of vegetarianism over the last week, as well. I don't think becoming vegan or even lacto entirely is ever going to happen for me...but there have been times recently where when going through the supermarket or past a butcher I "just happened" to run into the part selling veggie burgers...when buying them wasn't something I'd usually think of, either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

They don't seem to be doing me any harm, though...for the last few years in summer I've been getting some oedema in my lower legs and ankles which I assumed had been due to the heat, and on seeing a doctor about it a few months ago he was unable to determine the cause. However, when I went through a period earlier this week where I didn't eat anything for a few days but the store bought veggie burgers, I noticed one morning that the swelling was down a lot more than it has been recently, my renal function seemed a bit better, (even tho the GP said my blood test showed the kidney was fine) and the weather wasn't bothering me as much either. So although I don't have plans to move to them primarily, (aside from anything else, I'd simply get bored out of my skull) I think I am going to include them from now on at times in my diet.

I admit...the one thing that has often confused me is that, given how much negative material exists on the Web about Kali, and conversely, how good I feel she has been to me, to be honest I sometimes find myself wondering if I'm focussing on the same Goddess. Despite the initial fear that I had, I feel now as though Kali's entry to my life has been one of the best things that's ever happened to me. Jai Ma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Okey i read a line here a line there but thats not the point i somehow feel attracted to the goddes kali and i have no idea why i know nothing about her i have no indian roots or relations.
I need to study more on this god but well i was going to ask something and forgot.
Hmm well i,ll ask when i know what. Oh yes now i remember can there be some logical reason why i feel drawn to this god?

late edit
I am starting to understand now i just actually read the posts.
This is surley a god i want to know closer much closer.

This post has been edited by jlx: Jan 21 2008, 11:38 AM