Question About Sigils.. Options

I've been having good results working with sigils. The degree of success has varied, but all have been successful to some extent. The question I have is, how many sigils do you generally have active at one time? I've been working with about one sigil per week, even though some may take longer than a week to totally manifest. For some reason, it just feels like a week of time will give sufficient "distance" to keep the sigils from feeding off the same energy source, and thus weakening each other. This is just a gut feeling though and I have nothing to back it up. My other line of thought is that, since each sigil is charged separately, it would seem that each is independent and one could create as many as one could find time to charge.

Just interested in everyone's thoughts on this...

To me it's irrelevant. However many I feel I need. The Deep Mind (the term I use) has unlimited scope and scale and I've never found a drain on energies. My thinking on this is we are just trying to put aside the interfering chaos (pun intended) of the conscious mind to allow the subconcious mind (or unconscious) its potential. But my belief is that the subconscious is connected to a deeper mind, the mind of the Universe (connecting all things -- i.e. the Dao (Tao) , the Force (smile) or Chi energy -- whatever your belief system of the moment (Chaos is fluid, right?) -- anyway... the subcioncious mind is limitless in my way of thinking, is not saddled with barriers, laws, rules, arbitraries... it's all about freeing the subconscious to connect to the Deep Mind... whether it stops there, and you're working simply with your own higher self (Crowley would call this the Holy Guardian Angel, I suppose) or with a universal arechetype of an entity doesn't matter. The conscious mind is the only limiter. Once you destroy the sigil, especially if focused with a gnostic lack of focus, and forget it, you can immediately move on to the next Work. There is no drain. Why would there be? The subconscious doesn't have barriers or limits, except those created by the conscious.

Once you destroy the sigil, especially if focused with a gnostic lack of focus, and forget it, you can immediately move on to the next Work. There is no drain. Why would there be? The subconscious doesn't have barriers or limits, except those created by the conscious.

Thanks for taking the time to help me. My concern was about the energy used by charging the sigils. I was thinking that somehow you would need a certain amount of time to recover between each charging, or else the next sigil might not be as powerful.

Also, what do you think about "doubling up" on certain long-term sigils? For example... a generic sigil for good luck in life... would it be beneficial to repeat the sigil every few weeks, or is one enough? Sometimes the desired effect of my sigils is not specific, nor time limited, so it's difficult to tell when the sigil has run it's course.

Also, what do you think about "doubling up" on certain long-term sigils? For example... a generic sigil for good luck in life... would it be beneficial to repeat the sigil every few weeks, or is one enough? Sometimes the desired effect of my sigils is not specific, nor time limited, so it's difficult to tell when the sigil has run it's course.
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Whatever you believe, consciously, may very well implant in the subconscious. There's no reason you can't create a sigil that can fulfill a greater mission, but it seems to me this is really a call for a Servitor. One friend of mine creates talismanic or amulet (depending on purpose) sigils, then keeps them for this reason, but this isn't the same thing as we've been discussing (where it's important to implant and forget the sigil in the subconscious).

Have you worked with Servitors (Tulpas, or whatever you'd like to call them?). Unlike Sigils, you don't attempt to forget them, and they can grow in power, enriching you, assuming you construct them well (instructing them to feed off the energy of the Universe or a particular element), bonded to you, on a specific and tight mission, with a "home" and coding for reabsorpton when the time comes. Tibetans have worked with Tulpas for centuries, and there are many classical cases of physical manifestation, even though they also teach that they "are not real." But, of course, what they mean is that nothing in the physical world is real, but that there is a truth we don't understand until we achieve enlightenment. In other words, Tulpas are as real as we are (or Servitors, to use the Chaos term).

Another way to look at it is this way. I think it was Crowley, maybe it was DuQuette (who is a Crowley devotee) who wrote (I'm paraphrasing here) that symbols are real in the other realms, while we, our physical selves, are symbols in the other realms. In other words, the moment we empower a sigil, it takes on life in the other realm (and in our subconcious) that is quite real.

Whether real (an entity), or illusion (invoking the power of your own mind), they have definite power, and they are only limited by the guidelines you create. You encode them. I tend to encode with specific timelines because I want to know it worked, how well it worked, when it worked, and how I can improve. If it works -- usually it does! -- then I create a newer and better sigil or servitor for my next mission. If I create a wide open mission without a life expectancy, I might find my mission only accomplished after I no longer care. So, there's probably good reason to "time code" even though you certainly don't have to.

Either way, I never feel drained by the Work. I always feel empowered.

Thanks for the insight. You are right... a servitor is probably better suited for long term tasks. I've not worked with servitors yet, but I will read up on it and give it a try. I will also start encoding specific deadlines into my sigil work. I've been leaving them sort of open ended and generic to ensure a greater chance of success... as a way to build confidence in my work. If you've got any experiences with servitors (or advice on creating them) that you'd like to share, I'd like to read about it.

Nice posts Mezu !!

Dynajam, I could only suggest that as you put more energy into your sigils, if you come to a (current) limit on your ability, you'll start becoming aware of it.
As Mezu very clearly answered, the ability of your Deep Mind (I use the same lexicon) to maintain and manifest is, for all intensive purposes, unlimited. But your energetic capabilities can be taxed . . . depending on your methods of charging. Particularly if you approach your work on a "crisis" basis . . . which often develops itself into a loop of greater crisis, greater force of charging . . . producing a greater preceived crisis. It can really become a "crisis choke".
A way to alliviate some of that is to use charging methods that nearly self-regulate . . . I often suggest Spares Neither-Neither. As it not only utilizes energy that you develope anyway, and that would probably be less useful as simple emotional discharge or even worse as detractive fantasy. Plus, the use of the Neither-Neither method has a side-effect of actually taking you out of the "moment" of whatever mundane crisis, which ends up putting you in a better overall psychic position as a magician.


As to the "generic" sigil . . . it actually sounds like you may be coming to the point where you'd be better investing in the creation of a "sacred alphabet". Which in one sense could be thought of a "generic" sigilic constructs. Though, I tend to prefer considering the personal archetypal symbols . . . it can have an arena of effectiveness that a "generic" type sigil would, but with a far wider and deep potential.

Mezu, I'd also be interested in you thoughts/work with sacred alphabets.....

But as Mezu suggested, a servitor can certainly fill the need you seem to be suggesting. There are some good threads here that deal with servitors too

Palindroem, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I can see that I need to do some research. I need to learn more about Spare's techniques. My knowledge is basically limited to what I've been able to learn by searching this forum, Google and reading whatever I can find at Barnes and Noble.. I am planning on paying the membership fees for the library here at Sacred-magick, as it looks like a great source of info. Until then, if you could explain the sacred alphabet in more detail, I would love to learn more...

Thanks again.

This post has been edited by dynajam: Jan 29 2007, 09:37 AM

Good point Zealtor, and thanks.

I spent many months developing my own sacred letters. For me, because I know how my subconscious works, I tend to be very creative initially, but then I try to anchor my archetypes in a system my conscious mind can also identify with. It just makes everything easier, although in reality, the subconscious can speak both your invented language and the language of the universals (archetypes which resonate.) This is why Chaos magick is so incredibly empowering. It allows you to create -- which I would say is the absolute definition of magick (although I certainly accept Crowley's definition of Will -- I think Spare and others (who based their theories on Tibetan and Buddhist "reality is illusion, all is real, nothing is real" philosophy) had it right by overtly promulgating the "creativity" aspect of magick. Crowley was as creative (perhaps more so) than any of us, but Spare went one step further and suggested we must create our own methods (interesting, Buddha said this too-- the historical Buddha). They weren't that far apart. Crowley believed all magick had to be proven through experiment and verification. So did Spare.

Sorry, back to alphabets. Language, words and symbols are the true instruments of formation, creative and magick. The Word, has always been synonymous with creation, long before the Qabalah. A writer, creating a world in an novel, is a magician as much as a magus working with servitors.

Yes, one of the first things I did was create my own sacred alphabet. It has it's own simple beauty and power. Simply expressing my will in these marvelous letters is, in itself, willing it to be. To empower the letters further, I've created a 777-style spread sheet of correspondences that align with my sacred symbols. Each letter I associate, for example, with an aspect of the Universe and the No-Universe (Uncreation... the Fool in the Tarot deck, Ain Soph in the Cabala, etc). Then, one single letter carries with it, to my subconscious mind, which empowers my will, all that that "power" entails. I associate, for example, the Hebrew Letter Beth (house) with THE MAGUS (standard correspondences) in the tarot, and with B in my letter system (which is runic in style, but uniquely designed), and this particular letter is associated with Hayagriva (my own correspondence) which is the Tibetan Wrathful King of the Science of Magic (Mezu). So B, also means all of these things, but it also means me, since this is my name, too. And a hundred other things.

So, creating a sacred alphabet, is far more empowering than anything else you could really do. It's is the ultimate creative exertion, an expression of magick in its truest form, and very powerful -- as are the vibrations they pictorially represent. Writing out your intention, in your own sacred alphabet, is a form of creation, an expression of will, and almost certainly the most powerful form of magick you can create (create being the operative word!).

Stephen Mace define the sacred alphabet such (Stealing the Fire from Heaven):
"Each 'letter' (actually an ideograph) represents a power .... an unconscious structure or a variety of energy that the sorcerer recognizes or wishes to recognize within his deep psyche. The letter acts as a way of designating the nature of this force even while one's rational mind is left in the dark."

In my opinion, the creation of a Alphabet of Desire or Sacred Alphabet (same things), is the beginning of where basic Chaos magick splits into its "High" form. This is where one starts to operate on a level of truely interacting with "spirit" and where the magician can truely evolve himerself into something 'more' then just a manipulator of the pysche. In truth, everyone manipulate the psyche, even the Deep Mind, to cause change in conformity with will / Will. To do magick isn't really that unique of a thing, everyone does is quite often. But when one, in the Chaos paradigm, starts fiddleing with things like Sacred Alphebets (among a short list of other things), this is where they start to really discover the depths of thier personal (and thereby universal) power and tap into a wellspring of "magick" that is fundementally different then simple sorcery's like sigil work . . . or even servitor works .

The creation of a sacred alphebet is a personal and highly subjective process, both in its genesis as well as it application.
Now although the individual glyphs or ideagrams of a SA may on the surface seem like something the comes out of sigil creation, its a drasticlly different beast altogether.
In sigil work, your basically creating an image or glyph that contains subtle informtation, and its used to cram that information past you conscious or psychic censor . . . or in some other way to circumvent the conscious filter. Through periodic chargings the sigil is empowered and given an organic copulant "seed" of generation. Then, after whatever method of censor bypassing, its left to sink into the abyss of the Deep Mind . . . where it can either deliver its information in-whole to the deep, or it can use the ambiotic qualities of the deep to develop into a complete systemic function. Basically, it either communicates something to the Deep Mind/archetype/Tao/Kia, or it creates the necassary form to cause your intended change (either internal or external)
This is a process of moving something from your conscious (although rarefied) nearly blindly into the deep.

The creation of a Sacred Alphabet is the requesting from the Deep Mind a personal and subjective ideograph. In this process, your asking the Deep Mind for a form of power (a distinct glyph) of a certain aspect or power.
So the process of communicating and communing are very different. What one finds is that they are building an "alphebet" for the sorcerers deeper structures, both psychic as well as archetypal. Its very much a similar process to discovering the "true" name of a entity or being given a more specifically useful seal by a spirit. (similar . . . in the extreme).
What one comes away with (can be) a series of glyphs that can be used to call/invoke certain powers . . . or an expedient method of bringing to attention internal spirits for which the magician can address. Instead of sigil-like work, where one manages a state where the "information" can be dropped into a blackbox of the deep.

Sacred Letters can be of any variety. And though the generation of a glyph doesn't have to be a difficult process (though mine have been for the most part), the inherent power in a symbol of one's own psychic structure, and FROM one's Deep Mind, means that its a creation it a particularly sensitive development. Its an invoked dream of real and lasting effect.

Sacred Letters are more then just a message in a bottle. It a special key to youself, and in a sense... it part of ypur True Name. Therefore, its a very powerful string to you psyche. It not something you want others to be able to pluck, because it will exact a tune from you . . .
Keep it to yourself.

Mezu, nice description of your work. Have you found your Letters to be dualistic aspects ? Individually atavistic?

(zelator...? Oh, thats just a forum rating... I think)

This post has been edited by palindroem: Jan 30 2007, 08:58 PM

Mezu, nice description of your work. Have you found your Letters to be dualistic aspects ? Individually atavistic?

(zelator...?

OOPS, sorry palindroem

Oh, thats just a forum rating... I think)
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Definitely dualistic. I'm very drawn to anything in balance (Toa's concept of Yin Yang, Tantric balancing of deity with wrathful deity, self and Yidam, physical self (illusion) and true self (unconcious mind), male/female, etc)

The most difficult aspect of my creative process -- and that's what it is, which in truth is the "secret" to its power IMHO -- is allowing my mind to formulate to its ultimate extension... a way of forcing the conscious mind into "overdrive" another form of gnosis in a way, much like, say, chanting a mantra 108,000 times (an old Tibetan formula for achieving gnosis). The mind overdoses on the calculations -- in my case I'm aligning correspondences for everything from round-the-world deity structures to numerology, numbers, Qabala, etc, then I go NUTS trying to mesh the seeming contradictions of west to east, which forces my subconcious mind into action (sub-action?). Yes, I agree, the sacred letters (in my case runes of a sort) are the most impressive work the conscious mind can achieve, a genuine conduit to the Deep Mind -- unless you're a Lady Harris and you can make your life's work something as magnificent as a Thoth Tarot deck.

P.S. The "going nuts" part is trying to mesh my belief that everything is ultimately universal (with the even more complicated idea that it's all an illusion, but at the same time everything is real) with certain differences in correspondences between west and east. For instance, Fire in the west and air in the north in elemental correspondences in Tibet; I suppose it's because Tibet is ON TOP OF THE WORLD, literally, in altitude. And then, of course, in the Tao, there are five elements attributed to metal, wood, earth, fire, water (no air), but generally wood replaces air and metal replaces spirit -- I love these convuluted efforts to bring it all into a universal pattern.

P.P.S. Sorry dynajam, I guess we've had an great conversation here, but gone off topic? Having fun with this, anyway.

Kale Phe

P.P.S. Sorry dynajam, I guess we've had an great conversation here, but gone off topic? Having fun with this, anyway.

Kale Phe

No reason to apologize at all! .. Thanks to both of you guys for going into such detailed explanations. So, basically, if I artistically invent and design my own sacred alphabet, then use it in my sigil work, it will make them even more powerful?

No reason to apologize at all! .. Thanks to both of you guys for going into such detailed explanations. So, basically, if I artistically invent and design my own sacred alphabet, then use it in my sigil work, it will make them even more powerful?

There's no doubt about that. But the sacred letters have to be developed creatively, meaningfully for you. I have found that anything I create has far more inherent power -- the optics of focus through my subconscious, versus the archetypes of the universal unconscious (which you might invoke if you're using, for example, Futhark Runes), but only if you make it your passion, your art, your mission. I suppose it's like the initiation into the mysteries of many traditions -- except they're YOUR mysteries (which is, ultimately, the Great Work isn't it?) In the Golden Dawn, at one level, you were expected to create and paint your own personal Tarot. In Tibet, at one point in the path, the guru steps aside and insists you evoke a Yidam who then becomes your life teacher (so it's part evoke and part create, because the Yidam is an archetype but the creation of the mandala (required for the invocation) takes months -- etc. Anything you create yourself, inherently, in my opinion, has far more power (even just carving your own rune set or wand, if you use tools). But that's all just my opinion.

Ultimately, your sacred letters become part of you, almost an entity in its own right -- although it's still you, much like a highly encoded servitor.

The sacred letters aren't just for sigils or servitor invoking, they're ultimately an important part of the master Work, a language as complex and important as anything you master in the Art. They help you connect with the subconscious while still "conscious" so to speak. Single runes or letters take own their own personalities and powers. It's all much fun, too.

So, basically, if I artistically invent and design my own sacred alphabet, then use it in my sigil work, it will make them even more powerful?

Now Mezu responded to this wonderfully . . . unfortunately, I think this is getting to a point where its hard to understand an explanation "in print".
Also, there are some of these subjects that, to explain it plainly enough . . . it comes off sounding either ridculously plain or so abstract and esoteric to be unintellegible.


A Sacred Letter or Sacred Alphabet (in the Chaos lexicon) is something quite different then a new alphebet one designs to "replace" thier normal set of letters used to write with. Although those creations can be a wonderful exercise and perhaps come with added power . . . there still just letters.

(I'm going to take this, initially, just discussing a single Sacred Letter . . . for clarity, and because I personally am not at a magickal point that I've created something I'd call a Sacred Alphabet, only a small, but developing, collection of letters)
This is how my magickal concept follows for Sacred Letters . . .
A Secred Letter is an image that describes a specific magickal thing, be it a particular spirit, force, energy . . . Its mostly like a glyph, sigil, symbol,ideogram. But its generation and therefor its overt purpose is very specific. Its the sign or symbol that my Deep Mind gives me to represent that something.
I might have a Sacred Letter for my chakras, or one for my (personified) personal demons, . . . maybe I would have one for particular types of energy (rage, joy, sexual). I could have Letters for particular types of magickal actions; maybe one that provides for projecting Astrally, maybe another for establishing my sacred space.
I could have one for any type of "thing" that I can represent as something having a specific existance of its own. I might even have one for my Holy Gaurdian Angel (whatever that is).

The second most important aspect about Sacred Letters (for my concept/approach) is that they are not generated by the "me" I consider me. They come from a much deeper, more profound, and usually mostly hidden part of me. The God inside.
I cant create Sacred Letters. All I can do is to dig deeply enough to find access to my Deep Mind, and ask it for a particular Letter.
But this is where the WORK starts.
Because now that I've asked, I have to give my Deep Mind a method of answering me . . . a method that I will recognize the answer as such.
For me, I use automatic-drawing and divination. Some others use dreams, some use Astral Projection. But lots use automatic drawing, at least to start with.
Then its a matter of deciphering which parts of the (perhaps many) drawing is that part presenting the Letter. And then, once that part (or similar parts of many auto-doodles) are found, then the refining starts. You take a blip and gently (hopefully) turn it into a shape/form/symbol / . . .Letter.

Its use is another thing altogether. It could be a sigil, but it already has a direct connection to some power in the Deep. It could be a seal, but not all Letters always anchor to something that is easilly (or most usefully) personifiable as a spirit. It could be just a letter and replace one of the letters (or word/phrase) in my normal/native languages alphebet . . . but that would be a horrible feeling waste after all that work in convincing and squeezing it out of my Deep Mind . . . plus, it would feel straight out disrespectful to the virtue and "life" of the Sacred Letter itself. (don't get me wrong, all my letters are bound by the charge I put to them and are forever deeply in my employ . . . but, its a relationship, and that means it has some type/degree of respect from me).

Its more like a magickal tool then a sigil/seal/letter. It could be my Dagger or magickal circle much more likely. And it could be a letter/symbol I write . . . but then I would be adding whatever I wrote it on to the "body" of the Sacred Letter, instead of simply adding the letter to the page.

And, at this point it might be most appropriate to suggest that now may not be your right time to start creating a Sacred Alphabet. As Mezu suggested, and I said earlier . . . this is where one diverges from simple sorcery, and begins developing relationships with much deeper archetypal structures. I assume this is the chaote equivalent to invocation of Gods and evocation of daemons. Its more then just expressing connections with the deep in an artistic or glyphic form . . . its communing and binding and employing those structures. Structures that may be just as deep, just as broad, and just as powerful as any invoked god or summoned daemon.

Ok . . enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

This post has been edited by palindroem: Feb 2 2007, 05:06 PM

Palindroem explained it perfectly. For example, I recently connected with a part of me that I define as "driven to succeed." I began to build symbols around this aspect of my subconscious, because this is a tremendously valuable energy to invoke. To personalize the energy, I name him/her, visualize, eventually even communicate. One valuable "starting point" for me is to use my beloved Thoth Tarot. They are so "dripping" in symbols, there's hardly ever an aspect of the Deep Mind that can't be illustrated to the conscious mind through the symbols on those cards. But it's just a starting point to visualizing for me. So, for example, in the above example, I visualized on a specific court card that carried with it all the basic symbols I intuitively understood about that "entity".

Now, this entity has a "name" which is also its sacred letter. I mentioned earlier my letters also include a letter that represent me, at the least the me of the physical plane. An on it goes. I suspect, but I'm no expert, the Hebrew letters, considered sacred by many, began as symbols representing ideas. Beth, I think for example, means house, but it carries with it centuries of additional meanings and symbols: numerical value 2, in most traditions the Magus tarot card, and so on. They grow, evolve, take on life of their own. Letters are sacred, but sacred scripts are beyond sacred. Chinese Caligraphy, for example, can hardly be called simple letters. The very thing that makes them complex and difficult to learn -- only great scholars truly master them -- have many meanings that even transcend languages (the same characters for Mandarin and Cantonese, for example). But, some letters are considered awesomely powerful. The character for FOUR, carries a sound similar to DEATH, and is considered highly inauspicious, and so on. But at one time, a scholar thousands of years ago, developed this as his sacred letters, a veritable window to his true self.

I work extensively with Servitors. I find that the act of creating a sacred letter and name for the servitor, which really is an aspect or energy of my own subcionscious, is the act of giving birth. One sacred alphabet I created represents all the various Tibetan deities, including wrathful deities, and it has now become a valuable tool in astral visualizing and travel, as well as a very powerful roadmap to the archetypes valuable to my subconscious mind.

Greetings!
Just a small contribution...Research Austin O.Spares work with his 'Alphabet of Desire'...there are some distinct similarities to what you are discussing. Very interesting stuff...gives pause when one also digresses into the new 'ideograms' possible gematria/mathematics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/i_triangle.gif)

n The question I have is, how many sigils do you generally have active at one time?

Greetings,

I have seals on all over the wall of my altar. Over the front and back door. Over the head of my bed and shelf overhead where I sleep. Also in my wallet so that when I flip open my wallet I see them. As well a couple are tattooed on my body.

I see no use in throwing away a seal. When I look at these in my daily life it reminds me to think of the magick which I am trying to work in my physical life.

If a seal gets damaged or too old I burn it as a sacrifice to a spirit that is my servant. To release the energy to him and make him strong.

I do not think that you can have too many.

Peace

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: Feb 3 2007, 05:36 PM

I agree, you can't have too many. This is totally a terminology difference, because I have plenty of "sigils" kicking around to (I use sigils, for example, in my creation of servitors) -- but the classical sigil, the Chaos sigil that works so well in implanting the will to the subconscious, is typically migrated through gnosis to the subconscious, then destroyed and forgotten for effectiveness. So, I think of seals or sigils that you keep as more talismanic or amuletic or servitor repositories. But that's just terminology. Whatever works, works. I often will perform an indepth divination on any use of sigils, talismans, seals, servitors. This way I know "in advance" what the results WILL BE. And I believe it. And that makes it work.