Bune, Will this work ? Options

Hi all,

In a couple of weeks I am going to evoke Bune - I will mark out a triangle on the floor with Bunes Sigil in the circle, Sandalwood Incense
burning and a concave glass black mirror at the top corner of the triangel ( a ring of consecrated salt will also go around the triangle).

Upon having set up the circle and consecrated I will performthe LBRP nad then the LBRH; then I will procedd to evoke Bune, hopefully seeing
him in the triangle.

Here's the deal - what I will be requesting is a large amout of money, something along the lines of a lottery win, making sure to emphasise that NO ONE gets hurt - either physically, mentally or emotionally as a result of this, also emphasising that there are to be no consequences
from either a negative or karmic point of view. I wish to tell Bune at this point that apart from exalting him by engraving his sigil in metal, I will also promise to spend a percentage of the money won on exalting him ( by using it get his Sigil specially and professionaly engraved, etc).

I've been thinking about and working on this for some time and have realised that this is the ONLY way that I will ever be able to get this amount of money. If this is successful, I will be able to devote much more time to my magical studies without the worry of losing my flat ! Added to this I will have emphasised that NO One will be harmed in any way and nothing negative is to come of this. Also this isnt theft, it's nobodys money and I will pay and enter the draw fairly just like anyone else - just tyhe fact is I will win ! So I cannot see a problem.
I'm deadly serious about performing this and was really appreciate any coments, advise, etc that anyone can give me about this. A concern of mine is that Bune will "haunt" or harrass me after the ritual is long over, even if I have banished corectky and fulfilled my part of the bargain. Also, this will be my very first summoning and during my research I'v eread accounts that bune can be aggressive. Comments much appreciated,

Regards,

Stevekent

As an afterthought, there is no way that I will be able to construct a 9ft circle, I don't have a room big enough so I will just
have to make it as big as I can which I hope will not affect things.

Hello, well first of all let me know how that goes hehe i could use some money too. Secondly if you are afraid that Bune might still be around after the ritual, then maybe that's your subconcious telling you that you need more practice maybe on performing the ritual itself or on the banishing techniques like your LBRP and/or LBRH. Also when dealing with Goetic spirits, when you promise to do something in return for the favor you ask, be sure to cover the end of your bargain as soon as possible and not postpone doing it or anything. So if you're gonna promise to Bune that you will engrave its sigil on metal, than do so as soon as possible.
On the after thought. The circle doesn't have to be 9ft, those are like guidelines. As long as you fit in and wont accidentally have parts of you crossing the circle it'll be fine. Is this gonna be your first Goetic evocation? Id be interested to know how this working turns out.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

Hello, well first of all let me know how that goes hehe i could use some money too. Secondly if you are afraid that Bune might still be around after the ritual, then maybe that's your subconcious telling you that you need more practice maybe on performing the ritual itself or on the banishing techniques like your LBRP and/or LBRH. Also when dealing with Goetic spirits, when you promise to do something in return for the favor you ask, be sure to cover the end of your bargain as soon as possible and not postpone doing it or anything. So if you're gonna promise to Bune that you will engrave its sigil on metal, than do so as soon as possible.
On the after thought. The circle doesn't have to be 9ft, those are like guidelines. As long as you fit in and wont accidentally have parts of you crossing the circle it'll be fine. Is this gonna be your first Goetic evocation? Id be interested to know how this working turns out.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

Hello, well first of all let me know how that goes hehe i could use some money too. Secondly if you are afraid that Bune might still be around after the ritual, then maybe that's your subconcious telling you that you need more practice maybe on performing the ritual itself or on the banishing techniques like your LBRP and/or LBRH. Also when dealing with Goetic spirits, when you promise to do something in return for the favor you ask, be sure to cover the end of your bargain as soon as possible and not postpone doing it or anything. So if you're gonna promise to Bune that you will engrave its sigil on metal, than do so as soon as possible.
On the after thought. The circle doesn't have to be 9ft, those are like guidelines. As long as you fit in and wont accidentally have parts of you crossing the circle it'll be fine. Is this gonna be your first Goetic evocation? Id be interested to know how this working turns out.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

Hi Abijah,
Thanks for the wise words. This will be my first evocation and I've been planning this for months. My major concern is that, quite simply, nothing will happen which will be so, so disappointing after having spent so long preparing for it.


Stevekent

I never did anything of that, but i am planning in doing the same as you, tell me how it went... now my advices
Train in the LBRP as much as you can, and when in the ritual do the LBRP, followed of a BRP and a middle pilar, that's enough!
Now while invoking, have you worked your astral senses? if didn't i suggest you to, and don't be afraid of failing, trust yourself, and while doing the evokation say to yourself, this WILL work, and don't never think it won't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

First of all, have you tried to work with him using dreams? Can you astral project or induce lucid dreams? How are your skrying skills? All of these are great methods to try to actively start an open line of communication with Bune. Goetics (some, not all) are nice and easy to work with. But if you are letting yourself get convinced by other people's stories about him, then you'll get that kind of experience, whether it's good or bad. So relax, and try your best to be respectful.

I don't recommend using the consecrated ring of salt around the triangle. Might make his "arrival" very painful since it's supposed to keep spirits like him away, and he might decide that you are insulting him with it. How would you like it if you were invited to have dinner at a stranger's house and were told you had to stay inside an electrified cage during your stay?

I've been working with Orobas lately in a non-evocational way that I hope will be very beneficial. He seems to be nice and patient, although he does want respect which is perfectly understandable. I recommend you try working with him to fix your luck. I hear he's good at picking good lottery numbers. The only thing I can say about him is that if you try my method (burning or giving offerings on the hour of Jupiter), make sure you don't burn any other scents that are not specifically for him. I had really terrible bad luck one day after a friend of mine smoked a cigarrette in my room when I stepped out. I had warned him not to do it, and we both got the backlash the next day.

The circle is only necessary if you are going to evoke him, and especially if you've never done an evocation. Trust me, it'll make you feel more confident in yourself if you have it. Try to use consecrated salt around it to make it strong. Make an effort to make it 9 feet wide also, because that number pertains to Yesod, the astral plane, which is where you will be bringing him. Don't have any preconceived notions about him testing your circle. Most likely he won't if you aren't demanding at the top of your lungs that he show up in the triangle. Besides, if you feel the circle isn't holding up, it's probably your faulty construction of it, not the spirit. Sometimes the presence of the spirit is so strong that it might feel like it's attacking you, but it's actually just allowing you to really feel it's presence.

I'm not the kind of person that will tell you not to do this, because I think it's silly that so many people like to make an effort to keep others away from so-called demons. I won't say they can't hurt you, or make your life miserable, but if you play your cards right and keep your end of the bargain, you should be ok. Oh, and don't use any God names unless you're in trouble. Calling on them in the name of God is not nice, but if you do use a God name, make sure it's a God or Goddess you have alot of faith in.

Try fasting and abstinence before you do the ritual. I suggest you go 30 days without sex, try a veagan diet for 7 days, and the last 3 days you try to deprive yourself of sleep. You'll get a very good manifestation in the mirror, and spiritually, you'll be much stronger than usual.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Let us know how it goes.

First of all, have you tried to work with him using dreams? Can you astral project or induce lucid dreams? How are your skrying skills? All of these are great methods to try to actively start an open line of communication with Bune. Goetics (some, not all) are nice and easy to work with. But if you are letting yourself get convinced by other people's stories about him, then you'll get that kind of experience, whether it's good or bad. So relax, and try your best to be respectful.

I don't recommend using the consecrated ring of salt around the triangle. Might make his "arrival" very painful since it's supposed to keep spirits like him away, and he might decide that you are insulting him with it. How would you like it if you were invited to have dinner at a stranger's house and were told you had to stay inside an electrified cage during your stay?

I've been working with Orobas lately in a non-evocational way that I hope will be very beneficial. He seems to be nice and patient, although he does want respect which is perfectly understandable. I recommend you try working with him to fix your luck. I hear he's good at picking good lottery numbers. The only thing I can say about him is that if you try my method (burning or giving offerings on the hour of Jupiter), make sure you don't burn any other scents that are not specifically for him. I had really terrible bad luck one day after a friend of mine smoked a cigarrette in my room when I stepped out. I had warned him not to do it, and we both got the backlash the next day.

The circle is only necessary if you are going to evoke him, and especially if you've never done an evocation. Trust me, it'll make you feel more confident in yourself if you have it. Try to use consecrated salt around it to make it strong. Make an effort to make it 9 feet wide also, because that number pertains to Yesod, the astral plane, which is where you will be bringing him. Don't have any preconceived notions about him testing your circle. Most likely he won't if you aren't demanding at the top of your lungs that he show up in the triangle. Besides, if you feel the circle isn't holding up, it's probably your faulty construction of it, not the spirit. Sometimes the presence of the spirit is so strong that it might feel like it's attacking you, but it's actually just allowing you to really feel it's presence.

I'm not the kind of person that will tell you not to do this, because I think it's silly that so many people like to make an effort to keep others away from so-called demons. I won't say they can't hurt you, or make your life miserable, but if you play your cards right and keep your end of the bargain, you should be ok. Oh, and don't use any God names unless you're in trouble. Calling on them in the name of God is not nice, but if you do use a God name, make sure it's a God or Goddess you have alot of faith in.

Try fasting and abstinence before you do the ritual. I suggest you go 30 days without sex, try a veagan diet for 7 days, and the last 3 days you try to deprive yourself of sleep. You'll get a very good manifestation in the mirror, and spiritually, you'll be much stronger than usual.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Let us know how it goes.

Netzgewebe & Altpath,

Thank you for the advice. It will have to be Bune I evoke and not Orobas on this occasion because it will be too late to begin preparations on another entity and I think that Bune will be able to give me what I want. I will do the LBRP, LBRH and middle pillar during the ceremony and then attempt to summon.

Thanks again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That's great, but I still suggest you follow some of my advice. You don't have to switch demons, just try to go for the most important stuff.

I suggest you try the Solar Cross ritual. It's a very good banishing ritual and I feel it's more appropriate to a demon. I'm sure you can find it here on the forums somewhere. If not, I'll post it for you later. Just remember to invoke often, and only banish every once in awhile. Try the LIRP or even the SIRP, daily instead of the banishing versions. Make sure you don't banish more than once a day, eventually you'll banish away your good luck, your job, your friends, etc. Trust me, I know.

How would you say banishing too much banishes your luck and friends etc?
The way ive always thought of a banishing ritual is for it to balance me (and or the space around me whatever...) not just remove the unwanted, but by balancing me, the unwanted goes away (in a sense)

So how do you figure it takes away stuff?

I'm not sure exactly how it works that it banishes everything in your life, but it did happen to me for awhile. When I first got into CM I started the LBRP and BRH just like I was told, and practiced them twice a day, every day without failure for about 6 months. I was somehow convinced that it was absolutely necessary that I never fail at practicing them, and I began to get paranoid about it. Before I realized it though, yes, I had built up a decent aura of protection, but I was also pushing away my friends and good luck, etc.

My theory is that with banishing rituals you build up a powerful repelling aura of energy around you that follows you everywhere you go, and it works to keep you safe from all outside influences, but that includes all the good things you also deserve.

When I stopped and realized what was happening, I stopped those rituals and began to only practice the Solar Cross and the Solar Banishing Wave, on a as-I-need-my-privacy basis. I practice trance meditation to ground myself, and I've never been happier. Since my new practices I've also progressed in leaps and bounds in my magical career and it seems that I am a more likeable person in the spirit world now, and in the physical.

Banishing was really what was holding me back, and I think that is a big secret among high level magicians that we are supposed to figure out for ourselves.

I'm not sure exactly how it works that it banishes everything in your life, but it did happen to me for awhile. When I first got into CM I started the LBRP and BRH just like I was told, and practiced them twice a day, every day without failure for about 6 months. I was somehow convinced that it was absolutely necessary that I never fail at practicing them, and I began to get paranoid about it. Before I realized it though, yes, I had built up a decent aura of protection, but I was also pushing away my friends and good luck, etc.

My theory is that with banishing rituals you build up a powerful repelling aura of energy around you that follows you everywhere you go, and it works to keep you safe from all outside influences, but that includes all the good things you also deserve.

When I stopped and realized what was happening, I stopped those rituals and began to only practice the Solar Cross and the Solar Banishing Wave, on a as-I-need-my-privacy basis. I practice trance meditation to ground myself, and I've never been happier. Since my new practices I've also progressed in leaps and bounds in my magical career and it seems that I am a more likeable person in the spirit world now, and in the physical.

Banishing was really what was holding me back, and I think that is a big secret among high level magicians that we are supposed to figure out for ourselves.

See, no, i dont concur with your opinion. I think that the banishings do build up a protective aura and you may or may not carry it around but it will only repel the negative energies. Even if it were to repel the good ones i think you have the will to decide which to let in.
A banishing such as the LBRP is used to balance you out and make you focus on the ritual to come. It also creates a sacred working area and cleanses the area from energies that will not aid in the performance of the ritual or just any negative energy. It's not only to protect you.
You dont banish everything in your life, i dont see how you could. When you say you got paranoid because u HAD to do it, couldnt that isolate you from your friends, since the ritual had become sort of an obssession?.
I might be wrong, but i dont think that's how it works.
but that's just me
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Well it's not that I spent so much time performing it that I didn't see my friends, that's not it.
Like you said, it's my opinion, and it will remain only my opinion until it happens to somebody else. Then we'll have something to discuss.

Ask any non-Qabalist what they feel about that ritual after performing it a few times, and see what they have to say about it.

I downloaded a couple of mp3's on thelemacoasttocoast.com that I recommend everyone listen to. They're the discussions on the Goetia and the Q&A outtake. In there, the speaker talks about the pro's and con's of working with goetics and he also mentions that it's bad to banish constantly, and that instead we should invoke often. I already knew that before I listened to it, but apparently not many people believe that.

Here's the lecture, and here's the Q&A.

Greetings!
Let's keep the focus of this thread on Bune. We're getting offtopic. Though it would be good to see this discussion brought up under Esoteric Discussion or Ceremonial Magic. Keep a Happy Thought! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Sorry Bym,

I felt that it was relevant to talk about that stuff though because the topic starter is new to working with goetics, and I feel that it's just safer to use non-religous banishings for a newb, etc.

Plus I also felt that the recordings on that site are very good for anyone interested in using these spirits.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif)
I totally agree! You brought up some very valuable things here...though I'd like to see you expand on them in a different thread. No worries! (isn't micromanagement fun?) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Well, I had a great reply typed up a couple days ago to this thread (when it was still unanswered) . . . but although I thought it was posted, appearently it hadn't.
(My damn computers really pissing me off lately . . . DO YOU HEAR THAT COMPUTER!!! YOUR REALLY PISSING ME OFF!! )
(sometimes you just gotta personify them . . . then a good spankings in order)

Any way, there are some good suggestions here Steve . . .

I'd suggest you not put quite so tight of restictions on the means the spirit can exploit. The karms things just difficult . . . remember, anything the spirit does on your behalf is against your karmic account anyway. (if you believe in those kinds of things).
And no, the circle isn't THAT important. Maybe the numeric is symbolic . . . but if you consider the work as being on/from some cabalistic lunar plane, its the work that is there, not your physical circle. Its all good either way, just don't make it a hold-up for you experimentation.

What conjuration are you planning on using?
How is the salt consecrated? . . . maybe use the salt on the circle instead of the triangle (if your worried about that...)

The fear of being harrassed is going to be a problem though. Its the fear that kills'ya (ritual success-wise). Your (assumably) trying to effect a working relationship with the spirit. Even if your not trying to be friends, your still working at an amicable partnership.
If the spirit visits you later, just look at it as a visit from a previous business partner . . . you either accept it as a nice gesture and accept the presence, or you respectfully dismiss the presence as something unneeded at that time.
If you plan for it to be horrible or frightening . . . it probably will be. And the expectation may end up being a "reason" to fail in evoking the spirit in the first place.


(I know bym, you said . . . I just can help myself tho)
Altpath, maybe the experience with the banishing can be summed up thus . . . Welcome to initiation !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by palindroem: Dec 9 2006, 02:52 PM

Well, I had a great reply typed up a couple days ago to this thread (when it was still unanswered) . . . but although I thought it was posted, appearently it hadn't.
(My damn computers really pissing me off lately . . . DO YOU HEAR THAT COMPUTER!!! YOUR REALLY PISSING ME OFF!! )
(sometimes you just gotta personify them . . . then a good spankings in order)

Any way, there are some good suggestions here Steve . . .

I'd suggest you not put quite so tight of restictions on the means the spirit can exploit. The karms things just difficult . . . remember, anything the spirit does on your behalf is against your karmic account anyway. (if you believe in those kinds of things).
And no, the circle isn't THAT important. Maybe the numeric is symbolic . . . but if you consider the work as being on/from some cabalistic lunar plane, its the work that is there, not your physical circle. Its all good either way, just don't make it a hold-up for you experimentation.

What conjuration are you planning on using?
How is the salt consecrated? . . . maybe use the salt on the circle instead of the triangle (if your worried about that...)

The fear of being harrassed is going to be a problem though. Its the fear that kills'ya (ritual success-wise). Your (assumably) trying to effect a working relationship with the spirit. Even if your not trying to be friends, your still working at an amicable partnership.
If the spirit visits you later, just look at it as a visit from a previous business partner . . . you either accept it as a nice gesture and accept the presence, or you respectfully dismiss the presence as something unneeded at that time.
If you plan for it to be horrible or frightening . . . it probably will be. And the expectation may end up being a "reason" to fail in evoking the spirit in the first place.
(I know bym, you said . . . I just can help myself tho)
Altpath, maybe the experience with the banishing can be summed up thus . . . Welcome to initiation !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hi all and thanks for the comments,

Firstly the conjuration will be from a book called " Magic with Demons" by an author called Britomartis which has a good reputation here in England (this book is available from amazon.com )
I must confess to being a little confused now, so please bear with me while I get this straight - ritual preliminaries ( setting up circle, etc) doing the LBRP, LBRH, middle pillar then the conjuration (in that order) - is this alright ?
I have now come to terms with the possible problem of harrassment and fear and am confident that I can keep this under wraps.
My last point for the minute is the restrictions; palindroem my friend, please could you possibly give some suggestions as to how I can loosen the restrictions ?

Regards,

Stevekent

Greetings!
"Too many cooks spoil the broth..."
You were doing so well....now your trying to accomodate advice from others and you are sliding towards indecision.....a sure fire recipe for failure. Look...if you are that uncertain, then put it off until you feel more comfortable. This is why I don't ask before the ritual but rather afterwards to help finetune until the next time. What restrictions? You had the project already set in your mind as to how it was to come down. Believe in yourself! Magic is fairly plastic and it is the Operator that screws up. It's like getting 'buyers remorse' when purchasing a car. Anyhoo...you can do this! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Greetings!
"Too many cooks spoil the broth..."
You were doing so well....now your trying to accomodate advice from others and you are sliding towards indecision.....a sure fire recipe for failure. Look...if you are that uncertain, then put it off until you feel more comfortable. This is why I don't ask before the ritual but rather afterwards to help finetune until the next time. What restrictions? You had the project already set in your mind as to how it was to come down. Believe in yourself! Magic is fairly plastic and it is the Operator that screws up. It's like getting 'buyers remorse' when purchasing a car. Anyhoo...you can do this! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Hi Bym,

Yes you are exactly right and that is the only advice I need. I will continue with my original course of action and carry on with my preparations as intended. I will keep everyone informed as to how the ceremony goes.

stevekent

Bym's right (thanks bym) . . . we all just talk out our heads . . . its not our magick or work, its yours!!
Trust yourself, learn from your past, then trust yourself again.

Let us know how it goes.

Bym's right (thanks bym) . . . we all just talk out our heads . . . its not our magick or work, its yours!!
Trust yourself, learn from your past, then trust yourself again.

Let us know how it goes.

That's great palindroem, I will do that and post it back here. thanks for your advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

yeah I'm sorry too, you'll know what to do and when to do it. Trust yourself, and even if you make a "mistake", don't sweat it, and you should be fine.

Hi all and thanks for the advice - just a quick question - just before the summoning am I supposed to do the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram or the INVOKING ritual of the pentagram ?

Thanks

Depends on what you feel is correct. Some people invoke before the summoning, then banish after. Others believe you should banish before and after. Others mix it up.

I suggest you banish first, then invoke (LIRP is ok, but nothing is better than the bornless ritual), summon, and then banish.The reason I suggest that is because it's very easy to doubt yourself or the ritual before you start, so banishing will help you get rid of those feelings.

Although, I do like invoking much more because it generally does charge me up, and relaxes me, but in a different way than banishing.

Decide for yourself what's best. You might decide to do it a certain way, and in the heat of the moment, abandon all your plans and do it completely different. It's up to you.

Thanks altpath you've been a great help once again.
Just one other question - in the evocations website on this site, where the LBRH is written by Konstantinos, he's talking about breathing rythmically with a " 4x4 fold" - what is 4x4 fold?

that's just a standard meditative breathing technique. It's easy. You just start breathing inward doing a count of 4. Hold your breath to a count of 4. Exhale to a count of 4. Hold your breath to a count of 4. Then just repeat that over and over for the duration of the evocation. Supposedly you get used to it and you do it automatically, but I've never been able to do it for too long. Just do it until you enter a trance. Then once you feel the spirit is in the area, maintain a steady breathing pattern, doesn't have to be the 4-fold one that is mentioned in the book. Just don't break the trance and you're fine.

Do I have to consecrate all of the tools before I have created the circle, or after I have created it and am actually standng in it ?

Basically I'm ready for this ritual - the only thing that is stoping me now is the order in which to do the ritual - from setting up the triangle on the floor, then the circle- its the order in which I do the stuff - when to perform LBRP etc, when to consecrate all items, etc....
What I intend to do id put my black mirror in the triangle and evoke him that way.

There was just one other thing - the altar I have is just a flat piece of wood that will sit on the flor, is this OK ?

Whereabouts in the itual do I perfrom the LBRP, LBRH and Middle Pillar ? Just getting it into chronological order now.