Yhwh in Sumeria, Yhwh in Sumer? Options

Hey guys, well i know like for instance, there is a great probaliliby that vishnu in hinduism is Enki. Ziku is ganesha.

I would like anyone to share if he can knw who of the entities of the Nec incarnated as Jesus.

And of anyone has a valid theory of Who Allah might have been.

Allah could be Marduk and or even one of the 50 names. The 50 names are not only angels but some are gods too.



regards

Mystick

This post has been edited by mystick: Nov 8 2006, 01:38 PM

Allah = El = Ea = Enki. As for Jesus, you got me, but I'd say the mythology would make Marduk a good candidate.

Well considering how Jews and Muslims ahte one another--and how ENLIL and MARDUK loathe one another--I am guessing MARDUK=Allah and ENLIL=Jehova/Yahweh. As for Jesus--there was charecter in Sitchin's LOST BOOK OF ENKI named GALZU who fits the bill nicely. He was an emissary of the Creator of all--beyond the Kingdom of even ANU. Just an idea--anyone heard anything about GALZU?

The ceremonial magician who is sworn to Yahweh may find with a little research that Yahweh and Marduk are indeed the same God. Marduk and Yahweh or Jehovah had a common name of IAHU. In both Sumerian and Hebrew it means exalted dove. In the book of Job there is a historical account of creation as opposed to the Poetic account found in Genesis. In which Yahweh kills the dragon Leviathan which was the sea and creates the Heavens and Earth from its body. Also in the book of Job the underworld is placed beneath the sea as it is in the Necronomicon. ABSU is the great deep realm of Enki which he gained power over when he put the spell on the god ABSU. The Necronomicon hell is beneath ABSU or perhaps a place in ABSU. The Hebrew correlations are because as it tells us in the book of Genesis Abram or Abraham came from UR of the Chaldea’s.

Archeologists do not base their conclusions on personal belief or the religion of their choice. As the Bible tells us in the book of Genesis Abraham the father of the Hebrews came from Ur of the Chaldea’s. Yahweh and Marduk according to Archeologists are the same deity in different times.

I think we would be a little sort sighted to think that Yahweh and Allah are not the same God. According to the Koran Allah is also the God of the people of the book or Bible.

In the Sumerian language ala means God. Pronounced Ahl-lah. It should not be surprising that the modern Mesopotamians still use the word Allah to mean God.

Lets also not forget that one of the 50 names is named Mallah. Drop the M and you have Allah.

I also like the argument that El or Enki is Yahweh. The Sumerian Trinity would be Anu Enki and Marduk. This marks the divine passage of power.

Enki to me is the Holy Spirit. Marduk is the father. And the priest is the Son. This argument I base on Jesus being a man and not a God. He always said in the Bible that he was the son of man. Never not even once did he ever say he was the son of God. Why then would Jesus lie to us if he really was the son of God?

Also as Jesus is the Sun King and as his cult was based on the Sun God mysteries the Necronomicon Jesus could be viewed as Shamash. The blood of Jesus was wine. His flesh was the bread. The grape and wheat is of course grown by the Sun. We enter now the Mithras and Dionysus / Bacchus worship. Christians are after all just modern pagans.

Another way to view the Necronomicon Jesus is with my Queen Inanna. After all she went to Hell and was crucified. She rose from death and from Hell the spirits of the dead left with her. Inanna was the first Christ.

Lets examine the cross. An ancient Sun symbol. The Romans in fact used the cross to crucify because of its Sun status. In fact the priests of ancient Samaria used the cross in their rites as well to symbolize Shamash. Also they Baptized with water. And so we can say that the Sumerians were the first Christians.

The important thing to remember is that compared to God we are just a bunch of monkeys jumping up and down slinging shit at each other as we all claim our religion is correct and all else are false.

Perhaps God is a little bit smarter than us. Perhaps he has many paths for many people. Perhaps all Gods are just emanations of the one true God.

The first thing you have to do to truly know God is admit that you do not know shit. From this mind state God will be more than happy to speak to you.

Let me strongly emphasize that this is just my opinion. And as we all know opinions are like bum holes. Every body has one. Now you have mine.

Peace to all!

Thanks for the insights smasher! I admit that my knowledge of Mesopotamian mythology is mostly limited to the Necronomicon, related wikipedia searches and what little Zechariah Sitchin I remember from grade school. However, biblical & linguistic scholarship tends to think of YHVH and El as two different entities that were merged through syncretism in the confusion of changing from polytheism and competing tribal-state gods to unified national monotheism. Of course, when we make an issue of all Gods being an expression of the true God or throw the qabalah or modern religious theory into the mix, it gets even wierder, but I like the idea that Yah is Marduk and need to look into what Sumerian deities are distinct and what are just other names for the same guy.

[Greetings TheOneTrueFred,

Zechariah Sitchin wrote some nice science fiction in his 12th planet series. That’s all it is basically is science fiction. Sitchin should have at least done some research into the Sumerian Gods and got the basic facts straight before he started telling his fables. I once started going through the Lost Book of Enki and was planning on recording all of his inconsistencies with what the actual Sumerian legend was. Sitchen had so many errors literally on every page that I became overwhelmed with it a quit the project. I could write a book on Sitchens fug ups.

However he did write some nice science fiction there. Anyone who likes aliens / space ships etc might appreciate his works. Never look towards him as a source on Sumerian myth however.

Peace!

Smasher,

Totally agreed there. I've read Sitchin and besides the errors in the mythology, are his mis-translations of the ancient languages. I'd like to try and give some examples, but i think my eyes might starting bleeding. Bleh. He actually tried to equate the word MU with Rocket Ship. nuff' said.
As for the Sumerian identity of Yahweh, i think one must take into account also the changes in said deity between the Torah and New Testament. In the old testament he was angry, wrathful god who acted basically like a raging alcoholic.
In the New Testament he's all about peace and love and forgiveness.
My opinion on it is that this speaks to the overthrowing of Enlil by Enki. Old testament Yahweh=Enlil New testament =Enki.
Also, I think your spot on about the Jesus question by equating him more to a priest rather than a divinity.

Peace,

Greetings Lugal Nostoro Tehuti,

Enlil represents the old kingship. Those powers were transferred to Marduk at the time all of Enki’s foresight came into fruition. In the Old Testament Yahweh was a total dork hole in regards to his people. Demanding that they wander around the desert and killing them and such. This would be in concordance with dork hole Enlil flooding the Earth. The flood myth could be a common thread. Dork hole Yahweh floods the Earth. Dork hole Enlil floods the Earth. In both stories a man builds a boat and survives the flood eventually landing on a mountain.

Then as if he either had a stroke and took on a new personality or started smoking really good bud suddenly God does become Mr. Nice guy in the New Testament.

I really like the intelligence of this argument.

In the Bible you may recall a story where the Hebrews went to a temple locked the doors and slaughtered all the priests. These priests were worshiping a deity called Baal-Yahweh. The Hebrews were angry because non Jews were sacrificing to their God. I forget exactly what book of the Bible this is in. I believe the non Hebrews were Canaanites. I think the deity Baal-Yahweh is definitely worth looking into. Just run a Google search.

And so it seems that many before us thought Marduk to be connected to Yahweh as Baal is Marduk.

Zi Dingir Marduk Kanpa!

I have to agree w/ Seraphim on this, I really think Yahweh is ENLIL. All the stories in the Old Testament are such vivid descriptions of ENLIL it is startling. The God of the Torah is a mean a$%*#!*--not unlike ENLIL. That God is not very forgiving--like ENLIL. AS for magick---YHWH has his followers (Golden Dawn,OTO) go through lots of useless meanderings to achieve something they could achieve in half the time if there just was an avenue available for them. Thse groups work very similarly to Christianity and Judaism--they tend to brainwash their mambers into a false sense of superiority. It is sad. I have just realized this last statement in the last 2 months, for it seems all GD and OTO folk (i have met) seem to criticize the Necronomicon to no end w/o EVER trying any of its rituals. Now thats not in the adventurous magickal spirit, now is it? OK-later ya'll............ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

Let us not forget that Marduk only took over Enlil's powers in the later mesopotamian cultures. In the Sumerian writings, Enki replaced Enlil. Also, you are absolutley correct about the equation of the Cannanite "Baal" to Marduk.

Greetings,

On the identity of the Old Testament Yahweh; This is from Genesis 2: 9-19

9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The SERPENT beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the LORD God said unto the SERPENT, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


OK, well that Yahweh sounds like a really pissed off Enlil, angry that Enki had seduced and taught 'Eve' about sex, thus elevating humanity and allowing us to reproduce. And if you'll remember, Enki was a major skirt chaser many times seducing women and was also associated heavily with dragons, or serpents.
Also, the way Yahweh in these passages speaks to Adam/Adapa and Eve, it seems almost as though he's talking to someone else's creations, I.E Enki's newly created humans. Now, i can't exactly remember which text it was, but when the Gods decided to create man, it was Enki who would do it, but on the condition brought forth by Enlil, that they not become to numerous. So naturally Enlil would be really annoyed if Enki went and taught us how to do that anyway.
The nature of the Serpent in the above text really fits Enki's nature. Enlil wanted us kept on the level of animals, Enki raised us up. Enlil wanted us destroyed by a flood, again Enki gave him the finger and saved us.
So i really feel the Enlil to Enki, or Enlil to Marduk transition theory of the Biblical Yahweh fits pretty well.
And as you mention Smasher, Baal being Marduk makes a great argument for the New Testament Yahweh being Marduk. Just look at how 'Yahweh' until the end of the Old Testament, would just go off the handle when his people encountered Baal worshipers. He was doing everything he could to keep Marduk from gaining followers and thus taking his throne. The perfect example is the unmitigated hatred the Old Testament Yahweh and his people had for Babylon, Marduk's major city.

Another interesting thing to be looked into would be the arguments between 'Yahweh' and 'Satan' in the Book of Job. Especially since in the original Hebrew, yahweh isn't arguing with 'Satan', he's arguing with someone called 'Ha Sa-tan', which means 'The Adversary'. In fact, this may have been the point in which Enlil and Enki switched places. In this account it is Yahweh who gave Job and his family many blessings and a good life, while the satan is all jealous about and thinks Job will turn his back on yahweh if he's stricken. And all the crap done to Job certainly seems like something Enlil would do. but that's just a quick thought.lol
Enlil to Enki, or Enlil to Marduk?hmmm
Peace.

In dead names Simon hints that he thinks Allah = Nergal.

Read pages 190 to 196

hey whats up everyone

I have few questions about Necronomicon spellbook the fifty names. If i wanted to charged
a spirit sigil . I choose lets say Shazu he gives a person use of telepathy or teachs it to them.
now how would he teach me telepathy. Or would it be like if i carrie around his sigil i will be able to hear the thoughts of others.
here is another other question i hear people say spirits teach people things. How is that do they talk to you in your head or is it they give you images or vist you wow one is dreaming something like or how would they go about teaching you something. Now there is one of the spirits in the book named suhgurim as any one worked with him. Does he find out your enemy and destorys him if you tell him too. Also after if I charge there sigil do i take it with me like were ever I go or just forget about it or possibly both. thats some of the questions i would like to know thank you in advance and for the record bad at grammer.

Greetings Twlztid,

There seems to be a lot of interest in Shazu lately. I am hearing his name from many people. I would recommend calling Shazu via the Spellbook method and requesting the power of telepathy from him. It would be wise to burn the Agga Mass Ssaratu and lots of incense. Also make his seal with your own hand and stare at it. Stare at it often in a meditative state of mind. A great time to do this meditation is right before you go to sleep. So that the subconscious mind continues to work on the imagery as you sleep.

You will begin to realize the intentions of others. You will also know when their intentions are contradictory to their words. You will begin to understand what people are saying even if they are speaking a different language. Not word for word. But in general.

Suhgurim will only attack someone who deserves to be attacked. He is not a mindless entity. If he feels that your actions are unjust in asking him to attack someone unwarranted he may even instead punish you. If the person is in need of a good butt kicking he will dish one out. However I have never seen Suhgurim actually cause someone’s death. Suhrim is the silver bullet. Nuff said.

hey whats up everyone

I have few questions about Necronomicon spellbook the fifty names. If i wanted to charged
a spirit sigil . I choose lets say Shazu he gives a person use of telepathy or teachs it to them.
now how would he teach me telepathy. Or would it be like if i carrie around his sigil i will be able to hear the thoughts of others.
here is another other question i hear people say spirits teach people things. How is that do they talk to you in your head or is it they give you images or vist you wow one is dreaming something like or how would they go about teaching you something. Now there is one of the spirits in the book named suhgurim as any one worked with him. Does he find out your enemy and destorys him if you tell him too. Also after if I charge there sigil do i take it with me like were ever I go or just forget about it or possibly both. thats some of the questions i would like to know thank you in advance and for the record bad at grammer.

I find just gazeing at the sigil and chanting (while having the intent in mind) the name works fine. The spirit will show up and make sure you know it is there, so be prepared. But I am a chaos magician (I use the nec for its potent magicical thoughform) and not a priest so take my advice with a grain of salt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

This post has been edited by distillate: Nov 26 2006, 03:28 PM

Greetings Distillate,

Staring at the seal and chanting with intent in mind should prove quite effective.

I have found the spirits tend to WANT to be called. If they jive w/ u they come w/o much effort. Its the new ones (to ur personal calling experiences) that take some time to call. Its a frequency type thing I think.

I have found the spirits tend to WANT to be called. If they jive w/ u they come w/o much effort. Its the new ones (to ur personal calling experiences) that take some time to call. Its a frequency type thing I think.

def bro. sometimes I will let the book open itself.

Greetings fellow occultists.

Before any get alarmed, I want to state that what I present you with are my own present beliefs of YHWH from my past experiences, please, keep an open mind, and know that I am probably wrong as well.

As is a given, I am a studier of religions, and just recently, I had been studying the Bible - King James Version, as well as the Catholic one. What I've come to realize, which may seem preposterous to some, if not many, is that the Bible may have a higher reason than that of putting your faith in God. I believe (and these are my beliefs), that YHWH is actually a God of magic, and Jesus was a fabulous occultist. Now the Bible does beffudle its follower Christians with glib perspections and hidden profoundness, and not many do understand it; which is of course, the point.

The Bible is an intricate grimoire, which is to be re-assembled to be fathomed and understood. The Bible is hidden with profound information, save for the astute and keen of mind to penetrate it and understand what it teaches. I believe Jehova, as opposed to the god-type of Shaitan, or Say-Tan, is for keeping the occult - occult; by this I mean that he is a true magical god who seeks to keep the universal balance of the Occult hidden for those diligent and astute enough to seek it out, thus, not for everyone, for if the occult were for everyone, it'd have no power, and quickly become futile.

As we can see, the Bible has many versus that preach: " Do not commence in the path of the occult " for instance, or "Shun the occult for these reasons ", " Do not listen to the Devil ". These have inherent truth to them if taken with scrutiny and cognizance, but many are myopic and quickly befuddled by the intricacy of the teachings. The purpose, I believe Yahweh (or Jehova) set out for was to keep the occult hidden for those in their later incarnates, and those "ready" for the divine teachings, if you will. To fully understand the teachings, one must not only be keen about them, but also come in rapport with the Bible, without allowing all the folly judgementals impede.

Why is Say-Tan inimical, if Yahweh is almighty? Well, I personally do not believe that Yahweh is the Creator, but only a God, a stronger Jinn, if you will. I believe Yahweh very well may be Enki, and has been in disguise to keep the occult away from infidelity and myopicy. As we can see, the Aeon is of Lucifer (or the biblical Satan), and there is a higher penetration and reverence of the occult, as there was before. I personally would believe this to be a threat as well, for the occult is not occult when all is unfurled; but that is not the point here. Hegemony will reign over those who are not fit for the gold, and it will align with those who can see through the blurry dark; for if all would indulge in the secrecy, occult will be dead, and magic futile, harmony will cease in the hands of ignorance.


Keep us updated with valid info Necronomicon study groups, how will you postulate on this? Enki - Jehova (Yahweh).

This post has been edited by NecroReaper: Jan 29 2007, 01:55 PM

Greetings,

Enki-yhwh, absolutely. There's some minor disagreements among us in the Lodge atm as to whether Enki is Yhwh throughout the entire Bible, or if the Old Testament god isn't actually Enlil. Since Enlil tends be angry and vengeful, while Enki is kinder and more loving, it kind of fits the nature of the Yhwh of the Bible. Angery and mean in the old testament, kind and caring in the New Testament.
As for Jesus, I pretty much have to agree. Enki and Enlil had sons, but none of them were the Peace and Love types like Yeheshuah. Powerful magician, sure, why not? Son of God, no.
Abba Lugal Nosotro Tehuti.

Greetings,

Enki-yhwh, absolutely. There's some minor disagreements among us in the Lodge atm as to whether Enki is Yhwh throughout the entire Bible, or if the Old Testament god isn't actually Enlil. Since Enlil tends be angry and vengeful, while Enki is kinder and more loving, it kind of fits the nature of the Yhwh of the Bible. Angery and mean in the old testament, kind and caring in the New Testament.
As for Jesus, I pretty much have to agree. Enki and Enlil had sons, but none of them were the Peace and Love types like Yeheshuah. Powerful magician, sure, why not? Son of God, no.
Abba Lugal Nosotro Tehuti.

Well of course, I was mostly refering to the "New Testament" in the above, where YHWH actually shares Enki's traits. But in the Old Testament he shares more of Enlil's traits.

But I do believe that he is an extremely smart and profound God who is the sole reason the occult has rose in such power to this day, without any ignorance impeding and succumbing the growth of such a treasure. Many fall a victim to the Bible's "gilded" hegemony, if you will, and these people are those that are missing out on it's profound secrets, these are the people who are better left walking their walks and away from the secrets, whilst the true magicians do not falter to open their minds and audaciously seek the very places the Bible privies to.

In other words, he tells us: "When you're ready and have your heads out of your butts you'll see the treasure I've presented you with".

This post has been edited by NecroReaper: Jan 30 2007, 12:44 AM

In other words, he tells us: "When you're ready and have your heads out of your butts you'll see the treasure I've presented you with".

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

Good post NecroReaper,

I agree with the theory that the bible is a grimoire. I've come to believe that since I began to get into the occult and it's been a long road because I was raised Catholic, and I still consider myself Catholic for the simple reason that I don't believe it's actually possible to totally tear away from the religion that we are born into. I believe if we are born into a certain faith, we have to play the cards we are dealt. That's my opinion of course, so I don't mean to offend anybody.

That being said, I have (and will continue to do so) prayed and attempted to make contact with several Gods although mostly Goddesses (mainly because of the fact that the Church has always oppressed women, and I've tried to do the opposite of what the church advocates) of different pantheons and they have been much easier to contact than yehova. I suppose it's part of it's nature, being a God of the occult.

Despite all of that work with the different Godforms, I've come to accept that I was baptised to at least respect yehova, and I'm alright with that as long as he accepts I won't accept most church doctrine. After all, I don't believe the bible should be taken literally, and I don't believe yehova will smite me for sinning every now and again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

Despite all of that work with the different Godforms, I've come to accept that I was baptised to at least respect yehova, and I'm alright with that as long as he accepts I won't accept most church doctrine. After all, I don't believe the bible should be taken literally, and I don't believe yehova will smite me for sinning every now and again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

Of course he won't, sinning is only a notion of the mundane we have created to create order and stabalize society. Live life and enjoy, our fears are the only gods who can smite us down!

Nice. Put in that perspective, it sorta explains why when I tried to throw away my previous misconceptions, and connected to "angelic powers" under the context belief dynamic that you have described, NecroReaper, I was no longer plagued by certain energy fluxuations that kept me awake and in an enebriated state on the dreamscape rather than to the astral directly. Furthermore, I lost all sense of anxiety, if only for a moment, and the -barrier- which can be likened to a compressed field of white noise (the one I had problems with earlier) has been diminished greatly.

Thank you so much for your input. It makes a little more sense this way.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Since the bible was created in the 5th century I'd imagine that early Christian priests were viewed much the same way as pagan priest. They were probably seen as magicians, mystics and healers. Only after the rise of Catholicism and its monoply over the religion was there this split between Christians and ritual magick.

What I find interesting to consider is that YHWH is the God of Moses. Pre-Moses the Israelites believe in Elohim, the God of Abraham. Its possible that Elohim and YHWH could be used to mean the same deity. Yet it is also possible that the God of Moses was an alteration of the God of Abraham. And even more baffling is that Elohim can used as a plural world. Suggesting perhaps the ancient Israelis believed in many gods and Elohim was a way to express them all in one word. Perhaps then eventually as the Israelis became more homogenized the creation of monotheism simply came as a result of their grammar. It made more since to worship Elohim as one God rather than Elohim of the earth or wind.

When using the Bible to make comparisions between Enki, Enlil and YHWH I think its important to also consider Elohim as well. IMHO Enlil = Elohim, Enki = YHWH.

"To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of god, but to the rest it is given in parables, that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand".

Your belief makes way more sense to me than any conventional religious explanation of the bible. From reading theories and explanations from many different sources I came to a similar conclusion. The bible is not meant to be taken word for word but there is possibly profound knowledge encoded symbolically into it.

I dont mean to offend anyone with this post.So i apologize in advance if i do.I grew up in my life with very bad experience with regards to christianity and christians in general.I went from being born with a silver spoon in my mouth(READ MILLIONAIRE) to living in a rented apartment eating porridge after my family got swindled by some pastors.Because of that,i grew up with tremendous hatred towards names like elohim and yahweh and i cursed and sweared at yahweh many times for what "his guys" did to me.I have matured as the years passed by and have come to think of him as Creator,master and leader of the Solar realm of entities with the proud solar angelic entities serving him.I believe that these solar entities are in constant battle with another group,the Lunar entities where magick which uses the Moon as its source comes from.I still dont care much about him,but wierdly enough i think highly of our dear old JC.

I do not know how much that was written about JC was real and whether he was truly the son of God or was he just an enlightened being.But any man,who gives his life for what he believed in(whether it was real or not doesnt matter),for the sin of men of all things,thats what i call RESPECT..I dont care much about the bible,or yahweh,but JC,that guy i respect..Peace..

I agree with you there Om. How many people would die for anyone in this day and age? Maybe in the service or a loved one but to just die for someone? Thats how it should be. Although its a childrens story the chronicles of Narnia covers that very well. Not only did he die for someone he died for someone who had betrayed him. It makes no differance its still a human and they still have a soul.