Are Adonai (g-d), Allah, And The Christian Father The Same Diety? Or Different Ones?, and also, is Adonai (G-d) "The destroyer"? Options

Ok, this ones been bothering me for a while now. Do you guys that Adonai (G-d), Allah, and the Christian Father (from the trinity) the same deity, or different ones?

I mean, both Judaism and islam would make sense as being drawn from the Covenant G-d made with Abraham, with Judaism being the fulfillment of the covenant G-d made with Isaac, and Islam being the covenant regarding Ishmael. Ishmael is regarded as the patriarch for Arabs, and G-d also says that "Ishmael would be in constant struggle with others" (which could quite possibly describe the current political scene of Islam vs West. and unrest among Arab nations).

But then again I have heard other arguments that Allah is actually from the Arab pagan trinity of the tribe Muhammad belonged to, but also the fact that Allah could be a corruption of "El" (which is one of the names of G-d, borrowed from the Canaanites).

And also, Do you guys believe that Adonai is "The Destroyer"? The fact, from the very beginning, starting with Abraham, his mannerisms seemed to be that of a Destroyer deity. For example, starting with Abraham, he helped destroy Sodom & Gemorah, brought plagues on Egyptians, destroyed Canannites. Then with Moses, he again destroyed the Egyptians. And this pattern keeps repeating itself in the OT, with him causing constantly destroying stuff.

This brings me to the fact whether or not the Christian father is the same G-d. If ones thinks that the trinity represents Creation, Preservation, and Destruction, wouldn't Adonai fit in as the destroyer part of the trinity? Or rather is the Christian trinity completely different.

What are your opinions on this subject matter?


Also I forgot to add that Allah in the Koran also seems to be very preoccupied with destruction, so can they be the same deity, or rather different ones?

and also, do you guys believe could Adonai be a war G-d (given his fascination with war in the OT)?

If I were to say, "They are the same God!" or, "They are different Gods!" what would it matter to their followers?

There are millions of people from all those faiths (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) who agree with either perspective. It isn't so much a matter of who is right as it is a question of how you personally will interact with them.

If you believe all or some of these names of God refer to the same entity, what would it matter to you?

Would it change your approach toward spirituality?
Would it change your attitude toward other people?
Would you feel more or less humble than you do at present?

Whatever use God has for religion, the main effect for us is its influence over our ideas and activities. If you want to find divisive doctrines, it can't possibly be so difficult as to require serious theological inquiry; but if you want to extend the possibility of fellowship to those of other faiths, you don't need to seek justification in religion.

From your forum name, I take it for granted that you are acquainted with the reputation Abraham earned by opening his house to people from all quarters regardless of their beliefs.

If I were to say, "They are the same God!" or, "They are different Gods!" what would it matter to their followers?

There are millions of people from all those faiths (Islam, Christianity, and Judaism) who agree with either perspective. It isn't so much a matter of who is right as it is a question of how you personally will interact with them.

If you believe all or some of these names of God refer to the same entity, what would it matter to you?

Would it change your approach toward spirituality?
Would it change your attitude toward other people?
Would you feel more or less humble than you do at present?

Whatever use God has for religion, the main effect for us is its influence over our ideas and activities. If you want to find divisive doctrines, it can't possibly be so difficult as to require serious theological inquiry; but if you want to extend the possibility of fellowship to those of other faiths, you don't need to seek justification in religion.

From your forum name, I take it for granted that you are acquainted with the reputation Abraham earned by opening his house to people from all quarters regardless of their beliefs.

I agree with you. Ultimately its all about what a person believes, but, I just want to know more about the G-d of Abraham, from a historical perspective. I mean, it's nothing short of a miracle that more than half of the world follows an Abrahamic faith. And who was Abraham? He was just a Mespotamian to whom G-d chose to speak with, and kept every single one of the promises G-d made with him.

There is a distinction made between Adonai (the spoken name of G-d in place of the tetragrammaton) and Elohim, kabbalistically. Adonai is present as the Destroyer or more precisely I think, the tension against creation, whereas Elohim is the Living God, or the Tension against destruction. Without one or the other nothing can take place, so it is said. Hence the end of your average judaic prayer "Baruch atah Adonai Elohim." They say (they being the rabbi) that praying only to Adonai will bring down his wrath, as it were, because he is unapproachable and outside of creation, whereas Elohim is G-d manifest within creation, that part of G-d in touch with mankind, but is the cumulative law of creation, and only when those two, Adonai and Elohim, are invoked together in prayer can miracles take place. Or something to this effect.

Ultimately though, the point is that Adonai is the Yin, and Elohim is the Yang, or Shiva/Shakti, or Electric and Magnetic, etc. They are a duality and Adonai is the Destoryer aspect, while Elohim is the Creator aspect. This is why in genesis only the name Elohim is used, as G-d is in the act of creation.

As to the rest... I like your point about ishmael, I haven't heard that before. But it does make sense. I think that ultimately, logically, all of creation must come from a singularity of some kind - while each culture may revere a particular face of G-d manifested in creation, and for all intents and purposes they may as well be different gods, ultimately there is only one direction, pointed towards the Origin of things, and we're all looking in that direction - just maybe through different deific lenses. Not that the major world religions will ever agree and stop warring with each other because of it. "We all pray to the same G-d; but only our way is the right way to do it."

peace

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, in his book, The Living Torah, writes:

"...the Torah uses two names, Adonay Elohim, usually translated as 'the Lord God.' In the earlier chapters, only the name Elohim (usually translated 'God') was used. According to tradition, Elohim denoted a creation with unmitigated justice, whereas the name Adonay denotes an admixture of mercy." notes on Genesis 2:4

Interestingly, the name YHWH isn't used until Exodus 3:15. Rabbi Kaplan writes in the notes for that verse:

"YHWH. This is the Tetragrammaton which may not be pronounced under any circumstances...If this section is read out loud, this name should be read as 'Lord'...this name denotes God's utter transcendence."

The name means literally, "I was," and "I am," and "I will be." Since Hebrew has no vowels, it is difficult, at times, to tell the tense of a verb. This is one of those (extreme) cases.

Peace,

Neshamah

Edit: Removed the word "also" from the second quote. Added erroneously by me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif)

This post has been edited by Neshamah: Aug 7 2008, 03:04 AM

I think that ultimately, logically, all of creation must come from a singularity of some kind - while each culture may revere a particular face of G-d manifested in creation, and for all intents and purposes they may as well be different gods, ultimately there is only one direction, pointed towards the Origin of things, and we're all looking in that direction - just maybe through different deific lenses. Not that the major world religions will ever agree and stop warring with each other because of it. "We all pray to the same G-d; but only our way is the right way to do it."

Absolutely. The fact that even Hinduism (which is popularly regarded as polytheistic faith) believes that everything came from one G-d (Brahma), cements this fact. Everything, does come from one G-d (whose greatness cannot be described by words, and never can be, and never will).