Why Not Serve The Ancient Ones? Options

Maybe I'm weird, but I understood it to mean a goat, as "kid" refers to a young goat, and is only slang for a human child.

I doubt R. Campbell Thompson got the cruciform translation wrong, more like someone decided to get his english translation of the translation of the cruciform wrong.

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 18 2006, 05:58 PM

you know I am just trying to keep you on your toes, and not trying to personally attack your beliefs ashnook? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 18 2006, 11:04 PM

you know I am just trying to keep you on your toes, and not trying to personally attack your beliefs ashnook? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ya but I gotta make a show (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dumbells.gif) .


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)

Im a noob to magic but not at all from the perspective of sorcery and mysticism. Is not the term Serve a little bit wrong? I mean no matter how much magic and dreaming i practice i will never serve any but God. All the rest i would say servitude or worship is not going to happen in any shape or form. I can also see the point of serving the mother but not worship. Why worship the mother of this world ? we are no more of this world than god himself? We are on this world and it in turn gives us great power and energy but any worship i will reserve for the one and only.
Im no Christian by any strech but i do know for sure that god is with us. He is a part of us and the world and all. as for any other gods well they have no power more than any single human here on the planet. The power or the affect is a direct part of ones self not some outside source. The energy and the comprehension of the power (in the case of elementals) may be earthly and our physical body is earthly also. But our spirit lives forever and this "earth" is but one mansion that god has for us. To place it in the hands of anything but myself and god is foolish.

Im a noob to magic but not at all from the perspective of sorcery and mysticism. Is not the term Serve a little bit wrong? I mean no matter how much magic and dreaming i practice i will never serve any but God. All the rest i would say servitude or worship is not going to happen in any shape or form. I can also see the point of serving the mother but not worship. Why worship the mother of this world ? we are no more of this world than god himself? We are on this world and it in turn gives us great power and energy but any worship i will reserve for the one and only.
Im no Christian by any strech but i do know for sure that god is with us. He is a part of us and the world and all. as for any other gods well they have no power more than any single human here on the planet. The power or the affect is a direct part of ones self not some outside source. The energy and the comprehension of the power (in the case of elementals) may be earthly and our physical body is earthly also. But our spirit lives forever and this "earth" is but one mansion that god has for us. To place it in the hands of anything but myself and god is foolish.

I think that is what the original poster was getting at. He thinks all the sumerian gods are fallen angels, hey it says so in the book of Enoch (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)



Reach out and touch faith!!!

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 19 2006, 06:52 PM

For sure thats why i had to post up. I guess i dont understand why worship fallen ones? Would it not be better to control any and all demons and gods other than the one? Dont get me wrong i can see that in the ancient times there would be a name for earth, air, fire, and water, of godly attribute. But now? we know for certain that we control these things. The elements "that i have seen named as gods" are controlled easy enough with Tibetan mysticism.

Personally, I believe in a unified consciousness paradigm - in which there is one supreme conscious Force in the universe, which manifests itself into existence by its own nature. Within that consciousness, as with our own, I believe that our individuality is an illusion, the perception of the energy that makes up our form and animates our being. We are but a spark of the Force, confined to the physical dimensions.

Within that, I believe that the differences between the Elder Gods and the Ancient Ones is a matter of the nature of consciousness.

To serve or worship either one is simply to align one's purpose and action in life with either one of those archetypal forces in human consciousness. To worship the Ancient Ones is to serve the purpose in life of returning the world to chaos and nothingness, the void of creation from which all things sprang from. The Ancient Ones personify that force, and parallel the pre-existence of the literal universe in my mind.

The Elder Gods, born of the void, as all things must be with it being the origin of the manifestation, represent to me the Intellect and Evolutionary aspect of existence. To align oneself with them is to further the goal of Evolution and Transcendence.

it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

If we are to assign these two parties singular attitudes and paradigms respective of their point of views, then we may imagine that within Chaotic Stillness, the absence of structure and pattern, there is an equanimity and peace that is perfect and sublime, undisturbed by any motion of thought or being. This sublime nothingness, the void of the abyss perhaps, is the only true manifestation of Peace.

The moment that intellect becomes, that thought and evolution begin, even on a purely quantum, nearly non-physical level, there is conflict in existence. Energy, is the result of destruction, fueling transmutation and ultimately evolution of consciousness, matter, and causality. There can be no Peace in this state, and so the ancient ones hate the Elder Gods for their Command of Being - that they are the movement in the stillness, the being in the nothingness, and they shape what is peaceful and sublime into something Restless and Concrete.

if you desire peace, and oblivion, then side with the ancient ones and strive to return the universe to its natural state.

If you desire evolution, advancement, ascension, and Beingness, which comes with experience and structured (though some more so and some less so) reality, then side with the Elder Gods.

Personally, I like that the universe continues to go, even it if does mean suffering and conflict.

peace

Thank you that helps me see. We are both dreamers and in my belief there is a single god that is all of creation. this spark we have in us allows us to do the "unimaginable" or the mystical. To part with that spark o annoy it by worship of other gods seems to me off the mark. I can surely see the wisdom of studying and knowing of the other gods .

Ok help me out. The ancient gods and the elders what is the differance? I mean where do both come from i guess? I took the elders to be the gods of mans creation through time. Like osiris,horus,isis?

Thank you that helps me see. We are both dreamers and in my belief there is a single god that is all of creation. this spark we have in us allows us to do the "unimaginable" or the mystical. To part with that spark o annoy it by worship of other gods seems to me off the mark. I can surely see the wisdom of studying and knowing of the other gods .

Ok help me out. The ancient gods and the elders what is the differance? I mean where do both come from i guess? I took the elders to be the gods of mans creation through time. Like osiris,horus,isis?

Hmm. Here's my opinion.

The natural order of the universe is, I believe, something that is inherently a part of us, like the concept of the Tao. One cannot but abide by nature's law, because it covers the entirety of possibility with it's system. Because of this unifying order, all conscious beings, the entire universe, instinctively or intuitively understands the total system of reality, even though it may be obscured and interpreted by the haze of ego incarnation. Man recognizes natural forces in the universe greater than himself, and he recognizes governing patterns by which all men must live. I believe that in it's primitive way, the developement of personofications of man's psychological patterns, and the deification of natural forces, is a way of naming that nameless feeling of instinctive natural order.

So, Many of the gods throughout ages of human mythology, as well as demons, angels, spirits, etc., turn up with similar characteristics. Five demons in five cultures are demons of greed, so naturally people make a connection in the future when these mythologies are lined up, and say, it's one demon, with five names. And, it might as well be, but greed can be differently interpreted by different cultures.

Also, there's the concept of the cultural cross pollination. Sometimes a guy from one end of the world goes seeking fortune or adventure, or knowledge, in another part, becomes fascinated by the local religion, and brings it back to his people, translated into their language, making the same mistakes we make now when we take something out of it's cultural context. A new religion springs up that's somehow similar, but at the same time different enough to be it's own cultural phenomenon.

So, most mythologies will connect to one another somewhere, because they all came from human imagination. Anything we command to have consciousness, incarnations of "God" that we are, has consciousness, we are all thoughtforms anyway, and so when enough people agree - or just one person, think of a personal servitor - that a god exists, it does. Gods exist in a certain level of the collective mind, which is to say there are several degrees of 'seperate' from God. This is my experience and information learned in my own travels, of course, which is to say that it is true according to my paradigm which produced the structure of my tutelage.

The occurrence of deities in human thought is natural - we know there's something beyond ourselves, and we have to make sense of it, so we invent gods with consciousness we can understand, who are like us, but bigger. It's not so far off, but I think it still creates a division between oneself and Force. Only my humble opinion, of course.

peace

I have read a few posts here about the Ancient Ones vs. The Elder Gods so I thought I would add some comments that maybe of use.
The Ancient Ones are , as some here a primal force/chaos. If you think in terms of metaphor the choices become very, very, clear. The reason why The Necronomicon is speaking from a perspective of The Elder Gods is for one important reason-SURVIVAL! Simon makes some valid points about this in his Gartes of The Necronomicon. Now let us consider why the Elder God perspective.

Personally I never looked at the two sides (Ancient Ones & Elder Gods) as actually in conflict once you look at it from a scientific point of view. The 41st name LUGALANNA states: [/i"The Power of the Eldest of the Elder Ones, possesses the secret knowledge of the world when the Ancient ones and the Elder Ones were one. Knows the Essence of the Ancient Ones and where it may be found..,From this qoute we are able to determine that the Ancient Ones and Elder Gods were at one time one. Yes, what is new came from that which is old. Yet their is one question that arises from reading this passage about the 41st name, and an explanation of it will also answer our questions about siding with the Ancient Ones.

If the Ancient Ones are the adversary, then why does it say in the commentary under the name LUGALANNA about finding the essence of the Ancient Ones? why does it make the suggestion to even look for it?

The answer to these questions even reinforces the reality and power of The Necronomicon system. When working with the Necronomicon we are begetten with power from Enki, working as his Priests. Uhmm. This would put us in a similiar role to that of Marduk, who was backed by Enki. Are we not using The 50 Names that were bestowed upon him after his conquest of The Dragon? Yet what soes this all have to do with connecting with the Elder Gods instead of The Anceint Ones- EVERYTHING!

I'm sure Edunpanna may want to add from his life experience on the next few statements. Most electricians can appreciate this. The Ancient Ones are a chaotic force. This is no mystery in occullt studies. From a scientific perspective (and the Necronomicon is indeed hidden science) Chaotic forces move with an unorganized manner. it is like very loose powerful energy that is not controlled. In such cases, energy of this sort has to be harnessed and made to submit to the will of the electrician to be used, is this not what Marduk did when he slew the Dragon? Indeed! Yet how do we prove this perspective is actually what the authors of this ancient war legend really meant? By using the oldest tarot deck in the world- a pack of playing cards. Now take all this Kings and Queens out of the deck. Marduk (kings) and Tiamat (Queens). now place all the Queens side by side in a horizontal fashion, then place all the kings in a horizontal fashion above the queens. Uhmm. Do you notice all the Queens are holding a flower? Could that not represent emotional or etheric energy? Now look above the Queens. What are the Kings holding as the lay horizontally above the Queens? Is it not a sword? Just like Marduk right. Didnt Marduk create the world with a portion of the slain Dragon? Oh you mean he was a good electrician and put that energy to good use right? Just lke in the deck of playing card. The Kings cut the flower or blossoming energy from dead matter righ at the appropiate time to create a universe. Doesn't the word universe mean "one movement?" Uhmm. In a deck of playing cards what does the King do with the flower or energy that he cut at the right moment from the Queen? he creates something unque-right? What is higher than the King or Queen in a deck of playing cards? Wait! Isn't it the Ace? Oh yeah and Ace can sometimes represent [/i]one[i]-like one movement ..,universe..

As warriors of Enki, we must work like electricians. Is it not said that man was created from both element-Tiamat and the spirit of the Elder Gods? So we have this electrical current (Tiamat) runnig thru us, and animating us and the world. Now what did Simon teach us in his book Gates? Is it not to create an astral body? Isn't that what we are doing when we begin walking the Gates? As that Astral Body develops we are able to control those uncontrollable sides of us-arent we? We are acting like Enki's chief agent Marduk in making that chaotic energy (or dragon) submit to our will. Once we have completed this task. now we are working as electrician just fixing spots here and there where the chaotic energy leaks or Ancient Ones lashing out.

But wait! Isn't it predicted that the Ancient Ones will rule again? Of course they will. See once the electrician or priest have gather themselves together and accumulated enough energy for themselves. They will live and create a more higher evolved place and they will allow the Dragon to fill this dimension so they can step down and use its energy to create that world and many other. What you have read is the process of how universes are create and why both functions are needed. Work with intelligence. We have a whole new world to create.!

Think about it!

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Mar 1 2007, 11:15 PM

All that he stated could have been sumed up in 1 set or
post!

If this forum is like others I have been on----you get point or marks for each post!

Hence He created what some call sock posting for points!

The war in his head in not factual but minumal & repeats only to suit the

needs of self glorifying!
This is why he has to state more then one post he is not a pagon--
It sounds like --He is above it!

If not a pagon--Then why conjur & why the book of the dead!

This sounds pagon to me!

DJINN2, this is your second warning on this forum - if you're not going to contribute something meaningful, or at least ask a question or offer some kind of opinion on the subject matter at hand, you'll be suspended. Amongst all the moderators I probably have more patience than any of them, and I've taken a special attention to you. Do not abuse it.

There are many paths in magickal practice, there are a million roads to truth. Some benefit best by viewing reality as filled with tension between two poles, some see it as a series of emnations from one source, still others see a unified reality with no tension at all, as the endless dance of Siva or some other god, perfect as it is in it's evolutionary growth. None of those views is perfect, nor do any of them truly encompass reality in it's absolute truth. It is not for us here to criticize anyone's views, but rather to take them as perspectives to be discussed intelligently. There is no rule that you must accept as truth anyone's paradigm here, but there is no harm in assuming for just a moment that any paradigm might be valid, and discussing it from that point of view. It is in this way - by seeing all these threads of thought with detachment - that we accumulate a broadened mind, a wealth of perspective, and by digesting these things, ultimately, wisdom.

So, keep an opened mind, and keep your exchanges here focused on moving forward in some way - wether that is asking a good question, or offering your perspective for us to benefit from. Attacking ethics, motives, etc., serves no purpose.

peace

mm all,

"and i thought i was nuts"!

very good and informative post by warlock asylum, btw

in the paranormal world (also the stargate tv show) they acknowledge the concept and imply that the ancient ones are the gray aliens, and the elder gods (aka elder race) are the powerful children of the ancients, who violated the 'hands off' directive of the ancients (evolution without interference) and 'helped' us (and themselves)

they also address the growing problem with technology versus spirituality (sword versus psyche), the mind power (for want of a better term) of the ancients versus the technology of the elder race

and to 'serve' either, is, as you say, incorrect - it is a matter, imo, of 'intentional inviting of possession' (via different methods), or 'executing their will' here on earth because it jives with your will (as in agreement, or 'with the pack' as opposed to a single wolf)

can you image the enormous mind power of such creatures that they can actually project their consciousness (for want of a better term) all the way here (from wherever they are) and interact with us and the environment here as they do? wow!

es

Now why did nothingness itself--or THE Ancient One beget APSU? Or why did nothingness become something. Akin to not existing and then suddenly become zero--which is not the samething! Zero denotes the absence of substance--nothingness means that--NOTHING.

My theory is thus--to expand ones power one must spread it out and let it grow on its own and build upon itself that way. Like spreading seeds and growing more plants that way therefore having more lifeforce--aka--energy. So THE Ancient One spread its essence out and begot APSU--first emination of existence ( I am led to think by the Sumerian Creation mythos). APSU was male in nature and in time his "waters" bore a companion TIAMAT. I tend to think APSU was the main body of creation whereas TIAMAT was the resulting material form of that "APSU" spliting apart or spreading out. Now TIAMAT bore "children" which really are the celestial bodies we call the planets. So she gave form to our percieved universe--so she is the crreator of the material plane then? I think so. Perhaps APSU was a theoretical/astral entity or thoughtform bore of the Ancient One. Out of that thoughtful came creation or action--hence TIAMAT.

Now what I am getting at is this, why would that which created everything want to see its demise? Mainly us humans. Heres why I think so. remember how I said THE Ancient One spread its essence out to gain more power or to grow, what would happen if something out there figured out this gameplan and decided to rebel against it and took matters into their own hands and wanted to harness that power for other resons. Well naturally we would have a war on our hands. Hence the cosmic war between the Elder Gods and The Ancient Ones. It is summarized that the Ancient Ones represent Uncreation and the Elder Gods represent creation. Well that may be true but it really is this:

Elder Gods represent self realization and Evolution unto higher principals of existence. In other words the Elder Gods want those "seeds" to know what they are and to grow up strong and bear good fruit for the universe and to create more good crop.

Ancient Ones represent the primal pure essence of the universe and donot like the tampering w/ the chaotic order ( I know, I know) of the "natural" universe. And we are an example of that tampering w/ the universe. And if we Evolve we are disrupting the original plan of THE Ancient One. For once one becomes aware of the fact they can become like THE Ancient One one can become more than a slave or puppet of some church or whatever. I happen to think that what the monotheistic mass-control-machine "GOD" really is is THE Ancient One. Not based on the scriptures or hymns--no--isnt "GOD" the beginning, the now and the end? Sounds liek what THE Ancient One is to me! So the church really is a complex herd control effort of the Ancient Ones to keep this Evolution I speak of and the Elder Gods desire for us to rise to "god-hood" stunted. It served only to delay the seemingly inevitable.

Whew!!! This is the ramblings of one mind only--this can be taken w/ a bucket of salt.....

The reason I don't worship any God or set of Gods is because I don't trust authority figures to hold my best interests in their minds. Besides if we considered who the fallen angels from Enoch really are we could point in many directions because no fallen angels have ever stepped up and said hey folks I'm a fallen angel. Its possible that the fallen ones would actually hold a high regard for mankind and want to aid us, not punish us. Thus its possible that any prophet through out the ages could be a fallen angel. maybe Jesus was one. Maybe Christianity is the religion of the fallen angels bestowed upon mankind to hold us in their subjegation. Perhaps one who was fallen wouldn't even know they were. So why pick sides if its not clear which is black or white? For religious purposes I choose to follow my heart and my heart tells me to not pick sides because in greater scheme of things who's good and who's evil becomes blured. I believe if I am ever to be given a final judgement any truely benevolent diety would recognize the greater qualities of my life and spare my soul from damnation. I would think that that deity would do the same for any other genuine individual who's only goal was to live a good life and not intentionally screw other people over.

I have similar attitude.Respect for all entities but worship of none.

This post has been edited by Ra Hoor Khuit: Mar 10 2007, 03:31 AM

93 Brother!

I have similar attitude.Respect for all entities but worship of none.

100% ack . I have good relationships with some gods and I respect them but I won't throw myself into the dirt

93-93/93
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