Is Magick Real..., ... Or Delusion Options

Is the result of magick real or just co incidence? How does one to know whatever is invoked would not have happened anyway? For example work a rite for money and get some, then think of a time you got some without doing magick. Substitute any other wish for the money. Was there a time you experienced it without magick?

This is from someone who studied magick under a claimed adept for years and got some results but am not sure if it is worth continuing or am I deluding myself

Fedback and opinion welcomed.

There are two kinds of magick. Subtle, and Gross - Gross magick produces unmistakable results: evocation, psychic abilities, elemental manipulation. If you will for rain, and it rains, this is gross magick.

Subtle magick is the magick of coincidence, the manipulation of happenstance. It is real, and it is coincidence. There is no such thing as coincidence. Everything that happens, follows a current of causality. The very word coincidence is misleading, as it is only an illusion thereof, created by a limited perspective. If you could see the causal currents that knit all activity in the material world together, then you would no longer be able to believe in coincidence.

Subtle magick, which is the most common form, is performed all the time. I have gotten money with and without magick - but I've never gotten money when I didn't want it. What then is the common thread? The desire. Desire is the common thread behind all change in life. Magick is focusing that desire, lending it energy in an active way, in order to direct the way and timing of the results.

If you must insist on holding to coincidence, then you can simply test the magick itself. Do magick once. See if it works. Do it again, and again, and again. If it works every time, then magick is real.

If you want very real results that you cannot ignore, then practice evocation. Those results are Gross magick, and will be far easier to believe in. Magick should not require faith. Faith is placed in something that isn't proven. Magick can be proven, if it is taken in it's context. Magick isn't about harnessing some universal force that is unique to magick. Rather, magick is an active participation in forces that already are at work in the universe.

This is why there are so many different traditions of magickal practice. If there was only one way, then only that way would work. But, there are many ways, because the working principle is not nearly as complicated (in practice) as the various exercises we do to tap into that principle.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Feb 21 2007, 03:38 PM

There is but one law, and this is that every action (whether magical or physical) has a reaction.

Once you put yourself on the path, you realize that there is no such thing as coincidence. You elevate daily life from profane drudgery to sacred existence. When everything becomes sacred than you realize that myth is reality and reality is myth. The duality of sacred and profane, divine and mundane, magic and science becomes obsolete. All that exists is Unity!

Take this as you will, for in the end we each choose who we are and how we exist. Become your own Universe and other people's beliefs as to whether magic is real or not become irrelevant , all that matters is what you KNOW.

Sapiens Dominabitur Astris !
('The wise shall rule over the Stars')

Great Post Faustopheles

For me, life is magick. Whether you undertake high magick, low magick (all rather irrelevant terms), or just live life with gusto and will -- it's all magick. I have never doubted results. What's the point? To doubt the power of MIND or the power of the Universe is to doubt life in total. Even if you believe all life is an illusory manifestation of your own conscious mind (a somewhat Buddhist belief), it's still magickal -- perhaps more so. Even if you believe it's luck or coincidence -- how is that less magickal?

There are times when results are very tangible. I think it was Crowley who wrote magick always takes the path of least resistance. If that's a sudden urge to turn left instead of right and you avoid an accident, is that coincidence, or subconscious mind connected to a greater mind, or an angel of protection. Does it matter? WIll is will. Labels are irrelevant.

But I guess that wasn't the answer you were going for. Basically, there are times when my magick is extraordinarily and glaringly effective and there can be no doubt. There are times when I believe my will has failed, only to gain results months later (whose fault is that -- mine!) Other times, my will clashes with the greater will or collective will (after all, all beings contain within them conscious or unconscious magick) -- and then I might fail. Other times, the results seem entirely coincidental, but I always assume that the coincidence was manipulated by my subconscious (the greater part of me) -- because it is the subconscious that sees beyond, that is linked to the Deep Mind (or the deities or entities, or whatever you care to call them). Like I said, in this case, my subscious told me to turn left --often a strong urge--instead of right. I listen. Magick is listening, too.

Is there any doubt. How can there be? The mundane is just as magickal as the extraordinary. It's all dictated by your personal perspective. But I never doubt, not for one moment.

There are two kinds of magick. Subtle, and Gross - Gross magick produces unmistakable results: evocation, psychic abilities, elemental manipulation. If you will for rain, and it rains, this is gross magick.

Subtle magick is the magick of coincidence, the manipulation of happenstance. It is real, and it is coincidence. There is no such thing as coincidence. Everything that happens, follows a current of causality. The very word coincidence is misleading, as it is only an illusion thereof, created by a limited perspective. If you could see the causal currents that knit all activity in the material world together, then you would no longer be able to believe in coincidence.

Subtle magick, which is the most common form, is performed all the time. I have gotten money with and without magick - but I've never gotten money when I didn't want it. What then is the common thread? The desire. Desire is the common thread behind all change in life. Magick is focusing that desire, lending it energy in an active way, in order to direct the way and timing of the results.

If you must insist on holding to coincidence, then you can simply test the magick itself. Do magick once. See if it works. Do it again, and again, and again. If it works every time, then magick is real.

If you want very real results that you cannot ignore, then practice evocation. Those results are Gross magick, and will be far easier to believe in. Magick should not require faith. Faith is placed in something that isn't proven. Magick can be proven, if it is taken in it's context. Magick isn't about harnessing some universal force that is unique to magick. Rather, magick is an active participation in forces that already are at work in the universe.

This is why there are so many different traditions of magickal practice. If there was only one way, then only that way would work. But, there are many ways, because the working principle is not nearly as complicated (in practice) as the various exercises we do to tap into that principle.

peace

Thanks for the thought provoking reply never thought of it like that before. I cannot quo
You wrote" If you will for rain, and it rains, this is gross magick."
But if it doesn't rain what is it? Gross magic that failed?
You wrote"If you must insist on holding to coincidence, then you can simply test the magick itself. Do magick once. See if it works. Do it again, and again, and again. If it works every time, then magick is real."
That is the problem sometimes it works for me hence my questioning if its co-incidence
You wrote"Subtle magick, which is the most common form, is performed all the time. I have gotten money with and without magick - but I've never gotten money when I didn't want it. What then is the common thread? The desire."
I am reminded of when I needed money and won £500. And when I needed and worked for money I won £750,
But consider this. I needed a car and wanted a new specific model so I got a pic and put on pc wallpaper and did magic too but still I had to buy a 10 year old car.How come my desire for the new car did not work? I want to change to a newer car
I have to have a think about this as there are some other points I would like to make but must ponder how to present them

Thanks for the thought provoking reply never thought of it like that before. I cannot quo
You wrote" If you will for rain, and it rains, this is gross magick."
But if it doesn't rain what is it? Gross magic that failed?
You wrote"If you must insist on holding to coincidence, then you can simply test the magick itself. Do magick once. See if it works. Do it again, and again, and again. If it works every time, then magick is real."
That is the problem sometimes it works for me hence my questioning if its co-incidence
You wrote"Subtle magick, which is the most common form, is performed all the time. I have gotten money with and without magick - but I've never gotten money when I didn't want it. What then is the common thread? The desire."
I am reminded of when I needed money and won £500. And when I needed and worked for money I won £750,
But consider this. I needed a car and wanted a new specific model so I got a pic and put on pc wallpaper and did magic too but still I had to buy a 10 year old car.How come my desire for the new car did not work? I want to change to a newer car
I have to have a think about this as there are some other points I would like to make but must ponder how to present them

If it doesn't rain for you, then yes, it is failed magick. I do weather magick often, and the best way to test it's effectiveness is to keep an eye on the weather, and more than that, learn how weather works. Ever wonder why the weather man is so often wrong?

There are two schools of thought on how to gauge the effectiveness of magick. Some people believe that if it is not effective immediately, in the terms that you set down verbally or symbolically, then it is not effective magick. However, for this to be a reliable measure of magick, one has to be a true adept - they must be fully self-realized, and in total union with the universe. For the rest of us still making our way there, magick follows, as Mezu pointed out, the path of least resistance, unless you have the will to bully through any resistance that's there. That takes an extraordinary will, a very broad and inclusive perspective almost prescient in nature, and an ample supply of power - regardless of how you characterize that power; some draw it from within, some draw it from deities, some draw it from elements, ultimately all power comes from the same source.

The other school of thought agrees that there are more currents in the universe than just your own. In this philosophy, it is easy to understand why magick seems to be coincidence, and why it can take such a long time to get results sometimes. The path that the magick takes must negotiate first everything working against you, and then everything that can enable the results to occur. If you, for instance, live as a recluse, out in the woods, with no connection to the government or society, then how effective will your money magick be? After doing it, there are only so many options - maybe you are suddenly inspired to write a book, maybe you suddenly feel the urge to move back into society, maybe you decide you should start mining for gold around your little hut. I've read that some people suggest that true magick should be miraculous beyond doubt, that gold and jewels should be set at your feet if you demand the spirits to do so for you. There's a lot of myth involved in magical history. Also it's quite possible that many of the writers of those grimoires were simply making stuff up to develope acclaim in the circles they preferred. Few of the authors of those famous books were incredibly successful men, materially speaking.

All of this is why keeping a detailed magickal journal is part of traditional apprenticeship into magick. Because by reflecting on the course of life after we begin our magickal practice, we are able to see the effect that it has on how our life works. By understanding through experience that change, we can grasp the true mechanics of magick. Knowledge is power, and by knowing those mechanics, we learn how best to get what we want through magick.

For instance, I am not a banker, I am not a realtor, or a woodcarver. I am a masseur. I do magick for money regularly. However, I do not simply put out to the universe, "Send me money." That is not specific enough, given that I know my situation in totality. Instead, I do magick to attract clients. I do magick to inspire generosity in the clients that I meet, and I do magick to make my practice effective so that they will return. I live well beneath my means, and keep those causal currents open by not doing anything that would oppose them. I live in accordance with my magick. And that's part of having effective magick. I learned that by reflecting on my life after I began my practice, and over a long period of time, coming to understand that My actions often conflicted with my intentions. You have to recognize where the most effective application of magick is, and use it there. That is what is required to do effective, immediate magick. Knowledge, understanding.

So in regards to your car situation, let me ask you this: What was the nature of your magick? Did you simply do magick "To get this car?" Did you do magick to bring more abundance to your life? Do your actions reflect your will, or do they conflict it? Did you afterwards sit around waiting for a car? If you are not in a position to acquire the car responsibly now, it is likely that you will not get it for many years, when your reality is able to support the presence of that specific variety of car. Don't be surprised if in five years someone offers to sell you this five year old car...

Think about the goal. What factors are involved in it? What specific changes can you affect in your life that will enable you to achieve what you want? Doing magick directly related to the goal is, in my experience and from all I have heard of others' experiences, not the best way to get what you want. What does that goal represent? By saying, "I want such and such this or that," what are you really saying? Are you saying, "I wish I had the money for this car?" or "I want people to respect me by seeing what I drive?" Know thyself is the timeless axiom of magick that has been resonating through the ages since magick was first inspired in man. Or, at least shortly thereafter when someone of reasonable intelligence got their hands on the idea. That is because, when we work in accordance with our true intentions, our true will, and we align our thoughts, our actions, and our knowledge, with that inner truth, nothing obstructs our magick from within. The only obstacles, really, are within. Confusion, doubt, misunderstanding, self-defeating agreements about who we are and what we deserve - these are the true obstacles of magick.

It is important to be creative, and to think outside the box for effective magick. To every situation, every goal, there is a key joint. Every single purpose of magick you can think of, there is a most effective point to apply pressure. It is rarely exactly what you think it is. Brainstorm. Think about all the factors involved, understand not just what you want, but why you want it, and your magick will never fail.

Sounds like a lot of psychological work, doesn't it? That's because it is. Magick is easy to do, but hard to do effectively. I have said many time elsewhere on this forum and others, a magician isn't just someone who does magick, everyone does magick - a magician is a magickal athlete, constantly learning about himself and his craft, and coming closer to understanding that they are one any the same. we don't just do magick, we are magick.

Peace

My suggestions:

1. Don't worry about whether the thing you want is unrealistic. If you can conjure for it, do so! If you want money, seek fortunes! If you want love, look among the princes! Better to aim for miracles and settle for greatness than to aim for mediocrity and get exactly what you wanted.

2. Stick to tangible magical techniques. Visualization and similar intangible techniques can lend a sense of "doing magic" to entirely non-magical things, leading you to assume failure before any real effort has been made. Stick to conjurations and spells where you have verbalizations and other observable components so that you will attribute success or failure to your work correctly. It's easier to say with certainty, "The Hoogie-Moogie Chant does not work," than to say you did not focus well enough or visualize strongly enough.

3. Don't take others' stories of success or failure too seriously. If you hear someone tell you about their very impressive occult stunt, it might be true and it might be lies. Since you'll have very little way of knowing one way or the other, you'll do best to just mind your own business and see what you can cook up yourself.

I believe that all forms of magick whether it be chaos, enochian, voodoo, witchcraft are all based on the same underlying principle. What makes it look ridiculous is all the crazy things people do in rituals like lighting candles, drawing pentagrams, burning incense etc. Im pretty sure in about a hundred years magick will be a recognized branch of science. I believe magick is just a way of manipulating a hidden force of nature just like electronics is a way of manipulating electrons to produce electricity.

You can use different programs to create websites but in the end it doesnt matter whether you used dreamweaver, frontpage, homestead it all boils down to HTML. The HTML used by homestead is no different to that used by dreamweaver. Theyre just different methods of manipulating the same language. In my opinion the best thing you can do is drop the programs and learn the language yourself. Id say if one studies it enough theyll be able to find a refined pure way of manipulating these universal forces without having to go through all this traditional and conventional bullshit.

I doubt you strictly have to have candles burning maybe just having a flame present or visualising the candle will have the same effect. Maybe one just needs to visualise the pentagram rather than paint it onto the floor. It would save you a whole load of hassle not having to clean it up for one thing.

I doubt you strictly have to have candles burning maybe just having a flame present or visualising the candle will have the same effect. Maybe one just needs to visualise the pentagram rather than paint it onto the floor. It would save you a whole load of hassle not having to clean it up for one thing.

I'm afraid I have to agree with imperial's point to stick with some form of external technique. Manipulation of energy is learned most easily through gross physical technique - chanting, correspondence, etc. Visualization is not the same thing, and it's easy to mislead oneself that seeing an image in the mind constitutes having that image's affect present. What the adept does with energy has nothing to do with images in the mind, it is a matter of awareness. Seeing something astrally is, again, different than seeing an image in the mind. Visualization is not so bad for meditation, to focus the mind. Meditation is not, however, magick. Meditation is about exploration and familiarity - you might for instance focus the mind by going through some complex visualization process, and depending on the kind of focus, it might take you someplace, but it is not a magickal action, strictly speaking; which is to say, you will not cast a spell this way.

It's the fault of magickal vocabulary and lack of proper explanation that leads people to believe that visualization is part of magick. Visualization is a distraction from direct awareness, it's substituting mental images for physical sight, that's all. Seeing (with a capital S) and visualizing aren't the same thing. Visualization even uses the same part of the brain as physical sight. The awareness of energy is in a different place. And by energy I mean, inclusively, everything on the spectrum.

Novice to intermediate (and many advanced) practitioners will generally do far more effective magick by using candles, stones, whatever is meaningful to them, outside of themselves. It involves their awareness in the process of magick, and connects them to the energy they are trying to manipulate. After doing hundreds of rituals, the internal mechanisms are a learned action, just like you learn any physical action by doing it repeatedly until you can do it without thinking. Jumping past the ritual aspect is likely to lead to delusion. No one can teach you the internal mechanisms of magick, they have to be experienced to be understood. No explanation will do it justice because it isn't something everyone is familiar with naturally, we gloss over it and there is no universal vocabulary to explain it because of it. Ritual magick is an action which will reliably create those experiences if done with the right frame of mind. Just that frame of mind, however, won't connect you to energy - you need symbols of some form.

That is of course excepting supposed 'prodigies' who figure this natural mechanism out early on. And even they would benefit from beginning with ritual.

peace

Do your actions reflect your will, or do they conflict it? Did you afterwards sit around waiting for a car? If you are not in a position to acquire the car responsibly now, it is likely that you will not get it for many years, when your reality is able to support the presence of that specific variety of car.


Peace

My action conflict as I have medical problem which mean no work is possible for me

" If you are not in a position to acquire the car responsibly now, it is likely that you will not get it for many years, when your reality is able to support the presence of that specific variety of car. "

I would have though magick wouold find a way around the fact i cannot acquire it responsibly and make the reality able to support it. After all it is supposed to be magick and we are dealing with the 'impossible'?

Thanks

Impossible is a fallacious term. Who said magick deals in the impossible? Just because you aren't used to certain phenomenon, doesn't mean they are impossible. Magick is completely natural, and works totally within the bounds of nature.

You have to see the universe energetically, and take out the 'physical reality' that you are used to interpreting all together. Every phenomenon is energetic in nature. So, you have your actions (energy) your intentions (energy) and your will (energy) along with your target (energy). Also, one might include the helpers that may be present, in the form of spirits, deities, etc., (energy).

Arranging everything on the same level perceptually like this helps to develop a less delusional understanding of how and why magick works. Magick does not warp reality and produce a car on your front lawn. At least, not at any level of practice within which you're going to have such material desires. By the time you can produce a miracle like that, you'll be so detached from such things that it will never cross your mind.

Maybe you should focus your magick on healing yourself, acquiring a job, and all of the things that will allow you to support a car. You don't have the energy to manifest a car. Look at it all as energy. Money is a certain type of energy. Take away the physical manifestation, and all you have is an energy that is gathered and channeled in order to acquire other energies in trade. Be they manifested energies or experiences of one variety or another.

If you don't want to believe in magick, then don't. If you do, then take it seriously. There is no such thing as some cure-all panacea to all of your troubles in life. Magick doesn't liberate you from the responsibilities of mortal existence. It's like any other skill. it has to be applied correctly in order to gain any benefit. This is true of every skill out there, so why is it so hard to accept that magick requires the same ingenuity and finesse? An artist who paints has to paint the right emotions, with the right images, and sell to the right audience, to make money. A musician has to say the right words with the right rhythm and the right music in order to make a living off of his skill. An architect must know his strengths and weaknesses, know where to put a building in respect to it's environment, understand lighting and atmosphere in order to be a successful artisan in his craft. Magick requires understanding, finesse, and realistic applications. Wonder why no architect has built a tower to the stars? It's impractical.

Don't get deluded. This is the central danger in magick - delusion. It is he root of every other danger involved in magick, and anyone who says there are no dangers is naive. Miracles do happen, but f every tom dick and harry could just read a few books on magick and *poof* have whatever he wanted regardless of the circumstance surrounding him, then we would live in a very different world.

Magick opens up reality to deeper understanding, it expands your awareness, it allows you to know more about how the world works, and what to do to make it work for you effectively. That is everything from how to cast a spell, to how to commune with the living elements of reality, to how to make effective decisions in life by understanding all of the subtle factors involved. If you only focus on 'getting what you want' from magickal practice, you'll forever be practicing an unfulfilling superficial form of mumbo jumbo that sometimes will work, and sometimes won't - if you don't devote time to experiencing, reflecting, and understanding, that experience, then you'll never know why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't seem to, and without that experiential knowledge, you'll never be able to make it work every single time.

Like Imperial said, you can hear anecdotes and experiences all day long, but in the end, you're still sitting there without your car, and no amount of text on a screen can prove magick's existence or lack thereof. Do the work, devote yourself to experience and reflection, or find another hobby. If every little failure shakes your belief in your own power, then what's the point? Like ANY OTHER path in life, this one will be fraught with many failures if you choose to see life in such black and white terms.

peace

Perhaps it is worth mentioning, too, that belief (I don't use the word faith) does in some measure impact effectiveness. Doubt can trigger a negative connection to the subconscious. I don't doubt, and -- short of a greater influence than my will -- I know it will happen. If I doubted, my subconscious may or may not trigger action/reaction. Ritual means nothing unless empowered by will. Sigils and amulets and talismans have no inherent power without will. Your will. Servitors ARE your will. So, with doubt, your will crumbles.

Thanks everyone for the replies and opinions

This post has been edited by magickmary: Feb 27 2007, 03:28 PM

Regardless if one is working with direct or subtle magick the purpose is still to cause some sort of change or disruption - some kind of affect. Magick in my mind, is simply the arcane art of creating and controling changes or disruptions in one's life. It is arcane because it is understood by few and often entails feats that modern science down play as hog wash. It is an art in that it is a craft, a skill that requires practice and creativity that in order to work properly, the practitioner must have control over their actions. The more aware one is of their environment, the more influence they can control it through their craft. We can name dozens of different forms of magickal practices, crafts, that work on different levels. However the end purpose is still the same to cause a desired affect - some sort of change or disruption. A magickal change seeks to build from the old to make it anew where as a magickal disruption attempts to destroy the old so that something totally new can grow or be put in its place.

There is a book written by Dr. Michael DeMaria called,"Ever Flowing On".

He is very profound, and the truthes he brings forth are wise, and yet
so simple. Here is an excerpt from his book that talks about photons.
You say what does this have to do with magick? EVERYTHING!!!
Where does "natural" end, and where does "magick" begin.
Are they realy so different? Could it be that magick IS natural AND
a part of the natural world? I think so. We have so many preconceived
taboos to wade through from the things we were taught as children.
With the exception of the few whose parents raised them surrounded
by magick, the rest of us battle the rhetoric ingrained in our psyche.
For the most part, man fears what he doesnt know or understand.

Quote from his book, "ever flowing on"

Photons are mysterious, just like the self. Although they light up everything we see, including the rainbow, no scientist has ever been able to pin them down. With out photons you could not be reading these words, yet where "is" the light? They come out of nowhere and return to nowhere. They can not be stored, measured, weighed. Physicists have tried to pin them down in space and time, yet, it is as if they have no home in either. Light, the manifestation of the dance of photons, has no volume and no mass. Investigators into the nature of the soul said it did not exist because you could not locate it in space or time right after death. A body measured and weighed the same before and after death. Any good scientist knows that you cannot prove something does not exist. So the soul, like a photon of light, can not be located in space and time. It cannot be measured. Yet, it is every bit as real as the photon and also has a similar job of helping us see. Just like the amazing dance of electrochemical activity in the brain, the liminal shifts between a molecule, a thought and an action. Where does one end and the other begin? It is the ever flowing field of being.

Although photons can't be fixed, located, they light up all we see, all we feel, all we touch, they are completely out of reach. It has much to do with contradiction and paradox again. The way the self flows through time and space is much like a photon: there, yet not there, like the darting dancing of a flame; observable, objective, but fiercely out of reach to try to contain it, grab it, get hold of it, make it into some kind of a certain predictable something. To make it into a noun, a thing is to lose it. Yet it's still there and still lights our way.

blessings,

The Wanderer

My action conflict as I have medical problem which mean no work is possible for me

Up until three years ago, I was the same way (I had spent almost ten years on disability. Uncle Sam had officially deemed Yours Truly "Incapable of Functioning Within a Typical Workplace Environment.")

Have you tried contacting the Vocational Rehabiliation office in your area? If you truly wish to work, they might be able to help (Thanks to them, I am now working as a professional chef. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

They deal with medical condtions of every shape, size, and description. I'm sure there's something that they can do for you.




I realize now that a person's only limits are those that they place on themselves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

Is the result of magick real or just co incidence? How does one to know whatever is invoked would not have happened anyway? For example work a rite for money and get some, then think of a time you got some without doing magick. Substitute any other wish for the money. Was there a time you experienced it without magick?

This is from someone who studied magick under a claimed adept for years and got some results but am not sure if it is worth continuing or am I deluding myself

Fedback and opinion welcomed.

you're shutting yourself down. you're killing your faith. you shouldn't say such things. maybe the thing that happened would've happened anyway, but maybe it was your will. i have plenty of results. i know im only 17 but i've been studying magick very deeply since i was 13. maybe younger. only four years, but four years of strong devotion. i hardly talk to people, because i think about how the universe works constantly. and how can one delude themselves? everyone is experiencing their own universe. the way you see a tree and the way i see a tree makes us see entirely different aspects. they are different.we both stand on either side of jim, you see his left, i see his right, we both know him differently but we agree that the traits are compatible. the person exists differently to you than me tho. magick is the same way. some people see it as coincidence, others as falsities, others as the way the universe gives us the reins over our lives. regardless it is what it is. if you believe magick is real then it is and your subconscious wont halt your success. if you doubt you fail. please have faith. i'd hate to see someone step off of the path that we follow...

http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?act...ype=post&id=880 - stephano.pdf

sounds like dark night of the soul (again)
you never know, stephano may help someone, if not you

and how can one delude themselves? everyone is experiencing their own universe. the way you see a tree and the way i see a tree makes us see entirely different aspects.

Yes, but you both see a tree. Delusion would be claiming there is no tree, and then driving your car into it.

and my whacked method is to deny the tree, then intentionally try to repeatedly drive very slowly through it

and my whacked method is to deny the tree, then intentionally try to repeatedly drive very slowly through it

Well, it will work eventually... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)