Stealing Souls, Satan can do it..can we? Options

I appose christianity also but not god and not the bible. It is a guide beyond any i can imagine. In fact there are more sorcerers and mystics in the bilbe than any myth or sci fi book ive ever read. The entire post about Jesus was in answer to Vagrants post just prior to mine.
As far as haveing no belief in god or likeing the post about Jesus i could care less. To each his own. Open your eyes Man there is a god. How the heck do you think your here? Where do you think true High magic comes from? If you would stop being like the Christians you despise so much you would realize Jesus was a sorcerer.

Enochian becareful you don't come off as overly dogmatic. You're perfectly welcome to share your beliefs but do not try to impose them on others. I will say however,

Jesus died for us, a bunch of murderers and betrayers that mostly hated him. So no the ends dont justify the means. No one can take a soul anyways so it matters very little.

I am not a murderer or a betrayer.

BloodArchon I understand you don't like Christianity but people are allowed to share their beliefs - just not impose them.

Now the topic has nothing to do with Jesus or the existance of God or the orgins of high magick. We're discussing the how's and why's somebody would steal souls.

So here is my take:

In order to come to a complete answer we should consider what a soul really is - currently members have shared the ideas that the soul is a part of greater deity, Enochian believes this is God. Some believe that souls are collections of energy that grant life to living creatures. And others believe that a soul is a product of consciousness, perhaps a collection of energy, and equates to being one's awareness will power and personal control. If any of you have other ideas on what the soul is it'd be good share.

Another thing to consider is that in order to *steal* something it must first belong to them. Thus if a soul is a part of a greater whole then one does not steal souls from those who bare them, but from the greater whole. This does, in my opinion, seem to indicate that taking a soul would be either very difficult or impossible because if we all have souls that belong to the same greater force or deity, however you want to call it, then we'd essentially be acting like God taking from God. It doesn't make any sense. In order to steal or even barrow a soul, because hey maybe you're just lonely or want a drinking buddy, it would have to be something that is owned by, or at least autonomously controled by, an individual person. Again if any members have ideas to share that would help enrich this topic.

So then that brings us to why somebody would want to steal a soul. Well what does it do? If the soul is merely a collection of energy with memories imprinted on it then about the only thing one could get from it is more energy for themselves or possibly extract the memories it contains. If the soul is a part of a greater whole, some deity or supreme lifeforce like Gaia, and it were at all possible to steal a soul then the reason why would likely be either to prevent another from exploiting its power or harnessing it for themself. Sounds somewhat similar. If the soul is owned/controled by an individual then the purpose of taking it would alse be to prevent another from exploiting their own will power. It sounds to me that control is the repeating factor here. Therefore I think its safe to say that regardless of what one thinks a soul is the purpose of stealing one from another person is to either take control of them or deny them self control. Are "bad" reasons to take souls? Sure but I think that depends on the circumstances of the situation. Are there good reasons to steal souls? Possibly but I don't personally think so.

Now what are some theories on how somebody would take souls? If souls are indeed a part of some supreme force we could not take souls like one could take cookies from a jar but it might be possible to usurp one's control over theirs. In Voodoo priests can make "zombies" out of people. Perhpas what they do is not actually remove one's soul but rather take control of it through drug induces psychological trauma. If the soul is energy, say like prana, then one would not really view souls as personal property like a tv but rather more like a swimming pool or pond in a nieghbor's back yard. Thus the thief, say a prana vampire, would steal souls in a fashion similar to somehow syphoning water out of a swimming pool and dumping it into there own. Or maybe stealing gas by syphoning it out of other's cars would be a better analogy. If the soul was more like one's will power and ability to control their own destiny, regardless if was a collection of energy or not then one could hypnotize or manipulate people into giving up control over their soul. People who follow, or give allegiance to another person for any reason be they a rock star or the alledged son of God, are for all intensive purposes, giving up their souls. I suppose its possible to steal souls through ritual magick. Voodoo priests at least appear to be successful at it. But I think it would be difficult through say spell craft. Something else to consider is that if the soul is not attached to a body anymore it makes it much easier to take. So perhaps the trick is killing a person or taking souls from dead people.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Feb 2 2007, 07:16 PM

I believe the soul can be "infiltrated" by angelic or demonic presences. How? well when you succumb to the power of a certain demon than you leave yourself open. For instance if you have sexual issues your energy may attract the presence of say an incubi or incubus, And than as you further degrade yourself this leaves room for the presence to become stronger and eventually it becomes intertwined so much with your energy/soul that it "possessed" you. But to take a soul away i believe as acid indicated makes no sense. Soul is all of us intertwined. Thats what allows for psychic communication and other things. So essentially you would be stealing a part of a whole that you yourself belong to.
God the seed of our soul and the soul is part of all energy and frequency. The mustard seed that resides in you is the seed of godlyhood. You can strive to become god like but in doing so your trying to usurp the one god. and he has warned against that. Now trying to become very powerful and to be angelic or demonic in nature is not trying to dethrone the one and as such will allow you to yield much power. Power enough to infiltrate a soul.
The Gnostics true goal in life is to be angelic before they die. To limit and finally eliminate the "earthly" or ego nature of themself. And thus eliminating ways to be "infiltrated".

I believe that this is how the "devil" believes he will win. To take enough souls for himslef into his realm as to be more than god. Pease dont take devil literally its mearly a word to explain the most fallen or the darkest being.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Feb 2 2007, 07:42 PM

Greetings everyone,

As I stated back in post 43 of this thread anyone who reads this I have officially stolen your soul. Thank you for participating in my soul gathering project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The term 'selling your soul' is an invention of the literary mindset. Outside of Urban Grandier's alleged pact to sell his soul, there's little evidence that anyone in actual Occult history summoned the Devil and sold their soul. Faustus aside - which is a literary story - we have only the tall tales of the lone guitar player sittin' at the crossroads wanting to make a deal with the devil. Again, nothing substantiated, just a legend.

However, there's no reason why one cannot make a pact, a.k.a. business contract for services rendered, for any Spirit. Pact does not imply giving over your soul. Again that is literary fantasy and media nonsense. If you follow the Judeo-Xian logic, we're all damned anyway so the big bad evil ones don't need to pay us squat.

I usually tell folks I tried to sell my soul to the Devil but he couldn't offer me much since he lost his fortune in the last stock market crash.

Now I have several contracts with different Spirits. I have one with Lucifuge Rofocale and it doesn't involve selling my soul - regardless of what it says in Le Dragon Rouge. Plus I have one with Seer, the 70th Spirit of the book of Goetia and I have several with different Spirits from other places.

A former colleague of mine did say he has a pact with Djab the Vodu version of the Devil and his is working out just fine too. Plus he has a pact with San Simon and a couple of other feisty Spirits.

My advice is the path of Sorcery is not for the timid. If you are afraid of losing your eternal soul or bothered by eternal damnation, then perhaps you should leave the real Occult alone and go back to kissing Jesus' feet. It's all up to you in the long run obviously but you need to remember that this is the path of the Occult, or that which is hidden, and it's usually hidden for a good reason. Don't open Pandora's Box if you're not ready and able to do so.

All the Best,

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Im happy I made you smile...well since I started this Ive moved on to other projects, I haven't been posting because Im close to graduation and I have a whole lot of school work to do...you know what they say business before pleasure! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wandwizard.gif)