The Costs Of Magick, Is a ritual and a sacrifice really enough? Options

All magick has a cost. A lot of practitioners can psychologically negotiate around them, so they say - I was certainly of that temperment when I first began exploring magick, I wanted something for nothing. But sometimes we have a hard time knowing what's required of us by whatever force we're invoking, and we aren't sure what to give in exchange. Are sacrifices of material things enough? Incense to 'feed' the spiritual force? Our immediate time and attention to give moments of our own life over to magickal purpose? There may be small costs to gain immediate gratification of our intentions, but is that all it really costs?

I've been in the mood to ask myself these questions, lately, and as my professed paradigm dictates, I began to observe.

For context, here's my recent journey through life in a nutshell.

When I left home, I moved in with a friend and her family, and they took care of me. Then I moved in with a partner who was a few years older than me, and he took care of me. Then we moved back to my hometown, moved in with my friend, and by and large, they paid all the bills. Then my friend and i moved back into our respective homes, and then eventually I moved out of my home and into hers to live with their family again.

It began to be obvious that I was not doing a good job of learning how to support myself, and that I had nothing to rely on but these other people. That was the first instance in which I used magick which was singularly for self-growth, and no immediate gratification.

First of all, my journey since that moment, has been more magickal, more filled with signs and synchronicities, more interesting experiences in consciousness and psychological developement, than any period in my life. Now, before this period I was already tapping the Source - connecting to the divine intelligence - to about half the degree that I do now, and much of my essential paradigm remains the same. Parts have been expanded upon, and more thoroughly digested, so that I know now much more than my younger self did. I had achieved lots of magickal successes by that point, but in quality they lacked the 'force' that my successes have now. They're more impactful now.

Then, the cost of magick seemed to be simply the way it would impact your life, and could be negotiated simply by dealing intelligently with that effect, and trying to predict ahead of time the areas that it could affect you, and how to prepare in advance. Now I see it the same way, but I've started to think that negotiating it like that, viewing it as how to avoid the cost, has actually cheated me out of a lot of growth in the past.

I did magick to cut myself off from the negative influences in my life, so that I could begin fullfilling my potential as quickly as possible. Given my situation it was a success, I was 'freed' from my home, which was stifling me bit by bit - and in retrospect I would have grown far more if I had immediately gotten serious about life, and really done my best to be independant; instead I coasted on the new found freedom until I hit a point where I would have to get serious, but instead I negotiated myself into a position where i could be free in one sense, and not have to deal with the responsibility. Now, looking back at what choices I made and why, I realize that I had actually lost the most important part of that freedom by avoiding the initial cost - my immature attitude about life.

I did magick for love. It seemed to be the appropriate next step, and my magick for freedom had worked so well. And I had love, coming in from boys everywhere. Again, I was unwilling to accept the way love would impact my life, so I negotiated by manipulating the people that fell in love with me to being more like entertainment than relationships. Eventually I forgot to learn the lesson that love is supposed to teach, and am still working on getting it back, the hard way.

I did magick for power, and I was given respect by my peers, adoration by my teachers, and a voice that made everyone sure I was right. When the impact happened, I negotiated my way around the responsibility of that identity in life, using that same gift to alleivate that responsibility for the things I said or did. But eventually, my manipulation became lying, and eventually that collapsed, and I no longer had those gifts.

And I had very little powerful magick after that. At this point is when I began to explore deeply the understanding of consciousness that I have now - While I probably wasn't consciously aware of it then, I had recieved a harsh punishment for abusing the gifts I demanded, and giving nothing in return. That punishment, however, redirected my interests inward rather than outward, and I became more diligent with my analysis of myself, no longer overly concerned with expressing myself, so much as learning what it was I was expressing. So my innate energy for exploration was forcefully redirected towards personal growth. I could have maybe used it for some other sort of exploration, drugs, crime, etc... but I was also in a position where those things weren't within easy reach, and so far I hadn't developed the ability to 'reach' for anything in life - I had skipped those lessons that were the cost of my magick.

And when i reached the limit of that growth, or what seemed to be in any case, when the world around me had become stagnant, and i was quickly stagnating with it, that is when I did magick for no other reason than to know what I needed to do to grow out of it, away from it.

And what I got, was a crash course in the same lessons I avoided before, but instead of getting the gains, I was just paying off my debt. I got freedom, in a position where not taking it seriously would get me homeless. I got Love, from someone who I owed a debt to, and who I lived with, and who I didn't really know enough to be sure that he would never let me live on the street. he made me carry my weight, so I was given a 'guide' through my task, in effect, and he gave me the fear that I needed to straighten up, since I didn't know for sure he would just leave me behind if I was a burden. In other words this love wasn't under my control. Finally, I was exposed to a culture of people who are inherently distrustful. So, I had to learn how to fulfill a good ethical code when it came to dealing with people, and never abuse the respect I work to gain.

I had to do the work as it was put in front of me to fulfill those tasks, and now, two years after coming to new york, I am on the bring of really and truly being on my own, independant, for the first time ever. And, it occurred to me that there is a bit of fear there, during meditation today. The fear of not being prepared enough, not having learned my lessons well enough, to exercise the gifts effectively in life, yet. And, following this observation was the thought that I should use that fear to do well. it is worth noting, I think, that the meditation was an excercise for recalling the various seals in the Necronomicon, the most recent of which had been Asarualim, following the construction of the composite seal on the cover of the necromonicon, the Arra/Agga/bandar glyph. As soon as that thought crossed my mind, of using my fear, a counterthought intervened comparing the use of fear as the use of the 'darkside' which is a relative term for an aspect of my paradigm on how we derive motivation in life, from a magickal perspective. That if I am to truly give my intentions over to the 'light' or the opposing archetype to the 'dark' in whatever form, then it seems i should derive motivation from the deliberate want to do well. And then all this thought of the costs of magick occured, and I followed it through my life for a time, being shown the places in which costs were incurred, and not paid, and the places where the gifts had been taken away and how.

Now, by now i've learned those lessons, at least as much as i can learn them where i am - the only way up, is up. So, I think I was finally able to see and understand more thoroughly how magick has affected my life, and how the laws have manifested themselves. It occurred to me to post it here because when I was an initiate cruising the 'net to find out all I could about the things i couldn't buy books on at my local bookstore. I wanted experiences, and effective magick, and wanted to see opinions and examples that weren't written down anywhere. And in all that, all the talk of costs was vague, and there were theories on how to avoid costs, theories about how karma doesn't exist, and they were so specific. it didn't occur to me then that wanting something for nothing is selfish. There is no balance. It's okay to be selfish, I think, in your magickal desires, certainly the desire to grow is selfish to some point of views, but if it is balanced with surrender and selflessness, work for the sake of work, doing well for the sake of doing well, balances that selfishness out.

This was all stuff no one taught me when I was a wee magician.

And it's worth mentioning, of course, that all of this stuff is going to happen in everyone's life. We're all offered the oppurtunity to learn lessons in life, it's why we're here, to understand. Spirituality is about exploring those lessons as they come, and using them to grow - magick is about Asking for those lessons, even if you don't know that's what you're asking for (because let's face it, your higher consciousness doesn't want material things...) and the cost of getting them is understanding what they teach and shouldering that responsibility wisely.

it's repeated everywhere, over and over again, that magick should be used responsibly, that you have to live the magick you work, that you get bad karma for bad magick, it's been said in a million different ways, but when it's explained, for some reason it's usually is something incredibly vague, and there is rarely talk of what happens when you do get around the cost.

hope someone gets something out of this post, sometime.

peace
B

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Its almost criminal to post after this wonderful account.

It is much appreciated and not unlike one sent to me a couple of years ago by an advanced magickian.

Indeed, we all have our lessons to learn and we all try to avoid them until we reach the point you did and you realize that to avoid them is to avoid living life and developing as a human being.

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Excellent example of the cost of cutting corners. Too many practioners, especially in my generation, use magick for convience, and have the singular goal of more power, status and riches. It can be a real culture shock to some of us older souls that believe that the purpose of magick is wisdom and knowledge, that with this comes power, and that power demands great responsibility. The truley wise understand that there is no bad luck, only opportunity. Opportunity for growth, change, re-birth. We openly embrace challange, and hold disdain for those that take the "easy" way out.

For me, the greatest cost of magick has been (and continues to be) an ever increasing disastifaction with the mudane, mortal existance. Work, social events (with non-magi) even certain aspects of family life seem blase in comparison to the magick. I catch myself sitting often times at my desk, staring into the astral, when I am interrupted by a client's phone call. An interruption that is aggrevating, but necessary to financial survival. Seems the more I climb the ladder of light, the more annoying everyday life becomes. The challenge for me is to view the sheep, excuse me, people, with compassion, and love them for their ignorance and shortcomings, rather than treat them as an ant farm merely here for my entertainment...

This post has been edited by Makavelli: Aug 9 2006, 09:22 AM

Excellent example of the cost of cutting corners. Too many practioners, especially in my generation, use magick for convience, and have the singular goal of more power, status and riches. It can be a real culture shock to some of us older souls that believe that the purpose of magick is wisdom and knowledge, that with this comes power, and that power demands great responsibility. The truley wise understand that there is no bad luck, only opportunity. Opportunity for growth, change, re-birth. We openly embrace challange, and hold disdain for those that take the "easy" way out.

For me, the greatest cost of magick has been (and continues to be) an ever increasing disastifaction with the mudane, mortal existance. Work, social events (with non-magi) even certain aspects of family life seem blase in comparison to the magick. I catch myself sitting often times at my desk, staring into the astral, when I am interrupted by a client's phone call. An interruption that is aggrevating, but necessary to financial survival. Seems the more I climb the ladder of light, the more annoying everyday life becomes. The challenge for me is to view the sheep, excuse me, people, with compassion, and love them for their ignorance and shortcomings, rather than treat them as an ant farm merely here for my entertainment...

Be very careful with that attitude, because it is very easy for that to escalate into outright hubris.

People exist for many different reasons. We have purposes to fulfull - a part of the system to perpetuate, if you will. I can understand, however, and often feel the same way. I think it is the tightness of these common dimensions - consciousness expands, new dimensions are added to our perceptions, and the few that we've been conscious of seem ordinary and normal.

However, I think that part of the effectiveness of a magickal lifestyle - that is, making that lifestyle of benefit to the macrocosmic system - is empathizing with those "sheep", and understanding how truly amazing they see life individually, even without the mystical dimension to their life. They are built to be satisfied with "less" because that is what they are here for, to tend to a different part of the system than we do.

Also, magicians tend to believe that we're the only ones looking into the higher dimensions and expanding our consciousness. that's not true. There are dimensions you and I will never see, because they aren't part of what we're here for. They are irrelevant to our purpose, but relavent to the purpose of others. I am constantly amazed by seemingly mundane people who understand and percieve the subtle dimensions of their own realm of daily life, even though they aren't magicians, sages, or particularly thoughtful people in general.

Bones, muslces, sinew, nerves, brain tissue... all of it and more is necessary to build a functioning lifeform, and all of those systems must function to the best of their abilities, and within the parameters of their functions. It is a manifestation of the principle of order. Our inherent inability to focus on and fullfill that purpose is a manifestation of the princple of chaos. When we surrender to Order, accept the system as it is, and accept the unequivocal truth of equanimity between one man and another, no matter his status or experience - then an aspect of the world around us is opened up so that we can see the inner workings of human kind.

You or I, or anyone else on this forum, are no better than any other person who has never even thought about magick or knows what a pentacle is. He is fulfilling his purpose, we are fulfilling our own.

peace

You are, of course correct in many regards. I too will be amazed at how certain unawakend people will will capture the essence of existence. My qualm is not with them, rather it is with those happily marching in step the same souless tune, trying in vain to achieve higher and higher states of social status, caught in an eternal blaze of unyeiding consumption that threatens to destroy everything in sight only to find that the hole in their soul never fills. These people are but lemmings approaching a cliff, and there are times I am tempted to give them a much deserved shove.


The word "hubris" is foreign to me. Pray tell, what is it's meaning?

This post has been edited by Makavelli: Aug 10 2006, 02:20 PM

The word "hubris" is foreign to me. Pray tell, what is it's meaning?

Hubris is a particular brand of pride. Specifically, the Pride that one is closer to or equal to the gods compared to others. It is a greek word, and is generally a 'fatal flaw' in their mythology - and there is wisdom in that.

Your feelings here constitute hubris. It is something that happens to, I believe, all magicians at one point or another. I don't mean this as an attack, but i will explain. Hubris is a natural part of human consciousness which magick naturally enhances - it is an obstacle.

Every type of person in society is critically necessary for the evolution of human culture and biology. Human kind is an organic system which needs to strain against itself in order to grow. Everyone's 'soul' is made of the same stuff. Everyone's soul is the same indefinite size, or quantity. Everyone performs the function of their incarnation, whether they know they are doing it or not. Each person embodies a principle which becomes the template for their consciousness. A person can expand that, and grow outside of that mold. Those people have broken or at least interrupted the karmic cycle. Magicians, I believe, feel an innate call, by nature of their 'template', to attempt that process. That does not make them more special, more useful to the world, or any closer to God, or the Source, whatever you term it, than anyone else. You bear an inescapable equanimity to all living beings, or at least all human beings (I've heard convincing arguments to the superiority of 'human' consciousness that are viable, But i personally believe that equanimity is universal among all living things.) You, like everyone else, serve a purpose whether you know it or not.

The struggle to exorcise that element of yourself - which you'll have to if you're to actually gain anything of real value from magickal practice - is part of the dynamic tension that induces growth. It is the pull between the Source and the Void that is present in every human being. If it wasn't for those two forces pulling, we wouldn't expand.

My qualm is not with them, rather it is with those happily marching in step the same souless tune, trying in vain to achieve higher and higher states of social status, caught in an eternal blaze of unyeiding consumption that threatens to destroy everything in sight only to find that the hole in their soul never fills. These people are but lemmings approaching a cliff, and there are times I am tempted to give them a much deserved shove.

If those people didn't march, if they didn't consume, if they didn't vie for fame and wealth, then society would not advance a fraction as fast as it does. You need to understand that in order for human kind to support it's growing technology, in order for us to accumulate knowledge and then pack greater and greater amounts of education into the years that we have (look at the education of the average american teenager compared to a person of the same age in 1900ce), which is what is required for human kind to evolve, there has to be a commercial, consumer based element to society. Those people that devote themselves to it, to social status, those people who vie for wealth and fame, they are necessary elements to maintain a system in which YOU can have the resources to get the education and understanding that you need in order to expand your consciousness to and even higher state than it is - human consciousness has expanded before, it's been expanding since it began. Just because you are reaching a new level of awareness, doesn't make it special. In fifty years, people half your age are going to have twice the education and twice the awareness that you had when you were that age. That's how this system works.

I'm betting you have lots and lots of leisure time. I'm also betting that you read a large chunk of at least the foundation of all the mystical knowledge you have now. You probably got a portion of that from the internet (supported by that system which is so self destructive) maybe some books at libraries? Fortunately you didn't have to walk for five days to get there, or hitch a ride on a covered wagon. Fortunately you have time to study because you don't need to tend a farm and garden all day.

It's not my intention to be condescending. I simply feel that this is a very critical point to take to heart when approaching a mystical life. The ego will get in the way of your magick, and there's nothing you can do about it. The less ego you have, the more powerful your magick is. Ego is seperateness from the Source, which is what you're really throwing energy at when you do magick, bouncing it off the astral light and back into the material world. You can imagine ego to be a litteral shell around you. The thicker it is, the less light you can see, and the weaker your magick is as a result. To truly expand your awareness and your consciousness - not just your thought processes and observation capabilities - you have to allow that shell to thin, and weaken, in order to litterally expand it until it bursts, like a bubble. If it is thick enough to maintain distinctness, but thin enough to be clear, then you attain clarity. But, that's one in a long number of steps towards truly spiritual magickal experiences. It all starts by accepting/admitting that one is ultimately in a state of unequivocal equanimity with every other individual in the world, regardless of habits, preferences, station, intelligence, power, or anything else.

And that's not just good magick, that's being a good human being.

Now, does that imply that there is nothing flawed about society? No, of course not. There's plenty wrong with society and with people. There's plenty wrong with me, and with you. If there wasn't we wouldn't be doing this, we wouldn't be trying to get better. Better than what? If nothing is wrong, what is desirable? The work of transmuting society, human culture as a whole, into something better is the function of a particular templet of person - some are magicians, and some aren't. Those people need to be able to work grow more efficiently as the 'wrong' in human culture becomes increasingly subtle - and the parts that aren't subtle get more efficient as well.

Compassion, compassion. One must have compassion, or magick is pointless.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Aug 10 2006, 10:11 PM

I'm betting you have lots and lots of leisure time. I'm also betting that you read a large chunk of at least the foundation of all the mystical knowledge you have now. You probably got a portion of that from the internet (supported by that system which is so self destructive) maybe some books at libraries? Fortunately you didn't have to walk for five days to get there, or hitch a ride on a covered wagon. Fortunately you have time to study because you don't need to tend a farm and garden all day.

Mistaken on all counts. Not to argue with you, just wanted to point that out. Actually, time for me is fleeting. I work 40 hours at a day job, take 28 credit hours per semester in night school, and coach semi-pro football for 30 hrs a week, still somehow managing to find time to be a good husband and father to my wife and 2 kids. I am not nearly as book learned as many here, but I have been around many, many lifetimes, and in this lifetime have tons of hands on experience with very high magick. What is challenging for me is, I have (at least this life) always had a knack and deep understanding of magick. I picked up and mastered certain skills more quickly than others I have seen. What I lack is a lot of the fundamental concepts that years of book study usually provide. Now I am playing catch up, as it were. And the more I learn, the more I realize that one human lifetime just isn't going to be enough.

Do not mistake me, I do not intend to present myself as one who hates humanity. On the contrary, I have a deep love and facination for mankind and have devoted my life to studying topics such as Anthropology, Psychology, Political Science and Communications. My challenge this life revolves around everything you have said. The acceptance of all things being connected, of seeing the big picture and not holding the actions of a few against the whole. To further go on and show compassion and understanding for that few would be icing on the cake. I am not there yet, but I believe strongly that your words are right on point to where I am heading. I am a warrior and killer by trade. Tyrannical at times in the past. In fact, part of me now wants to argue "why not just enslave the people and treat them as an ant farm for my own amusement?". I have a long way to go...For my spiritual growth, I must learn compassion, that is why I am here. It appears to come more naturally to some than myself, but I believe it to be a goal worthy of effort.

Thank you for this conversation, I have been enlightened.


Makavelli

This post has been edited by Makavelli: Aug 11 2006, 09:16 AM

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In keeping with the thread title, i find that being in contact with spirits that have alot of power is physically draining. One experience in particular was so exhausting that it felt like i had just swam 500 yards at full race pace. The spirit wasn't evil or hostile, quite the opposite actually, but it was very hard to be around. Comparitively this is a bit more of a short-term cost. More recently (read as thursday...) i was experimenting with channeling energy through one's self in order to enhance physical abilities: i think i figured out the price. I am very sore right now. realize i'm no stranger to extreme pain, and pain resulting from exersize strain. this is quite different.

@ makavelli: i'm going to give some advice, and being unsolicited, do with it what you want; be patient. The Unawakened, as you refer to them, may not be Magi in the strictest sense of the word, but it doesn't mean that you are unable to learn something from them. Many magical abilities and spells are firmly rooted in the mundane aspects of everyday life. If you ignore the everyday mundane stuff, you will miss alot of the magical minutia that are occuring around you on a daily basis. Further, everyone, even the Unawakened, have gifts, and they use them reflexively.

anyway, that's all...

More recently (read as thursday...) i was experimenting with channeling energy through one's self in order to enhance physical abilities: i think i figured out the price. I am very sore right now. realize i'm no stranger to extreme pain, and pain resulting from exersize strain. this is quite different.

Much like with exercise, the pain will decrease with repetition. Many martial arts use this, although they may call it by different names. It takes time and discipline to master, but being able to do it at a moments notice can come in handy if you are in danger.

The problem with magick is how little we actually know about it. Consider your day to day life and how many benigne and uneventful things you routinely do. How does each of the these affect others around you? Probably very little. There are some things you choose to do because you can grasp the impact on yourself and others around you. You can figure out if what you choose to do will affect you or others adversly. Then there are somethings we choose to do because we believe it is in our best interests to do so but can not quite consider out these actions will affect others.

The same is true for magick. Weather you use it for good or bad on yourself or others its always like throwing a stone in a lake. You'll generate ripples that will affect others. IN magickal terms this is kinda scary because your actions can create unintended consequences. Of course, the greatest cost to any magick, is in the responsibility to know when it is acceptable to use and heart to take responsibility for you own actions, magickal or not.

May I ask for your judgement in my actions ?

For a while now , I have wished for wealth.(Almost 2 months).I also wish to move to England to fulfill my dreams of becoming a musician so wealth isn't my only goal.

I think I already paid a price by focusing all my hopes , all my power in such dreams , and as for a sacrafice , I did pay I guess.All through scholl and high-school i was pushed around , but , i never retaliated.Maybe knowing that i would achieve great power later i had to pay then ? Maybe ?!?!

So far I have seen signs : -every time I turn on the TV will randomely chosing channels I see some reference to England
-when I watch a movie I see a falg or something
-when I surf the web randomly I find another refference

I'm not sure if I have to pay any more ?
What do you think ?

May I ask for your judgement in my actions ?

For a while now , I have wished for wealth.(Almost 2 months).I also wish to move to England to fulfill my dreams of becoming a musician so wealth isn't my only goal.

I think I already paid a price by focusing all my hopes , all my power in such dreams , and as for a sacrafice , I did pay I guess.All through scholl and high-school i was pushed around , but , i never retaliated.Maybe knowing that i would achieve great power later i had to pay then ? Maybe ?!?!

So far I have seen signs : -every time I turn on the TV will randomely chosing channels I see some reference to England
-when I watch a movie I see a falg or something
-when I surf the web randomly I find another refference

I'm not sure if I have to pay any more ?
What do you think ?

Other may have something to say here, but this is a really touchy subject, because everyone has a different idea about how magick manifests and the ethics involved in it, and because there is a responsible hesitancy to dictate your actions to you based on personal beliefs.

So, take this with a grain of salt, but just roll it over in your head. The same with any other response.

In my experience, and it may be totally individual, I always get a little results first, and if I handle the costs positively, the results become multiplied. usually, the cost is directly associated with the nature of the gain. For instance, drawing a connection between being bullied in school and attaining wealth power doesn't ring very solid to me. Now, maybe it is specifically tailored to your situation; I would suggest seeking out answers about what being bullied meant to you, how it changed, you, and whether or not you were supposed to 'just take it'. Maybe, you were supposed to be learning to stand up for yourself, and conserve your own energy, because both of these skills are necessary to live on your own, and especially to command wealth and power.

I must pose a question, though... what will wealth and power get for you? What can you learn in england, that you cannot learn here? Magick in line with our intention for life, that which defines who we are and what we are here to learn, is more powerful and immediate than any other magick. By asking questions, discovering your divine will, your intention in life, and then doing magick that helps you achieve that, you will attain all the things that will help you accomplish that intention. Follow the coincidences, trust your instincts, and always be prepared to recognize and meet a challenge head on, and with creativity. Real magick is about learning to negotiate life with a higher purpose and understanding and what is happening around you and within you. The material gains will fade, you will lose them, and they will amount to little in the end, unless you have a clear understanding about the realtion of those gains to your purpose in life. responsibilites which are outside what we are created to deal with, feel heavy and unmanagable. I've had this sensation several times in the past, and always it was the same. Material goods are worthless in the long run, and in my opinion, we should not do magick for money, but rather, for the creativity and inspiration to know how we can best apply our talents and skills towards making a living. In this way, we don't just make and all call for material gain, we direct how we get that gain, and accept the responsibility to getting it at the same time. All costs are covered, and we can be sure that what we achieve is clean.

These are my ethical and moral opinions, nothing more. I was in a similar place to you, it sounds like, at your age. Focus on the living force, the here and now, and pay attention to life. You may find there are things far more valuable than wealth and power, and that you already have a means to achieve them.

As a side note, we all need confirmation sometime, but you must become comfortable with your own judgement. In fact, you should ignore the judgement of anyone but yourself, and you should desire to become wise enough to judge yourself correctly. You're all you need, every thing else is just guidance and signs.

peace

Well the issue was that wealth can spare me a lot of problems , not necesarrily as an objective in life but as a barrier from the pointless worries of money.If i was wealthy then I could focus on more important things in life , lack of money can destroy you.I remember some neighbours of mine both of them had a kid before they got married and then they fought about who's kid ate most.
I don't belive we were born to suffer , I don't think I have to be poor and live in a stick hut to achieve spirituality.
I don't think any of us are meant to suffer.There is some default pain , for example when you learn to play guitar you get bruised fingertips.

Why do I want to go to England ? Hmmm ... well maybe because I live in Romania , a third world country filled with lies , corruption and violence . It's no plave for spiritual peace , and the people here are mostly very conservative , so it's hard to mention magic without being regarded a demon worshiper or something.In villages they still burn the hearts of those recently dead , believd to be vampires.And then they drink it with water.

Why did I choose England , because it's a step forward from many points of view.

But let's get back to the costs of magic.Why do I feel proud for not retaliating when I got bullied , because I was smart enough to turn the other cheek. If I'm not mistaken a lot of holy books mention that form the Bible to the budhist writings.In my opinion if you had a though childhood you get a better adult life , you "pay" then.

Take for example Oprah , she lived in a very very poor ghetto area , and now she's a billionare.It's very impressive and I think it's just an example.We all pay somehow.
Take any proffesional in any sport , they are very fit but that lives little time for knowledge , so they lack it , but contrary to what people think they are not stupid , they just know other things.

You can see this as a game RPG , if you played one.You have experiance and you can only learn 10 things out of 100 per character , the same is true with life.Time is the most valued resource , if you waste it on making money you have none to invest in bettering yourself spiritually.

Well the issue was that wealth can spare me a lot of problems , not necesarrily as an objective in life but as a barrier from the pointless worries of money.If i was wealthy then I could focus on more important things in life , lack of money can destroy you.I remember some neighbours of mine both of them had a kid before they got married and then they fought about who's kid ate most.
I don't belive we were born to suffer , I don't think I have to be poor and live in a stick hut to achieve spirituality.
I don't think any of us are meant to suffer.There is some default pain , for example when you learn to play guitar you get bruised fingertips.

It's true, we are not meant to suffer, but we are meant to struggle. Of course you don't have to be pious and pietous to be spiritual, you're right. However, placing our intention and will towards something external of ourselves in order to attain something, will gain you something that is seperate from yourself, and can therefore be lost or taken. By seeking to do magick which changes Us, and by making 'tactical' changes to our psyche, transforming who we are, our magick achieves us something that can never be taken or lost, and will always thereafter be a part of our arsenal. Who is better off, a man with the creativity to create abundance in his life forever, or a man who won a million dollars at the lottery? Of course you also want to be a musician. But, if you are splitting your magickal will between attaining wealth and becoming a musician, then you are only pursuing either at 'half power', and one of them is an empty endeavor.

Why do I want to go to England ? Hmmm ... well maybe because I live in Romania , a third world country filled with lies , corruption and violence . It's no plave for spiritual peace , and the people here are mostly very conservative , so it's hard to mention magic without being regarded a demon worshiper or something.In villages they still burn the hearts of those recently dead , believd to be vampires.And then they drink it with water.

Alright, I'm an american, so I'll admit that I don't know what it's like to live and grow in a situation exactly like that. However, for one thing, it is never necessary for you to mention to anyone that you practice magick or even think about it, unless your seeking guidance from someone you already trust, or providing guidance to someone else. Appreciate that you were born into a world with the internet. While I haven't lived in a third world country, I have been homeless, I have gone weeks eating nothing but beans, and i've been in parts of my country where people are also violently conservative. Poverty and backwards people may be concentrated in some areas, but it does exist everywhere, in the cracks of society between the parts with power. Every place is a place for spiritual peace. The value of observing the inherent beauty of the human system, both its good parts and the bad, and finding the silver lining in our own personal situation in life, is greatly underestimated by today's magicians. Positive feelings with labels as specific as love, compassion, appreciation, and faith, are sidestepped, i think because much of today's occult youth feel that such words are too soft and not cool enough. However, it is only when you embrace these ideals, when you can observe the beauty of your own situation - not as a social class, not as part of a situation beyond your own perspective - that you can connect to the underlying current that has put you into existence, into motion, in that situation so that you will have all of the resources, information, and opportunity, that you will need to survive and evolve, and impact the world in a positive way. This is the system of existence, and it is designed to progress forward, so there is always a way to progress forward in life, and in society, for all of mankind. It is our folly to ignore that connection, and to try and do it on our own, not admitting that we need help. Magick is about engaging that current, and to do that, you have to connect.
Your situation sucks, I know that I personally would hate to be where you are, no one likes to take on more struggle. But, none the less, love the world around you, see it's beauty, consciously, and everything that you want in life will be provided to you, if you will open your heart, follow your instincts, and watch the world around you for the signs.

But let's get back to the costs of magic.Why do I feel proud for not retaliating when I got bullied , because I was smart enough to turn the other cheek. If I'm not mistaken a lot of holy books mention that form the Bible to the budhist writings.In my opinion if you had a though childhood you get a better adult life , you "pay" then.

Take for example Oprah , she lived in a very very poor ghetto area , and now she's a billionare.It's very impressive and I think it's just an example.We all pay somehow.
Take any proffesional in any sport , they are very fit but that lives little time for knowledge , so they lack it , but contrary to what people think they are not stupid , they just know other things.

You can see this as a game RPG , if you played one.You have experiance and you can only learn 10 things out of 100 per character , the same is true with life.Time is the most valued resource , if you waste it on making money you have none to invest in bettering yourself spiritually.

I didn't ask why you felt proud. I asked what it was that made you associate that experience with the cost of the magick you are doing now. And it's true, we pay for our progress with pain. But that doesn't mean that if you have a hard childhood you'll be rich. It means that if you have a hard youth, then you have a lot of oppurtunity to learn and grow, and master your self and your abilities, as they will be constantly challenged with adversity. Because we endure - if we endure, and keep our purpose firmly in mind while we negotiate a difficult world - we are 'rewarded' by the causal current with wisdom, knowledge, and power. But, this is inner power, the ability to manifest the life that we want by keeping our intentions firmly in mind, and having the energy to pay attention to the current in the world around us to recognize the oppurtunities that will be presented to us in order to fullfill our intentions. The intention is the navigation, the 'spell' we cast - our actions are the engine of that magick. As we become wise, we understsand the signs more readily, as we attain knowledge, we are able to effect more efficient change, and as we master this wisdom and knowledge, we gain the power wielded by a true adept.
If you use this strategy for attaining money in life, then you are learning the same things that you would be learning otherwise - the ability to observe the Causal Current, the Subtle universe, recognize what it is telling you, and acting on it impeccably. Think creatively, expand your opinions. Change your mind about things every couple of weeks. Get as much perspective as you can, and do not waste any time. If you are serious about changing your life, then you can do it at any time you want to if you are willing to apply yourself 100% of the time and take advantage of every oppurtunity. It is taxing, and tiring, and you will see why they say it requires so much energy to exist in this state of engagement all of the time.

Its an equation. Magick is perfectly geometric and exact, like math. Like math, if we leave unknown variables unknown and expect the equation to just balance out on it's own, then the answer will be unclear. Do magick for self transformation, it's just my opinion, but you don't have time to waste using magick to attain anything outside of yourself.

All that aside, you did request someone's judgement. Ultimately, it's your life, your magick, your purpose. You can't help but follow the current, but you can choose to use it's momentum to your advantage, or just wash down the river hoping to bump into something good. All the decisions have to be yours, all this is just my take.

peace

Look I'm not looking for a handout , I'm just willing to use whatever power I might have in my subconcious/myself to obtain my goal.
I will take your advice on looking for oportunities and I am sorry for your situation back then.
You see I want to use magic not only for knowledge and power but to help myself and those around me-a sort of blessing you see.
I do think magic is a vay of life however I don't think it should be used for evil or such.
Don't take me as the fool who wants the world without paying somehow , but not all work is physical , our thoughts and sould could be very well paying the price.Maybe it's better to put it this way : I want to open more doors in my life using magic.I don't take it as a game or a joke , it does have prices and I've heard about the dangers of black magic-if you don't release a curse it turns against you triple the damage.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_bookread.gif)

[quote name='alin' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:20 AM' post='18867']
Look I'm not looking for a handout , I'm just willing to use whatever power I might have in my subconcious/myself to obtain my goal.
I will take your advice on looking for oportunities and I am sorry for your situation back then.
[/quote]

Psh, you're probably worse off than I was. In any case, there's nothing inherently wrong with using your intention and will to get things in life. You wanted an outside perspective, I gave you one. Do whatever you want with it, I just happened to have something to say when I read the post.

[quote]
You see I want to use magic not only for knowledge and power but to help myself and those around me-a sort of blessing you see.
I do think magic is a vay of life however I don't think it should be used for evil or such.
[/quote]

that's a good mindset to have, except the part about magick not being a way of life. Again, just my take, but living a magickal life requires that magick be your way of life. It doesn't matter what religion you practice, because magick isn't about gods and goddesses and rituals. That's just how most people approach it because they don't know any better. Neither did I when I first started, and I didn't wake up to the fact until a couple of years ago. Everything in my life has changd drastically since that realization, all for the better. Just give it some thought.

[quote]
Don't take me as the fool who wants the world without paying somehow , but not all work is physical , our thoughts and sould could be very well paying the price.Maybe it's better to put it this way : I want to open more doors in my life using magic.I don't take it as a game or a joke , it does have prices and I've heard about the dangers of black magic-if you don't release a curse it turns against you triple the damage.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_bookread.gif)
[/quote]

Very good, very good.

The last thing I feel should be said here (not that I won't read your response if there is one,) is that living a magickal lifestyle requires just one thing - everything else happens on it's own after that, all you have to do is pay attention and act.

That one requirement, is living in a state of love. It sounds hokey, but love is litterally connection. We just call it Love because that's what we do - label things to understand them, and limit what it means to make it more 'compact' and easy to grasp. Loving the universe, all of creation, including the bad situation you're in, allows you to be connected to the current underneath it.

Good luck, brother.

peace

[quote name='alin' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:20 AM' post='18867']
Look I'm not looking for a handout , I'm just willing to use whatever power I might have in my subconcious/myself to obtain my goal.
I will take your advice on looking for oportunities and I am sorry for your situation back then.
[/quote]

Psh, you're probably worse off than I was. In any case, there's nothing inherently wrong with using your intention and will to get things in life. You wanted an outside perspective, I gave you one. Do whatever you want with it, I just happened to have something to say when I read the post.

[quote]
You see I want to use magic not only for knowledge and power but to help myself and those around me-a sort of blessing you see.
I do think magic is a vay of life however I don't think it should be used for evil or such.
[quote]

that's a good mindset to have, except the part about magick not being a way of life. Again, just my take, but living a magickal life requires that magick be your way of life. It doesn't matter what religion you practice, because magick isn't about gods and goddesses and rituals. That's just how most people approach it because they don't know any better. Neither did I when I first started, and I didn't wake up to the fact until a couple of years ago. Everything in my life has changd drastically since that realization, all for the better. Just give it some thought.

[quote]
Don't take me as the fool who wants the world without paying somehow , but not all work is physical , our thoughts and sould could be very well paying the price.Maybe it's better to put it this way : I want to open more doors in my life using magic.I don't take it as a game or a joke , it does have prices and I've heard about the dangers of black magic-if you don't release a curse it turns against you triple the damage.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_bookread.gif)
[/quote]

Very good, very good.

The last thing I feel should be said here (not that I won't read your response if there is one,) is that living a magickal lifestyle requires just one thing - everything else happens on it's own after that, all you have to do is pay attention and act.

That one requirement, is living in a state of love. It sounds hokey, but love is litterally connection. We just call it Love because that's what we do - label things to understand them, and limit what it means to make it more 'compact' and easy to grasp. Loving the universe, all of creation, including the bad situation you're in, allows you to be connected to the current underneath it.

Good luck, brother.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Sep 15 2006, 01:16 PM

Well thank you.I'm looking forward to practicing magic for a positive purpose . I think the costs however limit themselves to your own faith , time and ingridients(the ones you used-candels and so on).
The only magic I think may take a large cost is black magic , because you invoke the very force of death , I'm not sure , but that's my opinion.

May magic change our lives for the bettter !