Possible Time Travel? Options

I was browsing wikipedia.com reading about the history of earth, ancient civilizations, artifacts, scientific theories of the universe and somehow it led me to time travel theories and how it cannot be done with our current scientific findings - even if it is theoritically possible. However, I followed a link to a page called The ATS John Titor Project/Archiving the history of comments and statements made by "time traveler", John Titor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor

The SkepticOverlord's Introduction:

At some time in early November of 2000, someone showed up in a few Internet discussion boards calling themselves Timetravel_0. Over time, they then laid claim to the real name, John Titor, a time traveler from the year 2036. From there, the name John Titor will forever be embedded in the folklore of both alternative-topic boards like ATS, and the Internet as a whole.

As many will recall, one of the first things Titor did was post pictures of his time machine and his operations manual. As the days, weeks, and months went by, people began questioning Titor about his presence "in our timeline", the seeming impossibility of the physics of time travel and his thoughts about the issues of our time. He also posted on other Internet discussion boards including the old Art Bell site. In his posts John Titor often entertained, enraged, frightened and belittled those who engaged him in mostly one-sided conversation.

On March 24, 2001, John Titor announced he would be leaving our time and returning to 2036. After that, he was never heard from again. Speculation and investigation about who John Titor was and why he was online (curiously focusing his efforts on conspiracy community discussion boards) continues to this day.

Although many find it easy to dismiss all this as either science fiction or an elaborate extended hoax, there are those who still read his information and agree that there is something very troubling about John Titor and what he had to say. I was present during many of his postings and at the time, didn't pay much attention, immediately dismissing it as just another Internet hoax. However, as time goes by, many point to current-day details that seem to corroborate Titor's stories, and even others feel his exact predictions have come to pass. Others have even compiled his contributions into the book, John Titor A Time Traveler's Tale.

AboveTopSecret.com is presenting the contributions and posting of John Titor as a result of the hard work of several members who participated in our research project focused on gathering all the data before it was lost from free online access. We believe this is the most complete and accurate archive of John Titor information available for free. The information is provided without official commentary of any type. Review the information, discuss, debate, and draw your own conclusions.

-SkepticOverlord.

30 December 2000 11:47 (about time travel) 169
(If parallel universes do exist, did they all start simultaneously? I mean, let's assume that the universe originated from a singularity. Were there any parallel universes at that point? That would not be very logical and it would also imply that there is a parallel universe in which our universe never existed.)

30 December 2000 11:47 (about time travel) 170
It is thought that the event called the �Big Bang� was the start of not only this worldline or universe but all worldlines and all universes that make up the superuniverse. It is also thought that the superuniverse can be imagined as an expanding sphere with the big bang in the center. Individual worldliness (or timelines as you call them) can be imagined as lines originating at the center and �trending� toward spiraling around the sphere until they reach the edge. The individual worldlines expand in length and widen as you follow them from the center. Each individual �moment� or �event� on a world line has infinite possibilities or outcomes. Imagine this as a single point with infinite lines shooting away from it, which in turn are made up of points with their own possibilities and outcomes. Now, remember, these individual worldliness with all these points and possibilities are defined by their ability to hold there inhabitants to timelike trips only (no faster than light travel).

30 December 2000 11:47 (about time travel) 171
Now consider the reality of a spinning or electrified black hole (Kerr). Penrose diagrams of these oddities show mathematically that you can make simulated spacelike trips (faster than light) through the singularity without being destroyed. In order to do this without wiping out most modern physical laws, you must travel to an alternate worldline or universe. Therefore, if multiple worldlines exist, infinite worldlines exist.

30 December 2000 11:47 (about time travel) 172
(�If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.") A few people have asked me about this statement so I will try to clarify it. On my worldline (A) in 2036, I was given a mission in 1975. I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with about a 2% divergence from (A). From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create a new worldline just because I�m there. This line can be described as © and started when I got to (B). I am now doing my mission on line © in 1975 when I discover a very a good reason to go forward on © and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on © to the year 2000. When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach © which in turn would take me back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).

30 December 2000 11:47 (about time travel) 173 v If all this isn�t enough to get your head spinning�here are some issues we�re dealing with in 2036.

1. Did your worldline (D) exist at all before I got here from ©? (personally I don�t see how it couldn�t)
2. What happens at the end of a worldine at the edge of the superuniverse?
3. If there are infinite worldlines and infinite possibilities and an edge to the superuniverse, doesn�t that mean occurring events on worldliness are staggered as they reach the edge? (time could end at any moment without warning).

30 December 2000 11:47 (about time travel) 174
In trying to imagine a superuniverse with infinite possibilities and worldlines, I think of a room with mirrors on all the walls. You are aware of your captivity but as you look in the distance, you see an infinite number of �yours� in an infinite number of mirrored rooms. The gravity distortion machine allows you to �step� out of your room and into another next to you. The closer you are to your original room, the closer it looks like yours, the farther away, the stranger it looks to you.

A very interesting and at least entertaining read (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I spent some hours reading through the pages and throughly entertained and half convinced. He throws a lot of interesting and thought provoking ideas and questions.
The ATS John Titor Project/Archiving the history of comments and statements made by "time traveler", John Titor.

I suppose we'll find out if we achieve time travel by 2036 or so.

However, I have to say that what he says about alternate universes, worldlines, etc... matches what i've observed.

One might assume that if humanity -ever- manages time travel, then there must be some sort of effect currently on our timeline from the future. But, going into the past would only serve to illuminate an alternate timeline, not actually affect the future itself as one knows it. It might be viable for exploring or researching history in a way that we might learn more about how our decisions can affect the events in our world. If we can learn from consequences of just one decision in the past, what might we learn if we were able to study multiple decisions and their outcomes from the same temporal locale?

Fun fun!

peace

I suppose we'll find out if we achieve time travel by 2036 or so.
peace

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

And I suppose it could be said that time travel is achieved already.

I did it today. I got up this morning ... travelled through time ... here I am now about to go to bed again, but nothing is the same as it was 17 hours ago. It has all changed but I am now in the future, because the past is just that - past.

The present has now become the past in a split second and the future will always there especially for the dreamers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/starspin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

I suppose we'll find out if we achieve time travel by 2036 or so.
peace

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

And I suppose it could be said that time travel is achieved already.

I did it today. I got up this morning ... travelled through time ... here I am now about to go to bed again, but nothing is the same as it was 17 hours ago. It has all changed but I am now in the future, because the past is just that - past.

The present has now become the past in a split second and the future will always there especially for the dreamers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/starspin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

What you're experiencing is linear time.

'time travel' would function upon a different frame of time, non-linear time, or at least multi-vector time.

In any case, this guy, John Titor, claims in one of his various responses that civil war begins in the US around 2004 with a series of "Waco" type events which steadily get worse every month or so. Here we are 2006, no civil war. Given that this person himself claimed not to have said/caused/inpinged up our 'worldline' enough for it to diverger significantly form his own worldline, I would say that's the proof right there that he was not in fact from the future.

A lot of what he says in these messages is concurrent with events that are basically inevitable. My guess is that this guy, for whatever reason - either he is delusional, in his own world, or he's just out to f*ck with people - decided to play this part, and basically told people about a set of events in the future which everyone can look at and say, "yeah, I could see that happening."

Now, a lot of stuff he was talking about is starting to come to pass - if you take his vague generalizations and hints, and apply them to situations currently going on - but again, they are events which are simply political/social inevitabilities.

This is going to be a world war three. THere will probably be a civil war. There's going to be a massive loss of human life. Two steps forward, one step back just like it's been since, oh, the beginning of time.

I wouldn't give the guy too much credit, but it's certainly an entertaining read. You can find his collected words here: http://www.johntitor.com

peace

That said, I for one do intend to be living somewhere remote by 2010 - but not because of John Titor's stuff, just because big cities are the first to go.

peace, and good luck!

That said, I for one do intend to be living somewhere remote by 2010 - but not because of John Titor's stuff, just because big cities are the first to go.

peace, and good luck!

Also, the video of his jump back is totally fake. He claims at one point that the device he uses weighs about 500 lbs. Yet, he seemed to have little trouble carrying it as he waved around a laser pointer which then opened up a patch of blue light, which he walked into - all of which was digitally faked - badly.

peace

Has anyone consider time traveling through the use of magick? I read an article about this on another site... I'll see if I can find it for you guys!

Has anyone consider time traveling through the use of magick? I read an article about this on another site... I'll see if I can find it for you guys!

Actually, I only recently began seriously attempting just that.

This is the reason that I was originally actually pretty sold on John Titor, until I really read what he had to say. His theory of the structure of time matches my experiences so far, at least as far as the observation of the dimension of time is concerned.

So far I find it harder to fully inhabit another timeline than to inhabit dimensions outside of time. I have heard of people astral projecting backwards in time - but having no real research of my own into the matter, I don't really know what kinds of experiences those people had. Or if anyone has astral projected to the future. Projecting into the past may be a matter of traveling through your own relatively 'low' level on the astral plane where collective experience is stored, and I can see that this would easily be mistaken as time travelling - although I do think that accessing that plane of the astral is the key to time travel. For me the difficulty so far is in going back through that collective experience - this worldline, basically - and then jumping track to an alternate worldline. For some reason the shift just won't happen - I urge the experience, but once I let go to move into it, it just vanishes, or on a good try I just slip back into the worldline that I was already in.

I have had some experience with astral tension in the past, and that is what this is, but what I have yet to elucidate is what causes it and how to overcome it. I have tried projecting forward, but so far my experiences are always extremely fragmented. I have, however, had interesting experiences by posing any sort of 'what if' situation. The shape of the dimension of time, and it's relationship to the 'moment' of the vehicle travling through that dimension if you will, seems to constantly jump from one 'track' to the next. I do not percieve multiple 'moments' moving, so I think that i'm percieving maybe just my own experiential anchor, so to speak, the timeframe that my physical being is in. So, I think that when projecting forward it may be necessary to navigate possibilities more consciously - going backwards you have a trail, going forward you have forks and crossroads, etc.

Any other thoughts, experiences on the matter would be splendid.

peace

In any case, this guy, John Titor, claims in one of his various responses that civil war begins in the US around 2004 with a series of "Waco" type events which steadily get worse every month or so. Here we are 2006, no civil war. Given that this person himself claimed not to have said/caused/inpinged up our 'worldline' enough for it to diverger significantly form his own worldline, I would say that's the proof right there that he was not in fact from the future.

I think multi-vectoral time travel is only physically possible through temporal phase shifts (converting our physical matter as it exists in our time into the matter existing on another time line, which would enable one to percieve another Earth and be subject to its physical laws) Another option would be to create an energy field that shifts into an alternate time line but surrounds a body from this time. If space is limmitless then so is time which could indicate if there are alternate dimentions with their own realities than there could be limmitless Earths with their own linear time lines. So what this guy could have experienced is true, just from another time line.

I think time travel is possible, physically and mentally. The universe is created through encoded information. Each making another facet to an incomprehensible universe relative to a space/time and time/space continuum. If physical time travel is possible I think it would be impossible to physically travel back in time and alter the course of history in this dimention. We could only backwards in time to review information and only forward to explore *possible* paths. Weather one goes forward or backward in our time line they could only observe it. But if we say existance is composed of many, if not limmitless, dimentions and physical time travel is possible then it would also be possible to alter the course of alternate realities.

I speculate that there are a nearly limmitless number of alternate reallities and it is possible to travel these planes. In fact I think we're more likely to explore alternate reallities before distant stars (200 lights and beyond) within the next few centuries (if we make it that long). The kicker to "mutliversal traveling" is that each universe is relative to realities "near" it. Say we could plot universes on a 3d graph. If we travel to the next reallity closest to ours we'd see a reality that is nearly the same. But the further we travel from our own reallity the more distorted it becomes. I speculate this because if time travel is at all possible, especially seeing/experiencing the future, what we'd experince at the molecular level is relative to our the molecular structure of our current time line. The molecules of our reallity, as they are currently structured, won't be very different tommarow or, relatively speaking, ten years from now. However travel in any direction in time the further you go from the starting point the greater the amount of change is experinced. So even minor shifts can lead to various events. But the dinosours arn't just going to spontaneously be revived. So to travel alternate realties produces similar realities relative to their location on a 3d map.

Again this could suggest that if this guy actually did see the future he saw one relative to the presant, but not set in stone. The universe is made up of predictable chaos. We can tell what did happen and can see what might happen (hell consider what you will be doing tomarrow and you're projecting into the future) but because of the chaos constant the universe is truely random. Time travel begins with probability mechanics then advances to sciences that produce machines capable of projecting through time in any direction, forward or backward or side to side, as though on a 3d map. The big catch is that any matter that moves from this reality has to match that of anothers (no two elements can occupy the same space, and most likely, time as well). THis phase shift of matter is what I think will take the longest to develope.

What you're experiencing is linear time.

'time travel' would function upon a different frame of time, non-linear time, or at least multi-vector time.
peace

I do not altogether agree. Time is dependant on your cognisance and dependent on the human need to measure everything.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I'd just like to pipe up here.

I have a friend who works for CERN, does a whole lot of interesting stuff. I think it was last year or the year before, he got a series of emails from a John Titor (not necessarily the same one, but who knows?), with a bunch of equations and designs. Since I knew about John Titor then, I gave him a couple of links, and he went over the schematics of the time machine (which are available if you look around), as well as a few of the photos he posted, and I was very surprised to find out that it's not an impossible suggestion.

A few things worth noting (this is from memory), is that he pre-empted CERN's ability to create virtual black holes (which they've stated they're now capable of achieving) and that he pre-empted America invading Iraq, among a few other things.

Here's the pics and scans John Titor posted: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/john_t...age_images.html

I don't like to use the term impossible, but reversed time travel is unlikely.

Theoretically CERN could produce a black hole, but in doing do they would be unable to tell anyone about it as the gravity of the hole would probably have a far greater and inexorable attraction than that of publishing papers and press releases.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)


Edit: This shows why black holes cannot be made in laboratories (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

This post has been edited by Alafair: Jul 16 2006, 09:46 AM

If one were to try to time travel I think the goal would be to produce a wormhole, not a black hole.

wormholes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

I think Einstein described the connection of a black hole and white hole as the solution using his field equations. If 2 black holes were managed to connect like that one diagram, stuff would get stuck in the middle. I also recently read an article saying that the speed of light is just a mathematical limit and may not apply when approaching the speed.

This post has been edited by plainsight: Jul 20 2006, 12:38 AM

You may be quite right, but until is is proven that the speed of life is not absolute, then the yin/yang theorum of the black/white and worm holes has to be accepted as being absolute. However, there is something rather seductively attractive in the concept of the probability of being juggled about in a wormhole. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)

Maybe that is what the period of "between lives" is -- the black hole being death, the wormhole, après death, and a white hole the emergence into a new existence.

Just a passing thought.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

Theoretically CERN could produce a black hole, but in doing do they would be unable to tell anyone about it as the gravity of the hole would probably have a far greater and inexorable attraction than that of publishing papers and press releases.

A virtual black hole is attained by smashing charged particles together. It's massless, and thus, gravityless.

Even if you could produce a worm hole that connects a point in our space/time to an Earth of an alternate space time you'd need to figure out how to convert organic matter into energy and then revert it back into living matter other wise anybody who travels through the worm hole will be placed into a gravitational meat grinder. Because of the dangerous gravity fluxuations in wormholes that would tare people apart I don't think wormholes are the answer for time travel or even space travel for that matter.

I think that time travel is a very real consideration, but on the quantum level only as gravity and other restrictions to the human corporeal would restrict any movement other than static on earth or in an earth-like environment. But the science of quantum dynamics is not easily understood, and so it may be several generations before the acceptance of the reality of thought travel via the quantum level. Also one major problem is the apparent reluctance for mankind to understand that it is only his body which restricts travel, and not his mind and the imagination is the cheapest and most easily procured air ticket imaginable!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

Even if you could produce a worm hole that connects a point in our space/time to an Earth of an alternate space time you'd need to figure out how to convert organic matter into energy and then revert it back into living matter other wise anybody who travels through the worm hole will be placed into a gravitational meat grinder. Because of the dangerous gravity fluxuations in wormholes that would tare people apart I don't think wormholes are the answer for time travel or even space travel for that matter.

I've always wondered about this - I've been told that it could be possible to use a toroid blackhole as a launching device by letting water (or something that might actually remain liquid in space) spiral towards the blackhole, thus giving you an approach trajectory, and then being sucked through the centre. I always figured you'd wind up as a tightly packed stream of particles, rather than a person in a spacecraft at your chosen destination.

Even if you could produce a worm hole that connects a point in our space/time to an Earth of an alternate space time you'd need to figure out how to convert organic matter into energy and then revert it back into living matter other wise anybody who travels through the worm hole will be placed into a gravitational meat grinder. Because of the dangerous gravity fluxuations in wormholes that would tare people apart I don't think wormholes are the answer for time travel or even space travel for that matter.

This is why I think only consciousness would be able to traverse through time

The picture that Alafair linked showed a double-ended trumpet shape (from a torus field, which forms the basic building block of the universe: vortexes), this is the same shape as the cohesive electrical field around the human body (the aura) and also the same shape that modern clairvoyants report as being the chakras. The timewave that Terence McKenna speaks of can also be visualised as a double-ended vortex --- squeezing us into zero-point where only shareable (fractal) waves can surivive before being squirted out the other side.

Time travel is a natural human ability, it's only because we Fell that heaven and earth were split from each other, which is reflected by our split brain hemispheres, which is reflected in our schizophrenic modern psychology which splits the mind into conscious and unconscious. The merkaba/merkabah/merkavah (light chariot) spoken of in so many cultures is our usual way of travelling through space and time, which coincidentally is the same shape as a UFO (it's embarrassing to travel around in metal craft!) also relates to the technology used during the PX and Montauk Project --- counter-rotating fields.

This is my first post on these forums, hi!

This is my first post on these forums, hi!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye.gif)

The merkaba/merkabah/merkavah (light chariot) spoken of in so many cultures is our usual way of travelling through space and time, which coincidentally is the same shape as a UFO (it's embarrassing to travel around in metal craft!) also relates to the technology used during the PX and Montauk Project --- counter-rotating fields.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

Actually this is a most astute observation, and it would be interesting to hear if anyone else concurs.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

I've always wondered about this - I've been told that it could be possible to use a toroid blackhole as a launching device by letting water (or something that might actually remain liquid in space) spiral towards the blackhole, thus giving you an approach trajectory, and then being sucked through the centre. I always figured you'd wind up as a tightly packed stream of particles, rather than a person in a spacecraft at your chosen destination.

Interesting point. I still speculate that regardless of the method of transportation, if a black hole strips all matter done to nothing but "singularitytrons" - huh I just made that up - you'd still need to figure out how to revert that matter back to its original form. I don't think it'd really matter if a person entered a worm whole in space ship or liquid slip stream.

This is why I think only consciousness would be able to traverse through time

Hey welcome Zugzwan. I like this idea. Imagine if one day we could transmute consciousness into energy that can retain awareness, yet reamin in a state that enables it to endure the rigors of a worm hole. Then there'd be no need to change the energy back to organic form because its already a living being. Crazy Sci-fi stuff I tell you. I like it.

Imagine if one day we could transmute consciousness into energy that can retain awareness, yet reamin in a state that enables it to endure the rigors of a worm hole. Then there'd be no need to change the energy back to organic form because its already a living being. Crazy Sci-fi stuff I tell you. I like it.

When you look into such things as: http://www.nso.lt/abydos/abydos.htm etc, and see how advanced the Egyptians were with their death sciences - it's hard to believe they didn't investigate remote viewing, as the intelligence services famously did during the cold war. Need I mention MK-ULTRA...

Remote viewing was used during Vietnam and the Gulf Wars to help targeting specific people in the future. Then remember that ancient and medieval armies would usually have a mystic who would peer through the veils of time to see how the enemy would attack, and the commander(s) would take that into account - depending on their own predisposition to such information.

If you find the above hard to believe then think about ghosts, have they really been around for thousands of years wandering the earth? Or is there some sort of problem with how they are interacting with time which shows us that time isn't what we think it is at all? This depends on how you think ghosts manifest and what they actually are (i.e. some may simply be people astral projecting from the past, or something may have happened to their physical bodies while in that state, or maybe they are an example that the future, past, and present all exist simultaneously).

What about UFOs? Are they simply our future selves time travelling back to the present and the past? If so, for what reason?

What I'm implying here in this post, is what you said is crazy sci-fi stuff may be part of our everyday reality.

This post has been edited by Zugzwang: Nov 10 2006, 08:28 AM

Wormholes and Portals are the only current known way to time travel. Albeit we can't use either ATM.