Vegetarians Options

I think vegeterians are prejudice against plants.

See thats the problem I have with vegans. IMO, they seem to view life as this sacred thing above death. That somehow life and death are not equally a part of the same cycle and that because of that, living creatures deserve more right to live than die esp above plants. Let me explain: Life and death are intertwined and both sustain existance on this planet. Animals and plants are consumed for purpose, they feed the cycle of life and death. Animals (including people) also feed every other animal - including plants!. What really erks my chain is this biocentric attitude that somehow animals are more sacred than plants. Plants are living creatures too. Their existance is as equally important and there is no less evidence indicating plants can feel pain as do animals. I hate hearing people say they eat plants only because animals are feeling beings deserving of the same equallity to life as people. Don't the plants we eat deserve the same existance? See the problem is that life consumes itself. We, being a part of life, consume plants and animals. Like Bears eat fruits and fish. I think to target animals above plants as is flawed, biocentric philosophy.

And no you can't eat me its illegal! But I die in horrible car accident you can have an eye or kidney or liver (never mind you don't that)

Think about this the next time you eat a deffensless bannana over a nice cooked meat loaf.

LOL! Great post man (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-F.F.

F*** it, I'll eat it all.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

F*** it, I'll eat it all.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

As a meat eater one of my greatest curiosities is..what do vegetarians taste like?

As a meat eater one of my greatest curiosities is..what do vegetarians taste like?

Like chinese chicken & broccoli. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/respect.gif)

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

As a meat eater one of my greatest curiosities is..what do vegetarians taste like?

Human Flesh tastes like pork, but a bit less salty and sweeter, though harder to chew...unless dead for a few days or more, then it would be more tender.

i assume that your post is in humor... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

I think one of the things that drives some individuals to be vegans is seeing some of the really aweful conditions that a lot of livestock is raised in, and there's some intrinsic wisdom in that, but the answer isn't to stop eating meat all together.

Vegetables and Animals embody different spectrums of energy. We need both those spectrums to have a balanced existence.

However, being the kind of person who believes that the energetic quality of food is important, I can see how there would be a natural inclination, in some people, to swear off food all together when they see the kind of energy that goes into most livestock before it's slaughtered for consumption.

We do need to take into consideration the energetic quality of the food we eat. if you need to see some hard evidence, eat for one week thoughtlessly, as you may normally do anyway. The following week, take time before every meal to observe your food and drink, and empower it with energy the same way you might empower a magickal tool. Compare your general level of energy and mood both weeks, and you'll notice a positive difference when you take the time to appreciate what you're eating. However, humanity at large doesn't really put much thought into their food. While you could just say "Screw those muggles" that's a kind of self centered thought, and while we look individual on this plane, we're all in this boat together as a collective on another. If we pay more attention to how we raise and prepare our livestock before it goes out, then the energetic quality of everyone's food is better, and we all move forward together.

Vegans and Vegetarians would rather change their own diet in a misguided fashion, rather than actually attend the problem itself, and of course everyone feels better when they convince themselves their supporting a cause.

On the other hand...

I've met a few vegetarians (mind you, not one VEGAN) who cite the law of similarity to justify their stance. By eating only plants, one assumes the qualities of plants - the ability to heal faster, to feed off of sunlight and air alone (although if you're a vegetarian you're still eating something...) and a deeper connection to the earth itself.

I tried the vegetarian thing for about six months one time, and tried to go into it with this attitude, but while I have to admit my mental and spiritual energy was maybe more acute (though not necessarily more abundant or intense) my body suffered. You have to eat a great deal more plant material, even the stuff 'packed' with the same family of proteins that you find in meat, in order to get what you could just get from a steak.

I also heard once that the ability to be vegetarian was largely based on your blood type, but never pursued the matter deeply enough to get any good reference to proof of that...

peace

I think a couple of things in defence of vegetarians, although I really understand and sympathise with what a lot of people say here.

The first is health. In Germany (where I live at the mo), there is a huge scandal going on about huge amounts of rotted meat being found by environmental health officers. This included several *hundred* tonnes of meat over a year old found in one warehouse, destined to go out to various hotels and restaurants. Although of course rotted veregetables can cause bad food poisoning, it doesn´t have quite the same bowl-clenching illness as what is found in rotted meat.

There is also a question of yield. Crowing an acre of tomatoes or wheat gives a much higher food yield than if the same field was used for livestock. With so much starvation, maybe a change in some areas to arable would help this (although I´m the first to admit that the hunger problems are more likely to be caused by corruption and inefficiency).

I´m not a vegetarian, but the suffering that a lot of livestock goes through just to put a burger or sausage on my dinner plate is really something that I personally need to think about more, and really cannot justify.

Thanks

nyechna

My step-brother refuses to eat meat for the sole purpose of how "the animals are treated." Now living in the north, I've seen the conditions many of these animals go through and tell you what, they actually live a better life than most zoo animals!

I think a LOT of vegetarians are turned off by the idea of simply taking a life. They've been so disconnected from the reality of where and what chicken is and comes from that when they find out, it's such a shock. (At least in the vegetarians I've met). I grew up on a farm where my father butchered chickens for supper. My grandfather lived up the road and it was a yearly custom for all the relatives to go out for the yearly deer hunt and get meat for the winter.

I never actually heard of anyone being a vegetarian until I went to visit my husband in the city. There I met so many vegetarians, and many actually were angry at the fact that I ate meat. I asked one girl why she became a vegetarian, she told me because she learned what chicken was and felt her parents lied to her! Then she assumed that I was lying as well, "how can you, a fellow spiritual magician, kill a living animal and then eat it!!" "Well," I answered "I sit in the woods for a few hours and then shoot it..hopefully on a logging road so I don't have to drag it to the car. Then I take it home, skin it, gut it and quarter it and then freeze it. Then I take it out and fry it up and serve it with mashed potatos."

I know my husband was a little shocked by this. He's not a vegetarian, but the closest he's come to a butchered animal was in the super market where you didn't have to do all the dirty work. LOL..then he comes to where I live. One night a friend called and offered us a deer, said he had one too many that season and wanted to know if we'd like one. "SURE!" I exclaimed, free food is always great and you can't pass that up. Well..LOL...my husband was in the office at the time and when he came out he was a bit surprised by the skinned frozen carcass on our kitchen table waiting to be butchered. Afterwards he kinda warmed up to the idea of going out and hunting for your own food in order to feed your family.

I think it's quite spiritual to be able to do that vs. ignore the fact that animals are here to not only help us, but feed us. The medicine man I know talks about how he prays to the ancestors of the animals he kills and thanks the being for sacrificing their life. It's very necessary to eat meat. (why do you think we had appendixes? Even though now we are able to skin the deer and take out the bones it's still there to remind us of our primitive ancestry)

As a meat eater one of my greatest curiosities is..what do vegetarians taste like?

Hmmm... maybe we should open hunting season for vegans? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Human Flesh tastes like pork, but a bit less salty and sweeter, though harder to chew...unless dead for a few days or more, then it would be more tender.

How would you know? Actually no don't tell me I'll just assume you were abducted by a tribe of head hunters in New Guinei, however they spell that.

i assume that your post is in humor...

yes and no. The humorous undertones are meant to imply a degree on non-hostility towards vegeterians. I can respect them because I do think some of the animals we eat are treated poorly and I can respect vegeterians for deffying the establishment (ya know anarchy for ever kinda thing)

But don't tell me its wrong to eat animals. We have to eat something and plants are creatures too.

Now I have worked on a ranch in my younger years. The cattle is branded, de-horned and castrated. Which all serves a purpose but geez you hear one those young bulls yell in pain its worse than any human scream I've ever heard. Although thats about it as far as the torture of ranches. The cows are given huge tracks of land to graze upon and the bulls are in heaven because they get to be studs. Well only the biggest bulls. But the slaughter houses are WOW crazy. But more brutal and messy than inhumane. In reallity I'd like to think the way we process cattle has been seriously improoved since the days of the cattle barons in the 19th century.

I think one of the things that drives some individuals to be vegans is seeing some of the really aweful conditions that a lot of livestock is raised in, and there's some intrinsic wisdom in that, but the answer isn't to stop eating meat all together.

Especially chicken. I've seen some video files off youtube or one those sites that shows how chicken are raised and grown. The way some companies do it really bad.

There is also a question of yield. Crowing an acre of tomatoes or wheat gives a much higher food yield than if the same field was used for livestock. With so much starvation, maybe a change in some areas to arable would help this (although I´m the first to admit that the hunger problems are more likely to be caused by corruption and inefficiency).

I think some of the ranchers I know would dispute this but maybe its just because where I live there are huge tracks of free land for grazing. There are other advantages too. Grazing land doesn't need to be rotated like crops. There is no need for irrigation, at least not to the extent for crops. There are no pesticides or herbicides in cows. But there are also growth hormones in the feed. And these are believed to be affecting kids these days.

If you're a vegan/vegeterian because you're pissed off at major corperations and how animals are treated thats a respectable stance. I personally know that BK gets their cheap meat from south america. There huge amounts of rain forrest are cut down to feed cattle. This is cheap and the cattle raised here are sold cheaply to bk and micky d's. However the rain forrest can't be re-used and takes decades to regain nutriants. Now that makes me angery and I'm fruastrated at how americans seem to be accepting of this. The rain forrest is a valuble reasource we are letting big business scwonder for their profits. KFC gets their chicken from livestock raised in cages that don't even come up to my knees. Fast food industry in general has some humanitarian issues and its not just the way they do business for their food. The way they treat their workers is also horrible. I know some people argue that if fast food made adequet changes to their opperations that prices would go up. My rebutle is Why do they need so much profit? What are they doing with that money that makes them even deserve it?

But the bottom line to my agrument is that if you're vegan because you think animals are like people but plants don't deserve the same treatment you're confussed about the natural order of things. Plants and animals are a food source for all other life forms, including people. While I do think people need to step up and develope more ethical standards to how we treat the planet its not just animals its the environment in general. The amount of waste and pollution, deforrestation, land fills, toxic chemicals being put into the land its all going to hurt us. I just think that those few vegans who are convinced eating animals is cruel and akin to murder need to stop eating all together because those plants are pretty important too.

How would you know? Actually no don't tell me I'll just assume you were abducted by a tribe of head hunters in New Guinei, however they spell that.

Actually one of my uncles was in vietnam and said when a couple of bombs went off a few people were killed in it. Said it smelled exactly like pork. Creepy if you think about it. *shrugs* But, good to know if you ever need to eat someone....um, not that I would recommend it

But the slaughter houses are WOW crazy. But more brutal and messy than inhumane. In reallity I'd like to think the way we process cattle has been seriously improoved since the days of the cattle barons in the 19th century.

I have to agree. To think that something like an inhumane slaughterhouse would actually get by the FDA and be mass marketed is hard to believe. I think a lot of people are put off by the way the animals are slaughtered ( cutting their throats). *shrugs* I have to say though, it's quick, cost effective and a LOT less painful than being run down by a pack of wolves and being eaten while still alive. Many are also weirded out by McDonalds supposed hormone induced chickens to make them grow faster. I've owned chickens and your plain white barnyard chicken can be ready to butcher in about 4 months. I'm honestly under the impression that most of these assumptions are through second handed mish-mashed hear-say. Honestly, the only thing I've ever questioned when going into a fast food place (which I haven't done in years because of it) is when did the guy handling my burger last wash his hands.

I just think that those few vegans who are convinced eating animals is cruel and akin to murder need to stop eating all together because those plants are pretty important too.

I actually read somewhere that a couple of college students were working with frequencies and such (sorry I don't know the technical term) of plants. That the plants actually would match the heart beat of the person taking care of them. In some cases the "frequency" would noticably rise when their care taker would come into the room.

This post has been edited by Angalor: Sep 21 2006, 04:51 PM

It's called the food chain. Get used to it. If we eliminate humans at the top, then the other large animals better watch out because they are next.

Seriously, if others find a path involving less predatory behavior, good for them. I know some vegetarians whose nature changed when they stopped consuming flesh. Good for them.

If others participate in the food chain that continues a cycle of interdependence that has existed since early knuckledraggers beat the bejesus out of some creature with a pointy rock, good for them. The earliest religious shrines found were pyramidal stacks of cave bear skulls. Hunters would pile these trophies as a sign of prowess and respect for the animals they killed and consumed, physically and spiritually. Magically consuming the bear and other animals allowed the hunter to manifest some of the qualities of the prey. Spiritually, the hunt linked the fate of man and animal. Men who absorbed these animal elements carried them with them as they advanced.

On the flip side, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. Cave bears were a popular vehicle for non-animal spirits seeking incarnation because of their obvious physical prowess and their relatively developed brain structure. Cave bears who killed human hunters also absorbed qualities of the hunter, gaining a greater capacity for intelligence and understanding.

This pact between hunter and hunted, animal and man, continues today. Domestication of meat sources has somewhat blunted the spiritual edge formerly associated with ritual absorption, but the process continues. We are just becoming herd animals now.

But unless we are willing to either significantly reduce the human population or have everyone consume a diet composed largely of vegetable matter, we a stuck with this system.

These are just my thoughts on this issue. It is remarkably easier to deal with this issue on a personal basis than on a systemic basis. Systemic solutions would force changes, approved only by some on many. I personally am glad that this is a matter of choice.

This post has been edited by motsie: Sep 21 2006, 06:33 PM

I actually read somewhere that a couple of college students were working with frequencies and such (sorry I don't know the technical term) of plants. That the plants actually would match the heart beat of the person taking care of them. In some cases the "frequency" would noticably rise when their care taker would come into the room.

Actually I'm not sure as to where I read this. Last night while talking with my husband about it, it dawned on me that I might have read it in the celestine prophecies. Course this realization made me go "oh $h!t" But, I thought I'd clarify that. Sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/doh.gif)

But I did do some research:

plant consciousness

The plants respond (this is actually interesting)

"Then at thirteen minutes, fifty-five seconds chart time, the imagery entered my mind of burning the leaf I was testing. I didn't verbalize, I didn't touch the plant, I didn't touch the equipment. The only new thing that could have been a stimulus for the plant was the mental image. Yet the plant went wild. The pen jumped right off the top of the chart."

This is a quote from the interview.

It actually reminds me of a time when my husbands mother was trying to grow a couple of rose bushes. They wouldn't grow and for two years sat as a limp shriveled bush in her garden. Then, she made a comment to her husband "if those rose bushes don't grow this year I'm just going to hack em' out and get rid of them." You know what? Those things grew very quickly and fruitfully.

This post has been edited by Angalor: Sep 22 2006, 01:59 PM

This is very interesting,although i think that eating is for health,I agree with what your saying,this is very informative.

i don't hava a problem with eathing meat for health and sustenance. However, lots of people eat mainly meat to the exclusion of other types of food. Wich is unhealty becouse of the fats and lack of vitamins.

Claiming that plants have live also is not a good really statement. A banana comes from a banana tree, in eating the banana nothing is killed really, its fruit from the tree/plant. Same with tomatos, peas, beans, oranges...
You could say that you killed some vegetables, but still, it seems a strange statement to me, but perhaps a bit true. Even if those vegetables live only half a year anyway.

Second, eating lots of meat is just plain decadent. Its not a spiritual mindset.Tthat kind of behaver stems from lust, hunger, consumption purely for the enjoyment and taste of it.
It is quite unspiritual and quite bad for spiritual development. This is what disturbs me the most, this lack of disipline.

I try to eat meat once or twice a week, i find that eating more or less is bad for my spiritual/magical energy levels. To little meat will weaken my body in the end and drain my spirit, to much meat will make my energy levels to heavy and slow. Plus more than two servings of meat a week is not really that healthy anyway.
So i eat what i need, nothing more.

This i do out of respect of nature, and i thank nature for its gifts. I ask no more of nature than i need, wich is what all of humanity should do.
I also highly respect people that go out hunting for their food.Especially if they don't kill to much and let nothing go to waste. It gives a certain connection to nature, being part of the system during the hunt. Even when hunting for meat, wich i would gladly do, i would not eat more than two pieces of that meat a week. The rest i would keep in the freezer for later. That way i would not take life needlesly.

Second, eating lots of meat is just plain decadent. Its not a spiritual mindset.Tthat kind of behaver stems from lust, hunger, consumption purely for the enjoyment and taste of it.
It is quite unspiritual and quite bad for spiritual development. This is what disturbs me the most, this lack of disipline.

Really? Because I eat meat about every other day, & I'm healthy & don't feel any less spiritual than a vegan qabbalist, for example. I don't see eating alot of meat as a lack of discipline. I've never heard of "Thou shalt not eat a sirloin steak". I'm a weightlifter & like to keep fit & meat is a big part of my eating & exercise routine. Sh**t, I prefer eating meat everyday (Mind you, I'm not excluding any other food, so don't think I'm talking about going on a ham binge) & keeping active & healthy than shoving broccoli down my throat 3 times a day 7 days a week & sitting on my arse. People, eat all the meat you want, hell ,eat all the insects you want, eat all the anything you want (Unless it's illegal, lol). Just keep active & don't overdo it. Capisce?

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

Claiming that plants have live also is not a good really statement. A banana comes from a banana tree, in eating the banana nothing is killed really, its fruit from the tree/plant.

The bannana is a living organism that comes from a bannana tree and has the potential to produce a new bannana tree. In essessenc, we eat the genitals... er "fruit" of these plants. Doesn't mean its not painful to the bannana tree to have its nuts pulled off. I know I would be pretty pissed if someone took advantage of the fact I could fight back and pulled off my nuts to eat them. The point is people are omnivores.

Even if those vegetables live only half a year anyway.

Many types of fish and sea food only live about that long before they are harvested.

Second, eating lots of meat is just plain decadent

Unless you eat like a Roman emperor I think its hard to quantify decadence if what you have to eat is mainly meat. Decadence to me implies over indulgence and thats what people who eat too much chacolate do.

It is quite unspiritual and quite bad for spiritual development. This is what disturbs me the most, this lack of disipline.

So what you're saying is that because I ( a person who eats roughly 50% meat products 50% other foods), who lives in Cowtown USA, where the majority of the food products we have to eat are meat products, am not disciplined or spiritually developed because I eat too much meat? Should I eat hay instead? Its just kinda insulting to me to hear you say I lack discipline and am not as spiritually developed because 50% of what I eat is meat products. I certainlly eat meat more than twice a week and am not ashamed to say so. Know why? Because its whats on the menu man! ;-)

This i do out of respect of nature, and i thank nature for its gifts. I ask no more of nature than i need, wich is what all of humanity should do.

And this is why I said "thank you God" every time I plugged a calf with a branding iron.

Its biocentric to say that animals are more worthy than plants. In case you don't know, Biocentricism is any environmental philosophy that favors the existance of other creatures as equally important to humans. The flaw in biocentrism is that it attempts to quantify intrinsic value of specific creatures (plants and animals) over others for less than logical reasons. In other words it examines the "worthiness" of certain animals to be protected, rather than the ecosystems in which they live.

For example, here in Rocky mountain national park Antelope, Elk and Deer are more "favorable" than wolves, bears and mountain lions. In actually, all of these animals are part of the same ecosystem. They all keep eachother in check. But because of the biocentrism in the park establishment. the deer, and especially elk populations, have sky rocketed; while you won't find any wolves and very few cougers. Granted it makes since to keep potentially preditory animals in check, however, because the Elk populations have grown to such levels these seemingly harmless creatures are more and more often being found on road sides and found in camps and other places where humans are. And male Elks can be just as dangerous as perditory animals.

I believe if we are to truely tackle environmental issues we need to do so with an ecocentric atttitude that doesn't seek intrinsic value of plants or animals at all (including people), but rather the ecosystems in which they live - atmosphere, water, soil, plants, animals (the bottom feeders, top predators and middle creatures) - the environment as a whole and not just the plants/animals that live in them. I believe a balanced ecology looks at these animals and environments and seeks to control growth, mainly human growth, to maintain stability. Because bottom line is, human population will double ever 39 years at our current growth rate. That means we need twice the reasources, food and energy, to sustain a doubling population. Now if only so much soil is naturally farmable (for one we got stop building real estate on it) and its cheaper to raise animals on soil that is not farmable (but can still feed livestock) then I can not accept veganism or vegeterianism as valid philosophies because the end result is wasted reasources to produce more farmable lands for less effecifenct food sources (with the exception of tofu and I hate tofu). Animals are food, plants are food and people are a unique life form with the ability (but no motivation) to balance globale ecology. Particularly with wast emanagement. I think our primary environemental goals as a species is to cotnrol human growth, esp waste and seek ways to produce reasources through technology that doesn't rely so heavily on the consumption of ecosystems.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Sep 25 2006, 04:40 PM

Greetings,

I eat enough meat a week to sink a battleship. If it is from the sacred cow I like it as bloody as possible. I have been eating huge amounts of meat for almost 33 years now and I am in excellent physical condition. I am incredibly strong and quicker than a rattlesnake. I always stay in excellent fighting condition. To the contrary of meat being unhealthy when I go 3 or 4 days without meat I feel myself getting weak. I only remove meat from my diet when I am trying to reach some spiritual goal etc.

As far as meat being bad for spiritual development I really think that is a bunch of baloney. I try to be humble but I am sure its safe to say that spiritually I am a very good person and spiritually I am heading in the right direction. Who says a warrior can not be spiritually developed? I come from the school of thought that both the spirit and body need to be trained towards the best possible condition.

At the risk of pissing of Peta and animal rights members etc by saying this on the forum. I love to hunt. Why eat something if you do not have the gonads to kill it yourself? I love venison <deer> wild turkey, quail, squirrel, racoon, rabbit, duck. I never kill anything that I will not eat. With the exception of humans. <Humans smell bad when cooking and taste horrible!> Yeah yeah I know I am an evil mofo because I killed Bambi's mama and all that stuff. Whatever!

For me hunting is a spiritual experience. Lets also try to keep in mind that there is no such thing as a Shaman who does not hunt. Where do you think all those animal parts such as hides, hoofs,teeth and bones and horns come from? So if a Shaman hunts and eats meat as a part of his spiritual practice can you honestly tell me that all Shamans are not spiritually advanced because they eat meat?

One of my favorite people is the Dali Lama. I saw him here in NYC in central park. So many people had come to Central Park to see him that the Police blocked off the park and would not let anyone in because of overcrowding. So I jumped a wall and snuck in to see this true Holy Man.
Did you know that the Dali Lama eats meat? All Tibetian Buddhist eat meat. Does this mean that the Dali Lama is not spiritually advanced? Does that make me and everyone else who came to the Park to see this Holy meat eater idiots?

The Dali Lama says if you kill one animal you can feed many people. But just to make one bowl of rice thousands of insects must die due to the pesticides used to spray the crop. The Dali Lama does not hunt. However when he was a boy he did catch and kill a fish.

Excuse me I gotta put a steak on the grill. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/gun2.gif)

Peace!

This post has been edited by smasher666: Sep 25 2006, 07:18 PM

At the risk of pissing of Peta and animal rights members etc by saying this on the forum. I love to hunt.

They're just afaid you'll be hunting them next. So they join the piss and moan club to protect their own hides. Peta members I am just giving flack, its not personal.

I love venison <deer> wild turkey, quail, squirrel, racoon, rabbit, duck. I never kill anything that I will not eat. With the exception of humans. <Humans smell bad when cooking and taste horrible!> Yeah yeah I know I am an evil mofo because I killed Bambi's mama and all that stuff. Whatever!

squirrel? Raccon? Well I guess they can't taste worse than rabbit. Humans?!???.... personally I fear needles so I try to keep the human hide down to a minimum... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I am of course joking about the humans. Rabbit is excellent. Squirrel is too if you can get over the fact it is related to a rat. Raccoons taste kinda like cat. I am sure you have eaten cat at your local Chinese food place before. LOL. I got meat at one in NYC that smelled like dog. I did not enjoy that meal. Alligator is a delicacy but in my opinion not as good as rattlesnake. With me as long as it is not an endangered species and it does not spead disease like armadildo <armadila lol> then God must have put it here to either eat or be eaten. I prefer to be on the digestive side of that arguement.

Can you tell that I was born in the middle of a swamp?

Peace!

They're just afaid you'll be hunting them next. So they join the piss and moan club to protect their own hides. Peta members I am just giving flack, its not personal.

Peta= People Eating Tasty Animals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bunnyjump.gif) ..LOL..sorry, it was a bumper sticker I saw and I thought of it ever since.

Actually, bear is quite good. I had tenderloin that I cooked like beef wellington with sauteed mushrooms. THAT was good. Haven't had racoon at all though, something about eating something that's been eating out of my garbage kinda turns me off.

Greetings Angalor,

Bear is the sacred totem animal of the Papgo / Pima tribe through which I recieved my Shamanic teachings. So out of respect I have never hunted or eaten Bear. They are wonderful creatures.

Peace!

All those meats are pretty exotic for me. I live on the great plains just out of the foothills on the rockies and there isn't a whole lot of meat other than beef. There's a gator farm just out side of Alamosa but I'm some 400 miles north from there. Rabbit & prarie dogs (we have lots of those) weren't that bad as far as taste it was just really tough. But that might have been the chef's fault. Elk, antelope, and deer all taste the same to me. But they're all pretty good. We have raccons but I've never considered hunting and eating one, or skunks for that matter. I like buffalo meat better than beef (especially jerky) and buffalo patties are really good alternatives for beef. Duck isn't a personal favorite of mine. Has kind of a chickeny/fish taste that doesn't sit well with me. About the only bird I really like is chicken. Fish I can't even recall how many different types of fish I've cought and eaten. Can't say I ever ate snake, of any kind. If I ate cat it was a mistake (chinese food or no the menu still usually tells you what it is!). Sheep/goat meat isn't all bad. Makes for some good stew.

However as a child I ate bugs too. Grasshopers, spiders... fire ants... yeah it was about then I learned some bugs are not good to eat!

This post has been edited by Acid09: Sep 27 2006, 02:06 PM

Greetings,


The Dali Lama says if you kill one animal you can feed many people. But just to make one bowl of rice thousands of insects must die due to the pesticides used to spray the crop. The Dali Lama does not hunt. However when he was a boy he did catch and kill a fish.

That might be true in northern India but not in America. More than 70 percent of the grain and cereals that we grow in this country are fed to farmed animals. It takes up to 16 pounds of grain to produce just one pound of meat. And if you are worried about pesticides you can eat only organic food.

I don't eat meat cause I hate the taste and texture. Although I do Fish from time to time but the Oceans are not as clean as they once were.

I eat a balanced diet of fruits and vegetables,with meat every other day.

Although i like to think of it as if you are trying to survive in a harsh envoirment and need nutrients and see a racoon walk infront of you,by all meens do as you wish.Its a cycle of nature and even plants are carnivors if you think about the decomposed insects in there soil, in wich they get nutrients from.

lol i love the taste of bambis mom,but i realy dig the fruits and vegies also. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

i'm not claiming it is impossible to grow spiritually while eating lots of meat.
I believe one can grow faster when abstaining from meat a little. Because the heavyness of the food.

i never said that someone who eats meat cannot be spiritually developped. I know there are many spiritual meat eaters.
Also i have deep respect for the hunt, nothing wrong with going out into nature searching for sustenance.

Also, meat may have a little nutritional value, its not that great, twice a week should be more than plenty for the proteins you need, given that you eat a little more vegetables and stuff. things change a little when doing heavy physical labor, or when power training. Though meat isn't the onlye source of proteins, it is the easiest source. Beans are a good substitute if one needs lots of protein.

also, when growing your own vegetables, not many insects have to die, since you don't need to spray your own garden if you don't want to.
Second, growing these foods can be a spiritual proces on its own. bringing deeper connection to nature.

Also, bananas drop to the ground anyway. even if you do not pick them. They are designed to come of the tree with a little wind or something when they are ripe. I think it is highly questionable that the tree feels pain from it. A mans balls are not designed to come of, hence the great pain if they are pulled of. I don't really see how that compares to picking bananas. If your balls resemble bananas, i suggest you seek medical assistance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think it is even more questionable that any plant form feels pain. however, it is a fact that animal life does experience pain.
So while you can tell me that it is irrational to place the value of one life form over another, i think you should back that up with some evidence.
unless you can prove to me that a salad feels pain upon harvest, i am not at all convinced.

Though i like the idea of all life being equal, it depicts great spirituality if you actually view life that way. Yet something tells you eat meat because you like the taste of it, and not becouse you care so much about plant life. Clever reasoning, but not so convincing.
Even if they are equal, that does not mean it is alright to eat meat. Since it brings cholesterol, heart attacks, and even more diseases.
I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to know that meat is not that healthy. It has been proven more than once that animal fats are bad for the body in to great amounts.
also, if you claim al life has equal value, then i say that plant life has a higher spiritual vibration than animal life. Thus upon eating it, one can grow faster spiritually.
I even claim that eating meat slows down spiritual growth.

i'm not saying people should abstain from eating meat. I think people should be aware when eating meat, it should be a necesity when that happens.
I eat meat two or three times a week, sometimes not at all. And i am feeling good with that. I feel much better in all aspects since i started that practise. physicly, spiritually and mentally.

however, such is my philosophy and my way of life. It is by no means the only absolute truth. I live by it, and that is my choice, you may succesfully live in another style.
Individuality is what i find great about humanity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

also, when growing your own vegetables, not many insects have to die, since you don't need to spray your own garden if you don't want to.
Second, growing these foods can be a spiritual proces on its own. bringing deeper connection to nature.

I think life and death are equally sacred parts of the same cycle. I'm not personally too conserned with living beyond what the universe demands.

Also, bananas drop to the ground anyway. even if you do not pick them. They are designed to come of the tree with a little wind or something when they are ripe. I think it is highly questionable that the tree feels pain from it. A mans balls are not designed to come of, hence the great pain if they are pulled of. I don't really see how that compares to picking bananas. If your balls resemble bananas, i suggest you seek medical assistance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

bannana's are to a bannana tree as testicles are to a man. Its the reproductive part of the plant. Bad joke. Besides my balls look more like irregularlly large grapes. Actually I might want to get that checked out too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The point is many vegeterians seem to approve of wholesale slaughter of plants as in they seem to think it makes more sense to kill plants than animals when plants and animals are all living creatures deserving the same right to live. Plants respond to damage because they turn brown or yellow and wilt. Maybe they don't have the faculties for sensing pain the way we do. But what is "pain" other than a response to something damaging?

I think it is even more questionable that any plant form feels pain. however, it is a fact that animal life does experience pain.
So while you can tell me that it is irrational to place the value of one life form over another, i think you should back that up with some evidence.
unless you can prove to me that a salad feels pain upon harvest, i am not at all convinced.

Again I think the way plants feel pain can be seen in how they respond to being damaged. Its not the same sensation we go through. They don't even have a nervous system. But no human could even know that plants experience suffering in some way.

Though i like the idea of all life being equal, it depicts great spirituality if you actually view life that way. Yet something tells you eat meat because you like the taste of it, and not becouse you care so much about plant life. Clever reasoning, but not so convincing.
Even if they are equal, that does not mean it is alright to eat meat.

I eat meat because its what I have to eat. I eat plants much for the same reason. Besides you can't tell me that all plants taste good to you. Regardless you seem to miss the point that if plants and animals are both equally living and deserving of life that people should not favor eating one over the other. For any reason. Taste and pain are all pretty silly reasons to not eat something.

Since it brings cholesterol, heart attacks, and even more diseases.
I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to know that meat is not that healthy. It has been proven more than once that animal fats are bad for the body in to great amounts.

My uncle is diabetic because of his weight. SO he goes on a diet. After some time on this diet he began to feel really weak. It turns out that eating meat one or twice a week wasn't giving him, I want to say, some kind of b vitamine. At any rate a nutritionist, an expert, told him he needs to eat one serving of meat a day. - but limmit himself to just that.

also, if you claim al life has equal value, then i say that plant life has a higher spiritual vibration than animal life. Thus upon eating it, one can grow faster spiritually.
I even claim that eating meat slows down spiritual growth.

What does that even mean? Explain this spiritual vibration. Do have any proof of this? Or are you just trying to justify some kind of holier than thou red blooded meat eaters attitude? No offense, thats just what it sounds like.

i'm not saying people should abstain from eating meat. I think people should be aware when eating meat, it should be a necesity when that happens.
I eat meat two or three times a week, sometimes not at all. And i am feeling good with that. I feel much better in all aspects since i started that practise. physicly, spiritually and mentally.

hey man whatever floats your boat. And proteins do carry more energy than fats, sugars or carbs. Proteins are good for people who work out regularly or have some seriously demanding job. And I know meat has cholesterol but if you excersice enough your own heart keeps the plaque from building up. The heart is a pump and sustaining a high heart rate for a period of time (through work/excersice) means your blood pushes the cholesterol out of the places it can build up. I know there are other sources of proteins too.

Its just, to me, if life is the reason plants and animals are both equal, both have the same capacity for life and neither is more deserving to live than the other. Even if plants do happen to have "better" spiritual energy I don't think that justifies a life style that, to me and my simple little mind, seems loped-sided. Favoring the consumption of plants over animals doesn't make sense to me. Its the principles of vegeterianism I question. Not the way food tastes, not spiritual energy, not even how healthy either is. So long as we agree that livinging things deserve to live I can not justify favoring the destruction of plants over animals. Regardless if one eats more of one than the other so long as both are living they both deserve the equal right to live.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Oct 3 2006, 04:52 PM

I don't really see the killing of a living thing being the major problem, I think the toll it takes on the planet is.

"Growing all the crops to feed farmed animals requires massive amounts of water and land—in fact, nearly half of the water and 80 percent of the agricultural land in the United States are used to raise animals for food. Our taste for meat is also taking a toll on our supply of fuel and other nonrenewable resources—about one-third of the raw materials used in America each year is consumed by the farmed animal industry.

Farmed animals produce about 130 times as much excrement as the entire human population of the United States, and since factory farms don't have sewage treatment systems as our cities and towns do, this concentrated slop ends up polluting our water, destroying our topsoil, and contaminating our air. "

I've never eaten meat.... curious to me that that upsets anyone..... guess I should just enjoy it

Though, I do hate people that don't wear all white clothing... .. they alway insist on being something special.. think they are better...
but they're always creeps.... except for those that wear all blue.. now.. that's just a little screwy... but my aura has lots of blue, so i always take it as a compliment..

This post has been edited by ZenMusic: Oct 4 2006, 04:24 PM