A Complex Issue... Options

I rarely ask for advice, so cherish the moment k? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

the situation: I know someone who was abused as a child. as a result of this abuse, they have a number of psychological 'issues'. They also have something which is not really a full blown split personality disorder, but kinda leans that way. Basically there is a facet of their psyche which they regress into when under overt stress. This facet talks in a higher pitched voice, more reflective of the age range when the abuse occurred, and one eye goes slightly to the side which reflects that the person had a lazy eye as a child which was corrected as an adult. also it refers to itself in the 3rd person. It is not a fully independent personality or anything, but it is a regressive facet of the main personality.

Basically this regressive personality facet is very self destructive. In extreme cases I have observed the person punching themselves, but usually it is just a sort of verbal rant. The rant is not really an interactive dialog with others present, but more of a inwardly directed implosion of negativity. comments include ideas like the universe having special rules for him, or that he exists for the amusement of cruel people, or just general self loathing derogatory comments.

In a way its sort of an 'inner demon'. clearly not an actual "demon", but a facet of self which may as well be one. I couldn't imagine an actual demon dumping any more bile and negativity onto this person than this facet of their psyche does.

This facet of their psyche is 'set off' by any criticism or percieved insinuation which questions his value or proficiency at something. This can include inanimate objects... ie if something is not cooperating, he can perceive it as mocking him, which sets off this sub-persona, and a rant of inwardly directed negativity. It acts almost like the abusive personalities which created it, and continues a pattern of abuse in the person's life, replacing parental abuse with self abuse.

Obviously this facet of the person is a real and true part of their psyche, of their mind, their personality, etc. It is a very unfortunate development really. Aside from this one flaw, this person is really a great individual, loyal, kind, selfless, dependable, etc. It just makes it that much more tragic that he was so abused as a child.

anyway, given that this facet of personality is a part of them... perhaps an undesirable part, but a part nonetheless... do you feel it would be wise or ethical to 'bind' that facet of their psyche?

I ask, because the other day this person had a negativity-fit, and since very few things seem to actually help durring such a fit, I thought to try binding that persona-facet. I did this covertly and without informed consent. At first the persona seemed to fly into an even more livid rage than usual, it reacted almost like an entity which knew it was being bound or exorcized. but as I built up the binding to the point where it became overwhelming, the person did revert to a more passive and lucid frame of mind, and seemed to be much 'better' in terms of how they felt in their own estimation.

For the time being, I am maintaining the binding, as it seems to be genuinely beneficial to the subject. However, I am not certain that this is really an ideal solution. I'm not worried about making a binding which may later break and cause problems that way. I am quite confident that I can design a binding that could last a lifetime and then some. But I am not certain that it would be the most beneficial thing to do for the person, in the larger scheme of things I mean. I am... very touchy about tampering with peoples' minds. I find it to be a very ethically challenging area of expertise.

Is this facet of the person's mind a 'cancer'? I think it would be easy to jump to that sort of conclusion, but I am not quite so ready to draw that conclusion myself. I try very hard not to presume or interject prejudgment into my perception of the situation. And bear in mind that my 'shade' could easily be viewed as 'demonic' in nature, but it has become a valued portion of my larger sense of self. Passing judgment on a facet of psyche is something I am very reluctant to do.

There is also the issue of sovereignty. Obviously this is not 'my' mind we are talking about, so what right do I have to tamper? Then again, if you saw someone in pain with a thorn in their flesh, wouldn't you reflexively reach out and pull out the thorn for them? hard to say...
This person is someone I care about. It is frustrating to think that I may have the power to 'fix' their mind, but may lack the will to use it, because I do care so much, and part of me says you don't go "fixing" people you care about... or maybe you don't let people you care about languish in pain when you can stop it... gah.

Also, in deciding to do this binding to help this person, I have gained the full attention and ire of the negative sub-persona. If I were to let it go, it is possible (unlikely but possible) that it would turn its anger temporarily at me, and cause the person to lash out at me physically. I view this as very unlikely, but certainly this abused facet of the person's psyche despises being 'tied up' with a very deep hatred. So there is a slim (and I emphasize 'slim') chance that 'letting it go' could be dangerous to myself personally at this point.

It's also worth noting that I have tried a more "passive" cognitive approach to helping this person for about 2 years now, with little to no benefit.

So, I'm not really just looking for a second opinion, but also any type of insight or viewpoint which you might feel to be vaguely relevant. Anything which might make good food for thought relative to this situation would be helpful.

thanks in advance,
Kate

This post has been edited by Kath: Nov 4 2009, 03:57 AM

my 'whacked path' advice, warning label included:

mind your own business, sincerely stop stressing them, release the binding permanently, take your punishment for doing it in the first place, then let them live the life that they were meant to live, to work out their karma or whatever it is they are working out - it is something they have to do on their own, period

just speak to them as a friend, one who accepts them just as they are, without judging them or yourself, one who understands their trouble but has no desire to step in it - forget superior and inferior and bad and good then just speak normally to your friend, non-judging and constant, like a star in the night sky - if they have a fit, just wait it out or leave til its over, and tell them to their face that that's what you will do when they have fits like that, no because it bothers you but because you don't want to get caught up in the drama

keeping yourself centered is staying as far as possible from the extremes, and that includes compassion - for the xtian, this means no jumping onto the cross with jesus to share the suffering, or trying to help jesus cure the sick, as all this somehow makes you superior to normal people, and superiority is nothing but the physical body's ego moaning like a hungry ghost - the ego must die, completely, for the soul to be free

and if you just have to meddle, to do something for the afflicted person, then you should have produced something to referee their stresses, but that is a full time job that lasts forever and has no outcome

and no stressing them just to watch their eye go wonky, although that might be fun lol

This post has been edited by esoterica: Nov 4 2009, 10:07 AM

Is this person practicing self-harm or is there risk of harming him/herself or others? You don't mention whether your friend is receiving mental health treatment, either pharmaceutical or counseling, but I would hope so. If not, as a friend getting him/her help would be my first response. I do know of individuals who have a mental illness but are in denial. Then there isn't much you can do unless they become a danger to themselves or others. Multiple Personality Disorder is controversial, but they seem to use both analysis to attempt to integrate the personalities, and drugs to alleviate the symptoms. You might say that binding that aspect of the personality is like alleviating symptoms. You mention that this doesn't seem to be full blown MPD, but rather a milder form that somewhat resembles it.

I'm not a mental health professional, but until a couple year ago I had a client who had MPD. She was very very intelligent, and a good person. Her body, especially her forearms and back were covered with scars. It looked as if she had been whipped about her back and shoulders. Her wrists and forearms seemed to be scars from self cutting. I liked her, but the one time she reverted during treatment, it really freaked me out. Her spirit became distorted and disturbed. It was all over the place, roiling, flickering and turned dark like a cloud. She reverted into a toddler stage, got off the massage table and sat on the floor in a corner. She radiated pain and fear, enough that I felt terribly uncomfortable. I threw a sheet over her body and tried to talk to her and calm her. Eventually she came out of it. I remember feeling terribly unprepared for dealing with it.

It is a thing of the spirit as well as the conscious mind. I'm not sure if binding it will work long term or not. It is a coping mechanism, although it isn't a good coping mechanism. The problem is that if this coping mechanism is halted, would your friend be able to develop a better, new mechanism to deal with stresses?

Both excellent points from both es and goibnui.

I liked how es really pointed out the karmic rammifications of binding someone without their permission. From my point of view through practicle magick the only time you bind anything is if it poses an overt threat to you or innocent by standers. Others may choose to disagree and all as well that is said and done.

I think Goibnui did a great job illustrating the spiritual nature of a person with true dissociative identity disorder (DID is just the more modern alphabet soup psychologist use over MPD). A person with true DID is not just experiences sudden and often random breaks in their personality but their very spiritual nature changes with each episode. Although DID is very rare those who have it can have 1,3,4....12+ personalities hiding inside one brain. I know that sounds nuts but whats even more nuts is that in some cases the host personality will not smoke whereas an alter personality will. Or one personality will have almost prodigal skill as an artist or pianist - even though the host personality doesn't already have any such skills. It truly is an incredible disorder.

The leading theory behind these alternate personalities is that they act as a coping mechanism to deal with stress and were created at an early age in order to deal with extreme and prolonged abuse that was not only physical but verbal and even sexual. In a way a person with DID is only a shell of an individual who's true identity only exists in name and in circumstances that are stable enough for that core personality.

the situation: I know someone who was abused as a child. as a result of this abuse, they have a number of psychological 'issues'. They also have something which is not really a full blown split personality disorder, but kinda leans that way. Basically there is a facet of their psyche which they regress into when under overt stress. This facet talks in a higher pitched voice, more reflective of the age range when the abuse occurred, and one eye goes slightly to the side which reflects that the person had a lazy eye as a child which was corrected as an adult. also it refers to itself in the 3rd person. It is not a fully independent personality or anything, but it is a regressive facet of the main personality.

I'm sure you already understand this; but you are dealing with a person who has had a past of severe trauma and abuse. I mean try to just imagine the whole host of dark thoughts that race through this person's mind - when they are feeling normal! In the case of dark thoughts for this person it mostly has to do with percieved threats that really are not threats at all.

Basically this regressive personality facet is very self destructive. In extreme cases I have observed the person punching themselves, but usually it is just a sort of verbal rant. The rant is not really an interactive dialog with others present, but more of a inwardly directed implosion of negativity. comments include ideas like the universe having special rules for him, or that he exists for the amusement of cruel people, or just general self loathing derogatory comments.

I have to agree with Goibnui on this one as well - how realistically likely are they to be a threat to themselves or you or others? Take a risk assessemnt of 1-10, 1 being harmless 10 being imminent danger. How stable is this person? Like how likely are they to fly off the handle at a given moment? If they are really unstable and unpredictable I think a risk factor is at least 7, meaning they are a danger to themselves or others.

In a way its sort of an 'inner demon'. clearly not an actual "demon", but a facet of self which may as well be one. I couldn't imagine an actual demon dumping any more bile and negativity onto this person than this facet of their psyche does.

Try not to demonize this "alter ego". In my mind a demon implies a being of evil intention. This alter ego of you friend of yours at the core is not a demon, just a very hurt little boy who doesn't understand how to cope with the feelings and events that happened to him in the past.

anyway, given that this facet of personality is a part of them... perhaps an undesirable part, but a part nonetheless... do you feel it would be wise or ethical to 'bind' that facet of their psyche?

I ask, because the other day this person had a negativity-fit, and since very few things seem to actually help durring such a fit, I thought to try binding that persona-facet. I did this covertly and without informed consent. At first the persona seemed to fly into an even more livid rage than usual, it reacted almost like an entity which knew it was being bound or exorcized. but as I built up the binding to the point where it became overwhelming, the person did revert to a more passive and lucid frame of mind, and seemed to be much 'better' in terms of how they felt in their own estimation.

No. All you did was put a cork on a volcano. I don't mean to sound harsh on you, your intentions are commendable. But there will come a point where this alter ego boils over and no binding will be able to hold it back. I mean its like dropping mentos into a diet coke and capping the bottle and hope it doesn't explode. See the alter ego of this person is how he deals with his troubling emotions. He gets himself worked up, can't handle it and reverts back to his childhood self because no one ever taught him how to properly deal with his emotions.

For the time being, I am maintaining the binding, as it seems to be genuinely beneficial to the subject. However, I am not certain that this is really an ideal solution. I'm not worried about making a binding which may later break and cause problems that way. I am quite confident that I can design a binding that could last a lifetime and then some. But I am not certain that it would be the most beneficial thing to do for the person, in the larger scheme of things I mean. I am... very touchy about tampering with peoples' minds. I find it to be a very ethically challenging area of expertise.

Again I think es did a fine job explaining what would be my advice to you as well.

Is this facet of the person's mind a 'cancer'? I think it would be easy to jump to that sort of conclusion, but I am not quite so ready to draw that conclusion myself. I try very hard not to presume or interject prejudgment into my perception of the situation. And bear in mind that my 'shade' could easily be viewed as 'demonic' in nature, but it has become a valued portion of my larger sense of self. Passing judgment on a facet of psyche is something I am very reluctant to do.

I see your analogy that this facet is like a disease that is slowly killing your friend. The problem is that it is not actually a disease. Its a part of who he is; its hard wired into his personality its in his brain. So to continue with this analogy rather than give him chemo, more likely it'd be a lobotomy. I don't mean he needs a lobotomy I'm stressing that it can't be treated like cancer and just sort of cut out. To do so, would be a lobotomy.

There is also the issue of sovereignty. Obviously this is not 'my' mind we are talking about, so what right do I have to tamper? Then again, if you saw someone in pain with a thorn in their flesh, wouldn't you reflexively reach out and pull out the thorn for them? hard to say...

But you didn't pull out a thorn, you put a band aid over a festering wound. I think most humans would try to help a person if they saw them in need (though some studies would beg to differ). Its getting that person the right help that matters though. If a person is having a heart attack you don't immediately give them heart surgery unless you are doctor who is capable of that.

This person is someone I care about. It is frustrating to think that I may have the power to 'fix' their mind, but may lack the will to use it, because I do care so much, and part of me says you don't go "fixing" people you care about... or maybe you don't let people you care about languish in pain when you can stop it... gah.

This part takes me back to where es talked about that "Jesus" complex and letting your compassion stroke your ego. I do not doubt that you genuinely want to help your friend. You wouldn't have asked for advice if you didn't. Its just that by allowing yourself to sort of meddle with your friend's mind you yourself are being sucked into this spiral of of destruction. Perhaps to a lesser extent. But suppose this binding really is like a cap on a volcano - do you want to be near by when it blow? Let me stress this point, this alter ego of your friend's is a coping mechanism for his emotions. Without that mechanism he just represses his feelings. And just like a volcano buidling pressure, eventually that emotion is going to erupt. It might involve suicide, it might involve harming you or someone else. It might just be a very manic episode the scares the shit out of both you.

Also, in deciding to do this binding to help this person, I have gained the full attention and ire of the negative sub-persona. If I were to let it go, it is possible (unlikely but possible) that it would turn its anger temporarily at me, and cause the person to lash out at me physically. I view this as very unlikely, but certainly this abused facet of the person's psyche despises being 'tied up' with a very deep hatred. So there is a slim (and I emphasize 'slim') chance that 'letting it go' could be dangerous to myself personally at this point.

I hate to just label a person with a mental disorder but its not dissociative identity disorder. Although he does seem to have some dissociation its more a reversion into a childhood self which is different than competely changing personalities. What you are describing seems more compatible with either a severe boarderline personality disorder or a dissociative personality disorder. Even if its something else I would be violating my own ethical values if I didn't state the obvious: Your friend needs professional help.

If you want a spiritual approach an excorcism of some type might help. But even then that should not be the end all be all. Your friend should still at least see a therapist. I think by simply taking this into your own hands will put you and your friend at risk. I think you should really do everything you can allow him to seek help. But do nothing to further enable his own state of mind. To paraphrase es, he simply has to follow his own karmic path and you shouldn't allow yourself to get sucked into it.

I am not an expert on chaos magic, or any magic for that matter, hopefully yet, but I wonder, would having a personality which CAN engage in extreme dissociative acts of identity become an enormous asset as a chaos magician?

I also remember reading Crowley also told his followers to change personalities as a kind of practice at becoming a magickian.

I also wonder, speculatively, how probable is that a seriously emotionally disturbed magician who can master his inner disturbances with a core psychopathic personality could become a highly talented left-hand magician?

If magic is creating change in accordance with one's will, wouldn't the emotionally disturbed, as a result of their experiences, possess enormous, although perhaps twisted, amounts of will?

How can you master reality unless you are separate from it?

This post has been edited by myusername: May 24 2010, 06:57 AM

esoterica, i think we're looking at this very differently. for example it has never once occurred to me to prod him to see his eye go wonky. I just don't think we're on the same page.

goibniu, he has had mental health care in the past, including 2 stints in a mental healthcare facility. His experiences with the psychiatric field of medicine have been almost unanimously negative. Even though I do think that psychological aid would be of assistance to this person, I doubt he could engage it without bias at this point. Unfortunately, there is a lot of pretty poor medicine being practiced in the psychiatric field. His stressed-persona seems kinda like MPD, but it's easy to see that it's not genuine mpd. It does have some of the characteristics of mpd though. There are also some highly neurotic aspects, bordering on mildly psychotic. For example, imagining that mental personifications, or caricatures, of some of his childhood persecutors (whom he dwells on when upset), are 'real' (albeit nonphysical). Sort of like having an invisible friend, but one who kicks you when you're down. Really, both these externalized invisible persecuting beings, and his self abusing stress-coping persona, all strike me as sort of thoughtforms.

He is 'very difficult' to be around when he is in this altered stress-induced mode. most of all he is difficult for himself to be around.

acid09, I don't disagree with your conclusions. The things you state are almost every one of them things which I have thought about as well. Which is exactly why i was looking for additional perspectives and input here. you're basically reinforcing some thoughts I have already had on the matter. I will say though, that "professional help" is not an option in this case. he perceives those who work in an official capacity as mental healthcare workers, to be very much a part of that universal undertow which has caused him so much misery (and not without good reason I'm afraid). Unfortunately, when dealing with psychiatry, "professional help" is often anything but.

as for the cork in the volcano analogy... I am fairly confident that I could make a binding which renders that a null issue. Not everything which is built to hold back a force is doomed to explode. If it is designed with an understanding of the pressures involved, then it's more like a dam than a corked volcano.
but like I said, I've come to agree with many of your other points. I never really disagreed, but regarded both viewpoints as possibilities. thus the 'asking for advice' bit, to break indecision.
__

I did remove the binding, not long after creating this thread. I spoke with someone who was pretty well recovered, but had similar psychological issues as my friend. They urged me to forgo the binding, and offered some alternative ideas. I was never very comfortable with the binding, and I took their relatively well informed advice & insight.

__

myusername,
Mental instability does not, in my view, create more Will for the purpose of doing magick. On the contrary, mental instability undermines one's ability to bring their focus and will to bear, and cause change in accordance thereby.

That's not to say that the ability to 'be neurotic' couldn't be useful to the practice of magick. I think it can be, very much so. I mean, just for example, when I *do* magick, I have absolute confidence and will towards my goal. But when i'm done, I rationally realize that of course I could fail, and I examine my results and methods with some scrutiny. But while doing the magick, I don't allow such realistic and rational doubts to be a part of my psyche. That's just an example from my own magical practice methods, that compartmentalizing psyche & paradigm, and manipulating reality perceptions can be a useful magical tool. But in general, I do not think that being mentally ill will engender any special magickal ability. They tend to have very strong energy, as a group, but their Will is almost nonexistent and/or out of their conscious control. They often suck at focus as well.

But, i'm speaking in very sweeping generalities, there are thousands of ways to be 'mentally ill', and they are not all the same. Likewise there are many ways to practice magick, and different methods interact with one's mental state somewhat differently. I fully expect that in some situation's I'd be wrong. but in a majority, i'd say its a disadvantage, not an advantage.

This post has been edited by Kath: Jun 24 2010, 09:19 AM

ah, gentler days...

thoughtform? - try not a binding, but how about a test?

is there a implanted thoughtform test? - i had one, and the only way to see was to change myself and watch for the lag as it changed to be the same - the only other test i know is to prod it til it manifests, and that may harm him badly, just to prove something so you already believe exists, judging by your reply? - so then what, banishing, exorcism (just another form of banishing imo)? - and is this thoughtform generated by the person themselves or an external parasite?

well a "thoughtform" is a facet of one's psyche, which may (or may not) end up splitting off from your contiguous mind to become independent.

I think we're using the term differently here.

although it is a somewhat ambiguous term, and I think that's why I chose it, because it's a somewhat ambiguous situation in my friend's head. It's not hard to view the things that plague him as external to "him", his core self, and therefore a sort of enemy from without. But by the same token it's quite easy to view it as being reflective of some fairly core internal aspects of his own psyche, in which case you couldn't really go doing things like 'binding' it as that would be harmful to him, despite a decrease in outward symptoms.

That's actually kinda what the whole thread boils down to. I undid the binding, a long time ago actually, because I became convinced by someone on another forum, that I was dealing with some fairly core internalized components of his psyche, and even though its unhealthy, binding it would be kinda like what acid09 talked about in his comparison with "lobotomies".

This post has been edited by Kath: Jun 24 2010, 09:21 AM

I guess I'm the odd man out; I think your initial course was best. As a most definitely mentally ill person, I wouldn't mind if someone did something like that - if it truly seems to help. I don't agree with the "cork in a volcano" analogy, although acid is commendably well-informed. If we assume the magic is efficacious, I would compare it more to taking medication to suppress symptoms: they won't explode out (except in cases where tolerance develops).

I know this topic is done but since I disagree with everyone, I had to jump in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Jun 24 2010, 10:46 PM

Yeah, I agree that it's as legitimate as medication.
I'm just not a huge fan of medicating for mental health though, except perhaps as a stopgap measure.

Ah, well, that's where we differ. I support medicating for anything and everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Jun 25 2010, 02:02 AM

i think you did well, for to bind a spirit (for that's pretty much what you were doing) just to control a body's whacked behavior would be wrong imo

now if it were a possession, i think it would be different, but its not really a case of possession, its a state of chemical imbalance or whatever physical whacked-ness where the spirit is just along for the ride, like being in a speeding toyota with a stuck accelerator lol

as for drugs, i'm all for them, as long as they are the natural variety!! - my big pharma is outside, in the yard and along the road, in waste places, in deep dark woods and quiet meadows - the screened-in porch looks like an upside-down garden right now with everything drying

is he no better?

Where's the gate? Sounds like someone has one open and isn't able to close it at will.... there's nothing that can harm a person unless its facilitated in someway, this person is still holding onto something that's allowing an alter ego to manifest enough to cause him harm. What ever triggers the episodes brings it through and its that that needs working on.

Key word when dealing with illness in my opinion, facilitation... all illness being paracidic in nature, in need of a host and a certain habitual modes within which to survive, just as you would offer an enviroment to an entity when ev/invoking a sickly person offers that enviroment to a parasite, the more comfortable it is the more control it has.

Intresting points on egotism and compassion back there, really didn't think of things that way.

i'm getting ego lessons right now - how it is tied to the flesh, how is like an organ and causes 'specific hungers' for its nutrition, how is a built-in survival mechanism that comes with these flesh bodies, how the spirit world has no flesh and thus no ego, how when ap'ed the ego seeming disappears cause you leave the flesh behind

it is linked somehow to the positivity lessons i was getting before, where i ended up standing very still on a mountain top looking at stars rising up from the horizon and realizing it wasn;t the stars that were moving but that this planet we were standing on was spinning (to this day i can feel the spin when i look up at the sky), and how all the shit here is so incredibly insignificant as to be totally absolutely unimportant whatsoever - no matter what happens to earth and to humanity, absolutely nothing in the universe will care even one little tiny bit

we, like the monkey george from the other thread, perhaps chemically driven by the body's organ of the ego, always seem to look for god, because that makes us worthy - we really must be special if we are the playthings of a god, or a disease, or whatever - to deny the hungry ego is to facilitate unworthyness in the eyes of our god, and of course that just moves the ego to see the self as god

so to conquer the illness in your friend would require making him a god, then he could control himself instead of being at the mercy of the manifestation - but the ego would rebel and see itself as unworthy and throw the body into the manifestation in order to stop it! - lordy what a paradox!

This post has been edited by esoterica: Jun 29 2010, 09:25 AM

Not nessarily, all he needs to do is balance, equilibriate himself well enough to avoid the illness and begin to 'build it out', Ie: Settle into changes in his life style, personality and so on enough to stop facilitating what the manifestation needs in order to survive. All systems of spirituality have the same fundamental to them balancing the elements in the body in order to improve on the human condition making sacrifice of what can't stand up to that equilibriation, alchemical, exhaultation. Function or 'vibrate' at a higher level to the force in question. The illness as it stands will be, ''seen'' in everything that he does, the real danger is when that person not only accomodates the manifestation unwillingly, subconsiously, but establishes a relationship with it a dependancy which would (obviously) be self harming, submissive and masochistic in tendancy.

As it stands people who are mentally ill have a channel open, a ''gate'', thats allowing a negative aspect of themselves through well enough to make an attempt on their body, by putting them through therapy doctors are attempting to close it, giving them medicine attempts to settle them enough to prevent them accomodating the manifestation but at times dosen't allow them to establish new ground enough to close the gate and prevent regression or, worse, puts them in such a state that it perhaps allows the manifestation to further its control over them in diffrent ways than it did before.

Apologies for the last paragraph, its a reply to a PM someone sent asikng for an opinion. Do like the idea of treating the ego as an illness... a statement of exsistance?

This post has been edited by Mchawi: Jun 30 2010, 05:12 AM

it is perhaps worth noting, that in my path, it is of paramount importance to embrace 'the entire self', instead of allowing any particular facet to dominate and repress other facets of self. In this way, to work away from centering self awareness in the internal dialog, and towards a sort of "mushin" self awareness, where the entire mind is essentially made conscious, and harmonized into a greater whole. It is a somewhat less common interpretation of the disintegration of 'ego'.

Anyway, in such a model, all aspects of self must be embraced, without judgment, and yet also forced to surrender to a sort of 'overself', in such a way that all of self is represented and harmonized, disallowing any bit of self to assert itself against anything which is another bit of 'self'.

Within this model, binding a portion of his mind, even one so drastically unhealthy for him, could later stand as an impediment to his spiritual development. Also, it is worth noting, that when it comes to his personal energy, this negative aspect seems to have a much greater access to his energy than other facets. A more sort of primal connection to his "oomf", the essence behind his being effectual. Unfortunately, that inner energy reserve is being perverted against himself in a self-harm model. But I do fear that without it, his spirit and persona would lack a great deal of 'thunder' as it were.

This facet though is utterly determined towards self loathing, and undermining him in any and every arena of his life, an ongoing echo of the mentality of his abusers. So it's effect on him, his psyche and his life, is highly 'cancerous'. I kinda regard it as a no-win situation, where there simply is no ideal answer to be had. I think it will essentially be impossible for this person to make much headway towards the eventual goal of enlightenment, at least in this lifetime.

First of all i think you did the right thing in temporarily binding him that way, it's questionable to do it for a long time but shot periods of time can't hurt when it's a serious problem.

Second is don't give up, your clearly a powerful woman who is better equipped for sorting this out than any pathetic pill pushing psychologist.

Third, what you just said here
"it is perhaps worth noting, that in my path, it is of paramount importance to embrace 'the entire self', instead of allowing any particular facet to dominate and repress other facets of self. In this way, to work away from centering self awareness in the internal dialog, and towards a sort of "mushin" self awareness, where the entire mind is essentially made conscious, and harmonized into a greater whole. It is a somewhat less common interpretation of the disintegration of 'ego'."
Proves you've got the right idea, just stop seeing that part of him as having no use in the picture of his whole.

It seems to me that this childish aspect could be intergrated by subjecting it to a 'trip quest' where the father figure (if im right their) is either rejected totally (an possible alter sexual oriantation) or confronted in a balanced manor where the fathers
negative opinions/actions are rejected while the positive aspects are retained, this is no easy feat as it can take many years to come to terms with a fathers brutality.
Im guessing this poor man has already done this, while the traumatized child who still has total adoration for the father has not.
Maybe some kind of meeting between the two could resolve the separation, give the child the truth about his abuser and an ability to comfort+be comforted by himself, that is, i presume why he automatically turns to the child under stress.

None of that's easy to do and indeed it may not even be the right thing to do but i hope its given you a idea of what would be.
This man may never be able to live a good life if these issues are not addressed, will he be able to heal it alone? if that's a no then what have you got to loose?