Pronunciation / Translations, Pronunciation questions and translated texy goes here Options

Okay, this is my system of magical invokation so please don't laugh. When ever I am working with Arch-Angels, or anything for that matter, I use my own system of ancient Hebrew-Chaldean-Sumerian language substitution. (unless otherwise instructed) Most "learned" Hebraists scoff at this method, and the pronunciations of the words, but I have found it most effective especially when dealing with old and corrupt translations found in many of the Grimoires. Recently I have been longing to work with the Necromonicon, so I started looking at some of the invocations. Here is one example;
On page 65 (in my paperback copy) there is The Conjuration Of The Fire God, this is a very loose translation, but instead of GIBIL GASHURU UMUNA YANDURU TUSHTE YESH SHIR ILLANI U MA YALKI!... I came up with, Gabal Ga-sha-war Ya-ma-wan Ya-na-ha Ta-wash Yash Sha-yar Ya-lal-han Wa Ma Yal-qa. Which roughly means: "set a boundary (about me), make a tunnel or connect (to him), make ready to destroy, to shoot arrows. There is singing, (turn it) to wailing (howling). And the locust!??! This still needs much work; it took me about an hour for these few words (not to mention the mental drain). What do you think compared to any translations any of you have come up with?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

footnote: it is possible it seems that, YESH SHIR ILLANU U MA YALKI! could also maybe have something to do with "bring wailing and lamentation to his princes and king" since in the ancient languages there was generally no punctuation, so one word could have been mistakenly seperated into many words.

This post has been edited by ominous: Dec 28 2005, 12:52 PM

Okay, this is my system of magical invokation so please don't laugh. When ever I am working with Arch-Angels, or anything for that matter, I use my own system of ancient Hebrew-Chaldean-Sumerian language substitution. (unless otherwise instructed) Most "learned" Hebraists scoff at this method, and the pronunciations of the words, but I have found it most effective especially when dealing with old and corrupt translations found in many of the Grimoires. Recently I have been longing to work with the Necromonicon, so I started looking at some of the invocations. Here is one example;
On page 65 (in my paperback copy) there is The Conjuration Of The Fire God, this is a very loose translation, but instead of GIBIL GASHURU UMUNA YANDURU TUSHTE YESH SHIR ILLANI U MA YALKI!... I came up with, Gabal Ga-sha-war Ya-ma-wan Ya-na-ha Ta-wash Yash Sha-yar Ya-lal-han Wa Ma Yal-qa. Which roughly means: "set a boundary (about me), make a tunnel or connect (to him), make ready to destroy, to shoot arrows. There is singing, (turn it) to wailing (howling). And the locust!??! This still needs much work; it took me about an hour for these few words (not to mention the mental drain). What do you think compared to any translations any of you have come up with?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

footnote: it is possible it seems that, YESH SHIR ILLANU U MA YALKI! could also maybe have something to do with "bring wailing and lamentation to his princes and king" since in the ancient languages there was generally no punctuation, so one word could have been mistakenly seperated into many words.

There is much to be said for developing your own words of power and personal language for spell working. Working outside of the guide lines of the Necronomicon can be very dangerous although I must admit I have gone beyond some of these limitations and I seem to be fine. I would recomend saying the spell first in English if there is an availible translation. Then say the spell in Sumerian. Finally the same spell said in your own wording. It is important that you understand every word of what you are saying.

It takes cojones to work outside the guide lines of the Nec. If you have the cojones to do so then it is a sign that perhaps your will is strong enough to do so. I would however treat it like a mine field and cross these boundarys very careful as to not blow ones legs off!

Hello... While I know this would be a difficult task seeing as to how we're dealing with a dead language has anyone every tried to translate the some of the conjurations in the Necronomicon back into Sumerian? Would you believe there is much power in doing this if only to alter state of mind, or could there be more use in this? What are your opinions?

Greetings,

Yes, i definitely think there would be power in translating them back. I've played with the idea of doing so, but from my experiences translating peoples spiritual/enki given/ names, i'll probably never do it.
Sumerian itself isn't that difficult to learn, it's just that the language is sooooo incomplete as we know it. Even if one were able to find known words that would fit the incantations, i doubt they'd be accurate. And that could lead to some serious mishaps.
Example; In a sumerian dictionary you might find a word that is equated to 'Touch'. But actually, in the document the linguist worked from, the word meant more specifically,
'To Caress your wife's hand'. Welll, yah, it refers to 'touching', but how far would that word go in scope? Could it also mean 'touch' as in 'touch the handle of the bandar blade'?
Maybe. But probably not.
I'd give anything for a resource that would allow such translating, but sadly it seems impossible right now. Maybe someday an archaeologist will uncover an ancient sumerian library full of clay tablets with copies written in semitic or something so that they be understood. God, that would kick ass.

Peace,

I have translated most of the Necronomicon to akkadian (which is different from sumerian). I did this mostly by hand after I ate mushrooms (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Lighten.gif) But seriously I am pretty good at akkadian. Sumerian on the other hand ...

Greetings!

I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to the Necronomicon, but I do know a good resource for the sumerian language. The University of Pennsylvania Museum houses one of the largest collection of cuneform tablets and has been putting together a comprehensive sumerian and akadian dictionary. You can find the e-dictionary here. . This dictionary is extremely dense and seems very complicated but give it some time and I'm sure you will find the depth of information extensive. They even give you the dates of when certain words were used and the number of tablets that have the word so that you can discern the more common uses. Happy translating.

greetings,

Distilliate, sweet. Please share some stuff if possible bro. Akkadian is good language. I think it's one of the most elegant languages of the ancient world.
And Faustopheles, thanks for the link dude. Very cool.

greetings,

Distilliate, sweet. Please share some stuff if possible bro. Akkadian is good language. I think it's one of the most elegant languages of the ancient world.
And Faustopheles, thanks for the link dude. Very cool.

It is far from accruate right now. Translating akkadian to english is one thing, but english to akkadian is a nightmare!

Greetings,

I keep chiming in on your posts because I find the issue of translating between archaic and modern languages fascinating, and indeed very powerful during ritual. I have some experience doing this from English to Egyptian and from English to Biblical Hebrew (my only experience with Akkadian is transcription of astronomical texts into English). You are right Distillate; it is much harder to start with the English.

In my experiences, I found that going word to word is nearly impossible especially when it comes to verb tenses and the complicated grammar. The best way to go is to take the entire sentence and find the core meaning, then write out a similar phrase in the archaic language in the simplest grammatical form … make sure the words of importance (titles, commands, names, etc.) are correct. You will never get it perfect (linguistically or grammatically speaking), but that is not the point as long as you have a clear intention behind the spoken words. The great thing about this is that you have some artistic license when it comes to pronunciation which permits you to vibrate words you wish to accentuate (this ends up sound ridiculously cheesy in English, but very powerful when using archaic language). In the end it is an extremely rewarding experience as you are in a sense meditating upon the incantation as you try to find its core meaning and translate it to the best of your abilities.

One last thing: Have you tried transliterating the text from our English alphabet back to the cuneiform? I did this with once with Egyptian and was very effective when I vibrated certain words and visualized the corresponding hieroglyphs manifesting from the sound. Of course, some of us do this during the LBRP with the Hebrew god names as well.

One last thing: Have you tried transliterating the text from our English alphabet back to the cuneiform? I did this with once with Egyptian and was very effective when I vibrated certain words and visualized the corresponding hieroglyphs manifesting from the sound. Of course, some of us do this during the LBRP with the Hebrew god names as well.

No I have not, and it sounds ridicously hard to do in regards to the sumerian tablets.

In my experiences, I found that going word to word is nearly impossible especially when it comes to verb tenses and the complicated grammar. The best way to go is to take the entire sentence and find the core meaning, then write out a similar phrase in the archaic language in the simplest grammatical form … make sure the words of importance (titles, commands, names, etc.) are correct. You will never get it perfect (linguistically or grammatically speaking), but that is not the point as long as you have a clear intention behind the spoken words. The great thing about this is that you have some artistic license when it comes to pronunciation which permits you to vibrate words you wish to accentuate (this ends up sound ridiculously cheesy in English, but very powerful when using archaic language). In the end it is an extremely rewarding experience as you are in a sense meditating upon the incantation as you try to find its core meaning and translate it to the best of your abilities.

Thanks I will keep that approach in mind in the future!

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 8 2006, 04:04 PM

Greetings,

Here is a site with an extensive chart of the cunieform symbols and their akkadian/sumerian meanings. Unfortunately it doesn't have the english equivalent, but i guess every little bit helps. http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/edition2/signlist.php
Also, Faustopheles, very good info on using sentence structure instead of the individual words. Great thread.
Peace.

Greetings!

I don't know if this has already been brought up somewhere. If so, please ignore/delete this thread.
I'm just concerned with the pronunciation of letter "G" in those sumerian words like "DINGIR".
Has it to be uttered like in the word "Djinn" or like in the word "Give"?
In a few other sumerian expressions thereare two "G", like in the word of power GIGGIMAGANPA. So, do you pronunce it Djidji or GuiGui or Djigui or Guidji? Or worse: Djig-dji? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
A little confused...
Thanks in advance

G is like in Give.Giggimaganpa well the Giggi part would be pronounced Geeg-gee.

Greetings!

I don't know if this has already been brought up somewhere. If so, please ignore/delete this thread.
I'm just concerned with the pronunciation of letter "G" in those sumerian words like "DINGIR".
Has it to be uttered like in the word "Djinn" or like in the word "Give"?
In a few other sumerian expressions thereare two "G", like in the word of power GIGGIMAGANPA. So, do you pronunce it Djidji or GuiGui or Djigui or Guidji? Or worse: Djig-dji? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
A little confused...
Thanks in advance

G as in Gap or Gary.

Geeg-geem-ahg-ahn-pah

Thank you very much Ra Hoor Khuit and Edunpanna.
Hope this will help other Nec experimenters.

Cliff notes.

Here are my notes on the pronunciation of the words in
pg xli - xlii
If anyone here shows interest I will go through the Nec page
by page and give my thoughts

We can not be absolutely sure how Sumerian and Akkadian were spoken; but
many useful guidelines are available to the student, including the
transliterated tablets found all over Mesopotamia. Basically, we can
offer the following principles which should prove of value in reciting
the foreign language instructions :
Vowels
a as in "father" ah Nanna Nahn-nah
e as in "whey" ey hey Enki Eyn-kee
i as in "antique" ee Inanna Ee-nahn-nah
o as in "boat" (but rarely found) 0 Ho Ho Ho Nebo Ney-bo
u as in "zulu" oo Zoo Marduk Mahr-dook <Not Marduck>
Consonants
Most are basically the same as in English. The Sumerians did not have
an alphabet as we know it, but they had developed a syllabary, very
much like the Japanese "Kana" script of today. In phonetic
transliterations, the English spelling sought to approximate the
Sumerian pronunciation. However, there are a few sounds which English
does not possess, and which have been put into phonetic variations.
Important examples below :
as in the German "ach"
CH (same as above)
Q as in "like"
K (same as above)
SH as in "shall"
SS as in, perhaps,"lasso"; a hissing "s" common to Arabic languages
Z as in "lots"; a hard "ts" sound, not quite as in "zoo"

Remember, in the transliterations which follow, every letter must be
pronounced. There are no schwas or silent syllables in Sumerian.
Hence, "KIA" is pronounced "keeya"; "KAIMANU" is pronounced
"ka-ee-mah-nu" or, if spoken rapidly, the two initial vowel sounds
slur into 'kigh' rhyming with "high"
The incantations should be said carefully and slowly at first, to
familiarise oneself with the tongue-twisting phrases. A mistake may
prove fatal to the Work


Table VII [A.C.] Table XXV [S.]
0. . . . ANU (TIAMAT)
Ahn-oo
1. Sphere of the Primum Mobile ENLIL (ABSU)
Eyn-leel
2. Sphere of the Zodiac or Fixed Stars ENKI; LUMASHI (IGIGI)
Eyn-kee
3. Sphere of Saturn ADAR
Ah-dahr
4. Sphere of Jupiter MARDUK
Mahr-dook
5. Sphere of Mars NERGAL
Neyr-gahl
6. Sphere of the Sun UTU
Oot-oo
7. Sphere of Venus INANNA
Een-ahn-nah
8. Sphere of Mercury NEBO
Ney-boh <o as in bow>
9. Sphere of the Moon NANNA
Nahn-nah
10. Sphere of the Elements KIA
kee-ah or keeyah
11. Air ANNA
Ahn-nah
12. Mercury GUDUD
Goo-dood
13. Moon SIN
Seen
14. Venus DLIBAT
Dlee-baht
15. Aries AGRU (XUBUR)
Ahg-roo
16. Taurus KAKKAB U ALAP SHAME (KINGU)
Kahk-kahb 00 ahl-ahp shah-mey
17. Gemini RE'U KINU SHAME U TU'AME RABUTI (VIPER)
Rey-oo Keen-oo shah-mey oo too-ahm-ey rah-boo-tee
18. Cancer SHITTU (SNAKE)
Sheet-too
19. Leo KALBU RABU (LAKHAMU)
kahl-boo rah-boo
20. Virgo SHIRU (WHIRLWIND)
Shee-roo
21. Jupiter UMUNPADDU
Oom-oon-pahd-doo
22. Libra ZIBANITUM (Ravening Dog)
Tzee-bahn-eet-oom
23. Water BADUR
Bahd-oor
24. Scorpio AKRABU (SCORPION-MAN)
Ahk-rah-boo
25. Sagittarius PA-BIL-SAG (HURRICANE)
Pah-beel-sahG
26. Capricorn SUXUR MASH (FISH-MAN)
Soox-oor Mah-sh
27. Mars MASTABARRU
Mahs-tah-bahr-roo
28. Aquarius GULA (HORNED BEAST)
Gool-ah
29. Pisces DILGAN U RIKIS NUNI (WEAPON)
Deel-Gahn
30. Sun SHAMASH
Shah-mah-sh
30. Fire AG
AhG
30. Saturn KAIMANU
Kah-ee-mah-noo
30. (bis) Earth KIA
Kee-ah or Keeyah
30. (bis) Spirit ZI
Tzee or

Edunpanna

Ey-doon-pahn-nah



Pronunciation continued. As there has been some questions in the
group regarding pronunciation I hope this helps.

COMMON SUMERIAN WORDS AND PHRASES IN ENGLISH
Sumerian English
Akhkharu Vampire
Ahk-hk-hah-roo
Alal Destroyer
Ahl-ahl
Alla Xul Evil God
Allah Ahk-ool
Barra! Begone!
Bahr-rah
Dingir Xul Evil God
Deen-Geer
Edin Na Zu! Go to the Desert! (a form of exorcism)
Ey-deen Nah tzoo!
Gelal Incubus Gey-lahl
Gigim xul Evil Spirit
Geeg-eem ahk-ool
Gidim Xul Evil Ghost
Geed-eem Ahk-ool
Idimmu Demon
Eed-eem-moo
Idpa Fever
Eed-pah
Kashshaptu Witch
Kahsh-shahP-too
Lalartu Phantom
Lahl-ahr-too
Lalssu Spectre
Lahl-ssoo
Lilit Succubus
Lee-leet <Lilith the Queen of vampires>
Maskim Xul Evil Fiend (Ambusher, Lier-In-Wait)
Mahs-keem Ahk-ool
Mulla Xul Evil Devil
Mool-lah Ahk-ool
Rabishu (same as Maskim Xul)
Rah-beesh-oo
Telal Wicked Demon (Warrior)
Tey-lahl
Uggae God of Death
OoG-Gah-ey
Uruku Larvae
Oor-ook-koo
Utuk Xul Evil Spirit
Oot-ook Ahk-ool
Zi Dingir Anna Kanpa! Spirit, God of the Sky, Remember!
Tzee den-geer ahn-nah kahn-Pah!
Zi Dingir Kia Kanpa!
Tzee deen-geer kee-ah kahn-pah!


Edunpanna

Ey-doon-pahn-nah

This post has been edited by Edunpanna: May 20 2007, 12:10 PM

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

I've been mispronouncing "xul" for years! I always pronounced it with an aspirated H, as "chul" or "khul" with no A sound at all.

Thanks for the list, Edunpanna. A few questions: is "kh" in the words above pronounced as a hard K, or an aspirated H as in the Hebrew "chai"? Also, how is "th" pronounced in the word "gatha," hard like "then" or soft like "this"?

Thanks in advance.

No one actually knows the exact pronounciation of Sumerian since it is dead for 3800 years.