Ego, What is Ego? Options

This is true about the pacifist time line; my thinking is that a person with an ego that is out of synch is more likely to either take offence at something or be oblivious to the wants and needs of others around them; both sides are likely to lead to trouble at some point, but the person with the balanced sense of self is more likely to see what the real problem is and be able to act neither passively or aggressively, but a way which doesn't make a situation worse in the long term.

Having a punch-up might appear to solve a problem, but underneath the apparent ceasefire there is often a lot other stuff going on and the problem is solved much later usually after a non-aggressive period when both have solved the issues either together or separately. It is not the aggression that settles the problem, the true solution always comes later when both parties come to some place within themselves of having a balanced ego, not feeling inferior so that they feel the other guy has won and so they want revenge of some kind nor feeling superior in that they feel that the aggression won, but appreciating what led to the fight and being more realistic about the situation.

Having said this, very occasionally, a smart turn of equal force is enough to make the other stop and think, but I wouldn't support it as the first choice.

Thats where you are wrong. If you don't punch back, the people that punched in the first place will remember that you don't punch back. result: you will get punched more often.

Alternatively, if you do punch back, they'll get angry and punch you more.

amen to that Radiant Star.

In the end it all depends on the situation itself. its not about being selfish or not, its about calculating and deciding what is the best action at any given moment.
Some times the pacifist and/or unselfish approach might be best, while at other times the same action would be entirely wrong.

A well developed mind is flexible and can handle each situation as it occurs, I believe that is the way of the magician

A well developed mind is flexible and can handle each situation as it occurs, I believe that is the way of the magician

Now I am impressed A_Smoking_fox (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wandwizard.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A well developed mind is flexible and can handle each situation as it occurs, I believe that is the way of the magician

Very nicely put, sacred-magick should have a random quote thingy somewhere and this should be in it.

I've always believed that adaption is the way through everything, if you can adapt you always have the utter most number of options available for your path.

Fred och god växt.

Radiant Star and Animus, you both honor me with such kind remarks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I've always believed that adaption is the way through everything, if you can adapt you always have the utter most number of options available for your path.

True, adapting to every situation is the way. But that does not mean that you yourself have to adapt every time.
It rather means that your mind adapts to the situation. Your mind adapts, sees the best solution for the issue at hand and handles it with surgical precision.

knowing that your mind can solve each problem as it occurs, there is no more need to worry in advance about problems. You handle each event as it occurs.
That way it is futile to think about events before they happen, because the events do not exist yet. It is even more pointless to think about events after they have occurred , since they have passed and do not exist anymore.

The normal mind is full of mental noise and junk, unfocused like a small candle, shining little light on everything, leaving everything with little light.
The silent mind is dark, without light.
When an event occurs, the light emerges in the dark silence like a focused beam, illuminating the task at hand with such intensity that every aspect of it is clearly visible.
When the event passes the mind becomes silent again and calm. Undisturbed.

The ego has no way to exist in such a mind, it cannot cloud or darken such a focused beam, it is forgotten in the darkness beyond the light.

That is a mode of thinking i picked up from studying taoism, wonderful texts, wonderful philosophy.

I perceive the ego as the 'machine consciousness' the seperate ego of the physical body ... different to the higher immortal consciousness which is what we are before incarnations .... (this has come off the top of my head ... trying to put into words that which I am seeing and feeling) ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigthink.gif) I'm tired and I'm not thinking straight so I will come back later!

Do what thou wilt can also be abused. Literally it could mean Do whatever you want! Ego is definately complicated thing aye! Especially when we analyze it too much lol!

To try to put it simply: controlling ego = do what we want while strive to achieve a win/win solution?

Do what thou wilt, is only half of it, shall be the whole of the law, love is the law, love under will is the other half. What Crowley meant by this was to connect with your HGA and only do your TRUE WILL. Beleive me, doing your true will is a far cry from doing everything you want <darn lol>.
Crowley even went so far as to state that any works of magick that are not in line with your true will is a working of black magick!! Pretty intense theory there. I can sort of see his point though, when one works magic before discovering their true will they are just going back and forth since they don't really know what they want. Also, all the inner crap that has yet to be worked out could taint the workings. However if one goes by what Crowley says on the topic, every magician would be doing nothing but middle pillers for their first few years of magic until they hit 25 and could go do the Abramelin operation, meet their HGA and discover their true will LOL.
I have found that it is not wise to try to destroy or get rid of the ego, it is much needed for survival in the day to day world. It might be a good idea if one is to take up the life of a monk and does not need a mundane job etc. For me it has worked best to train my ego. You know rewards when something difficult gets done, and lack of rewards (I'll pass on the whole razorblade punishment bit thanks) when something does not get done. I have found ego only to be a problem when it takes over and one is obsessed by ego desires, instead of using it as a valueable tool. The ego is a strong driving force, and can be used to get an amazing amount done!
I have also found that keeping track of what we do, a watch on our actions and life is a great help, as is daily magical and spiritual practice to keep one in perspective.
Speaking of ego, I have to say, the final week of the Abramelin operation was the scariest week of my life! And beleive me, I have experiences some intense stuff before that!
Athena

And punching someone back is kind of stupid (revenge never really works unless you're thorough).

Thats where you are wrong. If you don't punch back, the people that punched in the first place will remember that you don't punch back. result: you will get punched more often.

Here in my country, in the newspaper was a story.
A postal worker got picked on by his co workers. It was so bad for the man that he stayed home from work. In the end he killed himself because he could not take it anymore.
I would have just responed agresivley at one of my coworkes.
Perhaps you and me are beyond the law of the fittest and strongest and can simply get along, however 95% of society still runs on that ancient law, and they all bow down to it.

In the postal worker case, I would verbally stand up for myself and tell them to stop. This has worked quite well for me, folks call me a bitch or intimidating, but oh well LOL. Of course I might hex the ringleader of the harassment at work as well. This is what works for me. There is also the more peaceful approach of ignoring it, this also works for many people. Kicking the coworkers would also work for some people (yet get them fired) I think that the guy who killed himself was not taking the approach that worked for him in particular. I figure one should take tha approach that they are the happiest with all in all. It is when we don't follow our natural inclination that we are miserable.
My 25 cents (IMG:style_emoticons/default/gathering.gif)

Athena

To all who have posted here...Thanks!
Becoming a Moderator here has really helped to stretch new muscle(s) and to an out-of-shape person this is a good thing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Mental muscles I presume Bym, unless you are practising the punching and kicking aspect of the thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

What I have noticed about aggressive people who want to lash out is that their assumptions about others are often wrong, because a person is enjoying being themselves and feeling confident, it gets mistaken for too much ego. Someone feeling happy with who they are is not the same as them feeling superior to others.

Absolutely! Eh....mental muscles...actually learning to play nice with others...I've been starved for a sense of community for years now and sometimes forget that there are other people with other feelings/opinions! My bark is far worse than my bite! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/starspin.gif)

Sometimes when you are your true self and you know it is what you must do and say what you know you must for the good of the collective soul ... you know your actions are going to upset/offend/motivate into action others .... such is the way of existence ...

Sometimes it may be easier to submit to the brattishness of the seperate self ... and say or act how the other wants you too ... often the seperate self influences the true self to shy away from controversy just for an easy life ....

Say what you say and do what you do when you know it is the true self shining and know that the consequences of your actions are for the good of the other soul ...

Do this only when you know you have another soul's best interests at heart ...

The opening of the third eye ... lets the true self gain a foothold on the seperate self ... and it also opens the door to the heart wrenching and often agonising truth of responsibility of actions ....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

My ego is the negative contrast for my character.

One of my goals is to sustain focus on using character, instead of using ego, for engaging experiences.

I am neither my ego, nor my character.

The way I see it, the ego is a balancer. I see it as running between desire and reality, self and other.

Too little and we cannot function properly, we don’t have enough self worth to do so. Too much and we are too self-important and stop taking other people into consideration.

The most misunderstood part of a person appears to be their ego; others see someone who has an honest view of their own inabilities and real capabilities and presumes they have a poor opinion of themselves. Someone else is self aware and genuinely happy and at ease with themselves and another sees it as egotistical.

When we are at ease with ourselves and comfortable in our own skin, we are less likely to be worrying about someone elses ego, since most of this is purely projection and if we are concerned about how large or small someone elses ego is, then it is usually a sign that we are feeling uncomfortable in ourselves somewhere for reasons that have probably not surfaced yet.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif) Greetings All,

In my understanding there are two different descriptions of Ego. There is the Psychological Description of the Freudian Concept of Ego. Sigmund Freud was the Father of Analytical Psychology. He pioneered the Model of the Dynamic System directed by the Id, the Ego, and the Superego.

The Ego is sometimes described as the "executive" because it directs energies supplied by the Id. The Id is like the blind king whose power is awesome but who must rely on others to carry out orders. The Id can only form mental images of things it desires. The Ego wins power to direct behavior by relating the desires of the Id to external reality. The Id operates on the pleasure principle, the Ego in contrast is guided by the Reality Principle. That is, the Ego delays action until it is practical or appropriate. This is the description of the Ego as given in the College Text called "Introduction to Psychology" Chapter 14, pg. 468.

The second definition I will use comes from a Philosophical explanation of the Ego as set forth in the Philosophy of Johanne Gottlieb Fichte in the Series called "A History of Philosophy" by Frederick Copleston, S.J. Volume VII, pg. 40. It states:
"But what is the Ego which is the foundation of Philosophy? To answer this question we obviously have to go behind the objectifiable self, the Ego as object of introspection or of Empirical Psychology, to the Pure Ego. Fichte once said to his students: 'Gentlemen, think the wall.' He then proceeded: 'Gentlemen , Think him who thought the wall.' Clearly , we could proceed indefinatley in this fashion. 'Gentlemen think him who thought him who thought the wall', and so on. In other words, however hard we try to objectify the self, that is to turn it into an object of consiousness, there always remains an I or Ego which transcends objectification and is itself the condition of all objectifiability and the condition of the unity of consciousness. And it is this Pure or Transcendental Ego which is the First Principle of Philosophy."

In the Psychological respect of the Ego it appears to be realated the External Existence, yet, in the Philosophical sense of the word Ego, it Transcends Objectification. In the first instance, it acts as an "Executive" which directs desires of the Id, yet in the Philosophical sense it is the Condition of all Objectifiability, or the First Principle.

Respectfully,
Helel (Joseph)

Greetings Joseph,

I agree. My understanding of the ID is that it is the primal urge to do something which may be morally unjust. The Ego is that voice which tells you what is right and wrong. The Super Ego is the mental state which is achieved as a combo of the two.

At least this is my butchered version of Freud.

The ego concept has been develloped well beyong freud, though he sort of insighted the new wave of focus on it.

Something that i dont remember reding here (maybe it is here and i missed it, and sorry if i did) is a sure definition of ego. Yeah sure its different for everyone, but a big part of the essence of what psychologists and philosophers and the like are referring to when mentioning the ego, is that:

THE EGO IS THE BASE LEVEL PART OF THE SELF WHICH IS CONSCIOUS OF THE SELF AS AN INDIVIDUAL ENTITY AS SEPERATE FROM EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!

So it is the ego which defines you, and everything else. When you are comparing yourself to something or someone else the ego is involved. Now to be specific, it is not the ego that does the categorising or interpreting when comparing different items; eg if you compare yourself to a squirrel it is not the ego that says "ok the squirrel is furry, but i am smooth", but the ego is what makes judgements. It is the ego that says "it is better to be smooth and be able to make removable furry clothes than it is to just be furry".

Ego and fear are very connected in a necessary fashion. It is not only fear but ego that stop you getting eaten by the lion. If you did not fear the lion you would allow it to eat you. If you could not distinctly seperate yourself from the lion mentally and spiritually then you would allow it to eat you.

Ego is necessary but it can be perceived unhealthily. There is then another level of ego. The first base level judges the perceptions we receive, the next level judges the judgments the other level of ego makes (some say one is the "higher" ego others would say the other is higher - i like to see them both as necesary - or just degrees of the same thing). The first degree of ego may judge some acquaintance of yours to be funnier than you. The second degree may then connect with your emotional aspect and decide that it refuses to accept this judgement, or at least that it is upset by it, which can then create a desire in you to try to perform or be funny to prove to yourself that you are indeed funnier and to in turn destroy the unhappiness that comes from feeling inferior.

This is a very childish manifestation of ego. A healthily developed mind will learn to be aware of its own strengths and weaknesses, in a way that does not restrict growth (ie does not inhibit improvement in the areas of "weakness"), and will be at peace with the knowledge that some people are funnier, some are smarter, some are sexier, and so on; and in situations where the ego deems the self to be "inferior" in some aspect as compared to others, will not be upset by the knowledge, and will in fact not even make the leap from "that person is very funny" to "i am not as funny". The healthily developed mind will simply enjoy the humour of the moment, or participate happily without concern if the participation is entirely successfull or not - in fact learning is most positive and well remembered in these circumstances.

The ego in a way is the "lid" of your third eye. What many teachers mean in instructing us to remove the ego, is in relation to the rest of the world, and all it contains, to discontinue the view of us as seperate. To acknowledge our perceptions of the world around us as having validity and substantiality in the world within us also. And to acknowledge that the perceptions we have of ourselves are also true of the world around us. This is not in a technical sense a true destruction of the ego, but is a harnessing of the ego's purpose for developing what we might call "universal vision". The notion of "reaping what you sew" is very connected to the functioning of the ego. If we pre-judge the world and our experiences, then we are likely to percieve what our ego has already judged (whether or not this is the shared reality of the situation or not - this is what we call paranoia - it is an illness of the ego).

Some argue though that this kind of ego harnessing or manipulation, is not hollistic, and is a delusion. That this does not bear the fruit of true compassion, as we are merely labelling everything as part of "ourself" and so we are not really caring for others, as we are really only caring for the self. I would argue though that from my own experiences it is a lot easier to be cruel to ourselves than it is to other people, so in a way this is a greater if not equal compassion to any formed from a "seperate" reality (go castaneda).

In the end the ego is in my opinion a necessary and vital function of the mind. The ego is the doorway to the spirit and to magick. It takes will, concentration, and imagination to open that door, but the doorway must be cleansed and repaired repeatedly, and as often as necessary. If the door becomes sick or dirty then what we glimpse through it becomes distorted, and our reaction can in fact increase the illness contained in the doorway. We must learn to accept limitation, but to avoid stagnation. The ego is the source not only of all unhappiness but also the doorway to all joy!!!

I just realised that Joseph was hitting the nail quite firmly on the head when he said that the ego is the trancendental "i" - it is the first principle!!!

This post has been edited by extinctionspasm: Nov 26 2006, 06:43 PM

thesis: ego is a natural urge for survival of a group, it has no funtion in solitude, and is not un-installable but is de-selectable, and has nothing to do with pride

note: this is the mental definition, if you will, of the ego, and not about whether it needs to be turned off or not, for "we must define before we can ever understand"; these are just my observations, nothing here is proven, footnoted or even claimed to be lucid; ymmv; comments and additions welcome

1) a dog likes to have its tummy rubbed, why?

a pack of dogs in the woods and one of them has brought back meat - the food provider will lay down and the other dogs give the belly rub

this 'belly rub' concept is a pack instinct and is required for working and living within a pack mentality

a single dog in the woods does not exhibit this behavior

what is your dog saying when it asks for a belly rub?

if you never give your dog a belly rub, will it die?

2) we also have this 'belly rub' desire or instinct for group living - we call it the ego

have you ever seen anybody rub their own full belly after a meal? might as well hang a sign on it

we are not that far away from the animal from which we were made - the instincts which drove that animal are still alive and well within us

half of most folk's life interaction is group (the rest is sleep apparently), and all of the media and 99% of all advertising is 'belly rub' based (except some intellectual and comedy bits here and there), smiling 'this makes me happy, buy it and it will make you happy too, and show a pic of a dog getting the belly rubbed so you unconsciously want yours rubbed too)

the ego can be turned off (or at least ignored) if one knows where to find it - it is a basic unconscious/borderline/conscious survival instinct for group life

you could be a hermit and avoid group contact totally, or you could imagine yourself otherkin or alien or dead or whatever and thus disconnect from the group even while being in the middle of it

once aware of the ego, there is an immediate defense available - society calls it being antisocial, and i'd bet a whole lot of those on here have it - it seems to be a visible testament to placement on the evolutionary ladder

3) pride has nothing to do with the ego

tom hanks in castaway when he has made fire feels great pride when he succeeds in making fire - pride, but without group to be appreciated by, then produces no ego, or does it - notice how he behaves as if there were a group though - is ego the instinct or the response

if you did something really great in the woods and felt great pride for or about what you were able to do, and there was nobody around for miles and miles, and you were aware of exactly what the ego is, could you recognise and turn off the ego desire and response?

enjoy,

e.

This post has been edited by esoterica: Nov 27 2006, 09:42 AM

next page sorry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif)

This post has been edited by Gopendra: Dec 29 2006, 05:45 AM

The soul is constituted by a substance above in which is shaped the personality. Ego is the substance condensed and proportionally shaped according to the impressions that it accepts. Proportionally, therefore, the substance with the impressions that it accepts and conceives, shapes ego and it is enslaved in that. Ego is what constitutes the prison of substance,the darks of our soul, our darks.
Each significance erroneous, that we make in our brain, is ego. Each ego have a form and a density that depends from the intensity of our wishes. Egos are the negative elements that we bring in us, that is to say our faults. "I" am not - two - three... They are many thousands, a legion entire. Egos are are the fighting forces in us and us they prompt in internal agitation, in passions, wishes, negative emotions, e.t.c. that give us pain and infelicity.
We said that we were given birth with only 3% of conciousness, that is to say just 3% of our perception self. This percentage with the logic appears somehow small.
But it is not thus, because this energy it is terribly possible, it is creative, it is in place to neutralise and to destroy those negative elements in us. Is the Davi'd of Gospel that should it neutralises the Goliath. The Dayvid is the substance, the Goliath is the ego. But what becomes? When the substance is clean and it contains other mixings wich they are innocently, it is pure, without "smart mentality. While it grows this innocent substance begins (the conciousnes)to feed mind from ego. The internal light of conciousnes begins to get terrorized , to be eaten, to be jailed from darks. That is to say, the substance is jailed in in ego and is lost the conciousnes.
Then, this so much beautiful, bright, so much pure, tender, the so much happy creature, that we all worshipped, begins to become reagent, untamed, the bad child, later the anarchist, the lustfull, the evil's adolescent and it is completed as a man or woman, with much faults, and a big crowd of psychological problems, that many times bring the destruction around them, even in entire the humanity. Thats because we ignore all these, we all believe that we are a individuality, but actually, we are a multiplicity. They are various egos that we bring in...

The ego of pride is the most difficult one to destroy,even saints have the ego of the pride,think that if we do something really good that deserves whisdom,our pride might destroy that whishdom...

This post has been edited by Gopendra: Dec 29 2006, 05:44 AM

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The spirits speak only one word to me "impermanence"

Then, read my signature....again LOL

ganbate!!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clapping.gif)

The Wanderer