Fate, or destiny, whatever Options

Hey all!

I was just wondering how of you believe in fate, meaning that your lifes course is already written for you?

and if you believe in such a thing, can your fate be changed somehow? can you neglect your fate or our you controlled by forces outside your control?

My personal view (at the moment, it will probably change after this discussion) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif) is that people have certain things they are good at and certain things they are not, but I do not actually believe in fate at this time as don't like the idea of not being in control. I guess whether your LHP or RHP has a lot to do with it.

Discuss (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

i've use the method of 'reality shift' twice now - but i've also found that reality isn't that malleable, but runs in 'layers' or 'strands' and one can change between these 'predestined' strands, but cannot do much about the 'predestination' within each strand

if we do have multi-dimensional souls (across all the bands or strands or whatever you call them) which i am thinking is the case, then the fate of the world may run differently in each strand, but the fate of an individual soul might not, destined the same across all the parallel dimensions

and if you tried to break 'fate' and you succeeded, wouldn't that mean that you were 'fated' to break it?

just my 3 50

e.

Perhaps, its interesting stuff anyhow. Maybe you find out when you die, like when they look over your life and so-forth. I dunno, my head hurts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/004.gif)

Btw nice website!

Fate

I have researched a little on the idea...go google!!!...and when i think of the word "fate" the term is so broad its hard to argue for or against it. Personally? I agree about how an individual's path cannot be changed very much. I never truly believed in fate until i started remembering past lives, and my life in so said "alternate dimensions". i dont quite know how it works...all i know is for me, there have been major forks in the road of life...and i had the privelege to choose where and when and how to go. heres a good question: does the universe just give you space and time until YOU decide to go with it? Is the universe just easing you into the Larger unaltering Fate? Are their several paths that eventually lead to One Destination? The way i see it is the universe is a web, directly leading to the Center. That web can be shaped and reshaped and deconstructed and built back up...but there will always be a center. Ahhhhhh huge spider!!!! oops, got carried away. he he. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The multiverse was recently proven by a Canadian physicist. (Well, more or less -- mathematically, he determined the only reason why gravity was disproportionate in relative strength to energy and matter was that gravity wells were shared across a vast multiverse (very much as imagined by Michael Moorcock)). What's that got to do with fate? Well, quantum physics theorizes (and more or less mathematically can come close to proving) that time is circular. (I'll tie these thoughts together, promise).

So, whether you call it fate, destiny, or circular time (where everything's already happened, except, as with curved space versus warping linearly through space, we can only perceive certain moments of time -- a linear stream.) So, it's not fate, as much as -- well, it already happened. Mind boggling. But, likely, according to leading scientists.

Similarly, what we call the astral and the other planes, sephiroth, etc... well, they are the co-existing multiverse, sharing gravity, energy and matter with our plane -- but interestingly, gravity is shared more intensely than energy which is shared more intensely than matter ... hence, we perceive THIS plane, and only by developing our skills can we perceive much else int he multiverse. In the nearest co-existing plane, energy is relatively more dense than matter, and on, and on until it's all energy and no matter, then all gravity and no energy.... etc...

Which makes magick practitioners very enlightened beings. We're manipulating not only space, the multiverse, but also time.

Just thought I'd muddy the conversation with some science (or, rather, bleeding edge theories that are relatively well founded in fact). So, circular time. Fate. Doesn't matter. It's a reality.

So, astral, other dimension, it's real too. Not doubt about it.

But what about free will? Because we can mostly only perceive in linear fashion, and mostly in the matter-heavy plane, we have, in a sense, free will. Can we change destiny, fate or what's already happened? Certainly. Paradoxes, as theorized in Quantum Physics, are quite possible. Time can change. What's happened can be altered, but it changes EVERYTHING ELSE. Change is Magick. Magick is the act of exerting WILL and change. Haven't we always held "as above, so below" or "what happens in the astral, happens here?" Now there is some support for this beyond our own experiential data. Hence, we're basically changing time and space each and every time we practice Magick.

Oh, I ramble...

Oh, I ramble...

I think time is flat, but goes in all directions.

Space is curved only because it is convenient, and if we did no think about it, space would not be there.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/angel.gif)

I believe that we are all destined to reach a specific goal or destination, but how we go a bout reaching it depends on our own free will. For instance if I go on holiday I can choose if I want to fly, drive, walk, sail etc. My travelling time may vary, yet the outcome of my actions will remain the same.

"I think time is flat, but goes in all directions."

Neato concept. I assume you mean each action creates a new timestream and there are trillions upon trillions of simultaneous timestreams? I believe that could be true, but each of those trillions upon trillions of timestreams would still be circular (that is to say, there's no beginning, no end, the future has already happened -- we're just not aware of it -- and the past will happen again -- not to mention it's all an illusion anyway.)

Fun.

some food for thought (i did not write this paragraph!):


ABSTRACT: Normally, activity is regarded as discernible, but according to relativity theory whatever is discernible lies in the past of the discernible. Only the present subjective immediacy is properly active. Subjectivity is properly understood as present becoming; objectivity as past being (so Whitehead). I propose that we extend the domain of subjective immediacy to include the future as well as the present. This future universal activity is pluralized in the present in terms of the many actualities coming into being. Subjectivity is the individualization of becoming, and so can apply to the future as a whole as well as to particular present subjects. The future as divine grows out of Whitehead's revisions of traditional notions of omnipotence and omniscience. But he separates creativity (best understood in terms of Hindu and Buddhist thought) from the God of Western theism. This separation can be overcome if God is future creativity individualized in its own realm, which is the source of the creativity within each of us.


if you werent confused before... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/banana.gif) was it just me, or did you have problems discerning this? lol.

I love this concept. I had this notion when i was a little younger, but now all i can do is argue against it (seeming as how its so popular, and because its virtually impossible to argue against it, I find that its necessary to take the opposing side...dammit i support democracy!). To highlight the main idea: past is past, and all that is happening is a future being acted out. Note "A future". There are many futures. Now this might fit comfortably with the "circular" jargon except that past in that particular scenario would be set in stone and the "circular" theory destroys any notion of a specific unaltered past. In the circular idea there is a sense of "never mind...it never happened" which is rather an active idea, dont you think? lol My argument is that the past CAN and is Altered. Such that fate in the "linear" sense is nonexistant (at least in my world, lol)

Now what does this have to do with Fate? Well there is mention of universal activity. At one point each individual is 'fated' to meet actively with the future creativity(what i call the source). This is ideal...if you like to be one tiny fragment of the universe. Those who might fight the current (he he) and proclaim their individuality (hurrah!) could take comfort in the fact that they have their own universe at their disposal (the joys of individual consciousness). Whether we are all fated to return to the source, to start back where we began, to construct our own cosmos (with magic, the imagination, or otherwise) or to ignore it all and just live our merry lives...that is where Fate meets Oppurtunity and bends to the will.

so how bout prophecy? I'd be arrogant and rather stupid to discount such power...but how does prophecy play a role in the whole fate thing? anyone? Ideas?

mmm i believe that before we come into this life WE chose our lifes and lessons we have to take but ... i believe that nothing is absolutely certain and that we can achieve some changes. Prophecy is to see a tendecy of the future , it might happen , it might not.
i don't think that magick manipulates universal laws, it's another level of education and a different way to get you through life.

[Greetings'Nightshade,

I agree that prophecy and all forms of divination only tell of the most likely current future. Time is like a large body of water. Right now it may be calm but if you throw a rock in it will splash and make ripples.

If we get a Tarot reading for example and we believe whatever the medium says about the future then the future is set exactly as predicted by our minds. However if we do not like the reading we could refuse to accept it and immediately the future is altered.

There is much to be said for prudential forethought.

I do not believe in fate or pre-destiny. I believe that we all determine our futures by what we do in the present. Realizing this truth we live magick and can manifest the world as we desire it to be.

I do believe in Karma. I believe that certain events in our lives are tests and are a part of our destiny. How we react to these challenges is not determined. It is not what happens but how we react to what happens. People will cross our paths who were meant to cross our paths. It is important what we do with such people and events as the outcome determines our future karma.

If our fates were predetermined there would not be good cause for our existence. Why do we exist? Surely our lives must have purpose. If we can recognize our life's tests and rise to the challenge we can alter not only our future but the future of others in a good way.

Peace!

Ed----you make such good points i have to read back to remember what mine were! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I suppose you are right about existing without a purpose...fate just seems too cruel to be true. But then again ive always been a smidget of an existentialist. And it doesnt bother me because im just too tired to fight the tide (I swallow a lot of water). But i like your idea...it reminds me of "The Secret". Hehe. the law of attraction certainly SOUNDS nice. Plus there is a lot of therapists out there who emphasize changing negative thoughts to positive thoughts, i truly think there is merit in the theory and ive been trying to change my thoughts for years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/doh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)


yo whats kickin nightshade?! I dont know too much about what prophecy is...but would you argue that even though it may or may not happen cuz of future possibilities, its connected to an individual's fate? I mean if i were to cite many famous examples of prophecies...they often pertain to individual people (or i spose white buffalo...but im getting off topic...Ah! ADHD!)

I'd take free-will over fate. Fate assumes that we have no control of our future when in fact we do. Press Alt+F4 I'll let your freewill decide if you want to or not. In my opinion prophecy opens up a lot of pardoxes. etc you see yourself die in a carcrash. You have to option of walking for now on, then the prophecy doesnt come true hence why did you see it in the first place. At best prophecies are shady, vague, and require intepretation, ex fortune cookies, horoscope, tarrot, etc.

Greetings,

Well my 'view' upon fate is this:
'fate' isn't a path you are predestined to be something 'fate' is the Result of your path the ending point... so in this perspective 'fate' is very flexible and can easily be changed as you and your personality change.... it's like jumping out of a plain with a parachute you have paths you may take "either plunge into death OR you may simply pull the parachute cord and safely fall and land on your feet" for which ever YOU CHOOSE is YOUR 'fate'...

well that's my view on fate...

-Myroku-

This post has been edited by Myroku: Mar 26 2007, 09:25 AM

Ive always thought (im an idealist) that sometime before i came into existance i must have made a conscious decision to fling myself out of that plane....? In any case, it the same destination...solid, firm Earth.

hehe, your kind of "choosing" reminds me of a baby sitting tip i acquired a couple years ago; when you want children to do something they dont want to do, just give them the choice between X and Y. X being a nap and Y being a timeout. X being "eat your vegetables" and Y being "early bedtime". The important thing is dont take anything AWAY from them. Positive reinforcement...HaHa i cant get the picture out of my head: Mommy Fate slapping our wrists and sending us to bed early. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)