Here I Am Options

Hi everyone,

My name is Mir (or Daniel if you prefer). Last year while studying Taoism I got side-tracked and stumbled upon the book Initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Brandon. I had just recently begun learning about other belief systems, having been a devoted Christion for most of my life. Catholic I would say, though I didn't attend mass all that much. When I was about eighteen I saw the movie Mists of Avalon and later read the book it was based on and it made me start to look into Paganism and rethink my beliefs. Most of the people in my environment are atheists and the few that are not are Christians, so I didn't really feel at home in the religion but it still fascinated me. I also started reading up on Oriental belief systems like Buddhism and Daoism, and while they also had some good points to them they never really felt right either. At twenty, I had still not found a new religion that felt right and even though Christianity didn't fully agree with me anymore either I still kept to it, since it was familiar. Then I found IIC and read a couple of chapters in it, tried some exercises but eventually stopped making time for it. Now I'm giving it another shot and it's going amazingly well, so I guess I am ready to learn at this point of my life, which is precisely why I am here. Since there are so few people over here I can spiritually relate to I hope to find some new friends and mentors here to debate with me and teach me. I've decided to take it slow this time and meditate on the theory for at least a week before I move on to practice. My original plan was to lurk here for a while and only register after I'd started the practice and booked some succes with it, but for some reason I felt compelled to register now, so here I am.

Even during my Christian period I've dabbled a bit with meditation and visualising, but that's as far as my abilities go. As for my knowledge, I only have a very basic understanding of most religions and even that bit surpasses my knowledge about Magick. My questions will be plenty and I hope some of you will be able to put up with them. Speaking about questions, here are some as warming up:

- What is a practitioner of Magick called, is there a general term (magician, mystic, hermetic,...)? The only way I could describe myself is as a seeker, but I'd like to know what you call yourselves.
- Is it possible that I have somehow ... met ... some of you already in a some way? I first thought it was because of the lurking, but I've never felt like this before when registering for a forum. As if I'm going to meet with people I already know or have known. Perhaps it's just the power of suggestion, though.

Thanks for reading and merry meet!

-- Edit --
To be a bit more specific about what I would like to learn: for starters I would like to be able to heal effectively. I'm healthy enough myself, but both my mother and my girlfriend have lots of negativity resulting mainly from the way they have been treated in the past. This negativity greatly affects their mental and physical health and they don't achieve anything using traditional medicine since they are both treating the symptoms instead of the cause. If possible, I would like to find a way to heal both of them, be it psychologically, energetically or whatever else works. If someone could recommend a path that will help me to eventually get there (I know it will take time), I would greatly appreciate it.

This post has been edited by Mir: Oct 12 2010, 05:58 PM

Hello Mir, it's lovely to meet another face in this wonderful forum.
I fear their has been a lot of experienced posters left for one reason or another resently,
which is a shame because lazy people with less eloquence such as me will have to post in their stead.

You have come to the right place an i hope you shall stay for lots of good discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- What is a practitioner of Magick called, is there a general term (magician, mystic, hermetic,...)? The only way I could describe myself is as a seeker, but I'd like to know what you call yourselves.
- Is it possible that I have somehow ... met ... some of you already in a some way? I first thought it was because of the lurking, but I've never felt like this before when registering for a forum. As if I'm going to meet with people I already know or have known. Perhaps it's just the power of suggestion, though.

I would personally call myself a Sorcerer, at the moment, it's hard to tell.
Their isn't much in it to be honest, paths intertwine an names like that are often attributed to users of all magic,
most people here would be happy being called 'Mage' i think, it's the most generic in an array of labels that are all exceedingly generic.

As for your second inquiry, i know what you mean when that happens, it's a feeling that is not to be ignored an is most likely spot on.
We are all learning, an to be in the virtual presence of seekers while seeking, pushing forward to achieve greater understanding as a mutual quest is a wonderful thing.

I was fairly determined to lurk for a while before my first post, that failed, probably for the better, the interchange of powerful words takes place here, it's best to be up front about presence,
information prefers a two way street most of the time, even on the internet, who are we to argue?

Welcome Mir Seeker, may you be able to learn all that you need from us to reach your optimum capability's and achieve your finest goals while you choose to be with us.

Welcome Mir Seeker, may you be able to learn all that you need from us to reach your optimum capability's and achieve your finest goals while you choose to be with us.

Thanks for the warm welcome, Draw. It was certainly eloquent enough. I'm looking forward to my time here, but I'll probably refrain from posting too much, since I don't think I'm able to contribute much at this point.

Welcome Daniel

I think you mean Franz Bardon, but people have typos galore on forums. I'm not well grounded on Ceremonial Magic. Primarily I do Qigong but am also a Gardenerian Wiccan and general all around pagan. I do treatments on my family fairly often, primarily western style massage and Qigong/energy work. But to do Qigong healing it helps a lot if you practice the exercises regularly to build up your energy first. The Middle Pillar Exercise from Ceremonial Magic seems very similar to what we do in Qigong to build up your energy, so it might be a substitute. I'm not as certain about healing spells done on someone. I just have never done them. But I have worked healing magic with them as a participant. Distance healing work is possible, but you have to have a strong connection of some sort. There are different possibilities, but you have to decide which method to study and master.

Well, it was not really I typo. I somehow always read his name as Brandon, but I stand corrected. I'm learning already! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think Qigong might work better for me, since spells don't feel very natural to me (yet). The problem with Qigong is that, as far as I understand, you need to have someone to practice your energy work with and I don't have anyone around who I can ask. I could try to look for classes, but at the moment I do not have time for them. I do most of my spiritual "work" late at night because of my busy schedule (college and two jobs), and I don't think there are Qigong classes at 2-3 AM. Do you think it would be possible to master Qigong all by myself? And if I don't choose Qigong or Ceremonial Magick, are there other paths that I can take?

- What is a practitioner of Magick called, is there a general term (magician, mystic, hermetic,...)? The only way I could describe myself is as a seeker, but I'd like to know what you call yourselves.

It depends on what sort of magick you practice, if you care for labels, and other such considerations.

Folk who are primarily concerned with manifesting spirits may be called conjurors or sorcerers, although those may be used either as primary categories or subcategories. Austin Osman Spare was a practitioner of witchcraft, and so I might call him a witch, but he was apparently a very talented sorcerer, and arguably the founder of chaos magick. Therefore you could also call him a chaos magician, which is a magick practitioner who utilizes the fundamental principles of magick but is prone to rejecting ceremonial methodology, ritual props, or any system of magick that he or she did not personally develop.

Ceremonial magicians are those who follow a particular tradition (magickal traditions may also be referred to as currents), such as Thelema (although I feel this knits elements of chaos and ceremonial magick together, as well as mysticism), masonry, or the Golden Dawn (this consisting of elements of Hermetic Qabalah, eastern metaphysical thought, oracular systems such as tarot and/or i-ching, Enochian magick, natural law, sacred geometry, and tidbits from Rosicrucian philosophy and ancient Egyptian spirituality). Note that while Qabalah is prominent amongst ceremonial traditions, there are legitimate differences between traditional Hebrew, Gnostic, and Hermetic Qabalah.

On a personal note, I used to consider myself a Hermetic witch, although I find myself trending towards ceremonial magick, and Thelema in particular. I find it rather difficult to label myself, as I also read tarot, study both laboratory and spiritual alchemy (both historic esoteric and Jungian psychological), have begun constructing Enochian regalia, and engage in a variety of mystical and meditative practices utilizing traditional techniques as well as hallucinogenic substances (i.e. DMT). I suppose I consider myself a Thelemite, although that can encompass so much. The use of labels is strictly up to the practitioner.

I find mysticism to be of another variety altogether, which can be a component of, or entirely independent of, magickal practice. The fundamental difference between mysticism and magick, in my opinion (so take with a grain of salt), is that mysticism is primarily a receptive function, whereas magick is projective. Shamanism, insofar as trance states, hallucinatory experiences, spiritual communion and the interpretation thereof, is more akin to mysticism. Oracular systems are also fundamentally mystical.

I would imagine many would disagree with what I've stated here. You'll quickly learn that any practitioner of the occult arts will develop their own unique understanding of occultism as a whole, and therefore terminology will be influenced by such personal interpretations.

- Is it possible that I have somehow ... met ... some of you already in a some way? I first thought it was because of the lurking, but I've never felt like this before when registering for a forum. As if I'm going to meet with people I already know or have known. Perhaps it's just the power of suggestion, though.

Yes, it's possible, depending on what you're willing to consider. I find that impossibility is largely determined by one's individual worldview.

To be a bit more specific about what I would like to learn: for starters I would like to be able to heal effectively.

It seems to be a common perspective amongst practitioners of healing arts that one does not heal others, but rather FACILITATES the healing of others by helping them to get out of their own way. I have successfully used acupressure to facilitate healing for emotionally traumatized individuals, but see no reason whatsoever to claim that I was responsible for the healing. Healing primarily occurs within. And one can only facilitate the healing of another to the extent that they are open to it. It may be the will of your mother and girlfriend to be negative. That is not your responsibility, but rather their karmic burden actualizing around their worldviews. You must not interfere beyond setting an example that indirectly challenges the assumptions that compose their reality gestalts. You cannot "fix" problems for others. Only through self-empowerment may one transcend one's limitations.

Having a flesh and blood teacher is always best, but you can do the exercises yourself and get results. There are books, and You Tube has some demonstrations of the exercises. You don't need a partner to do most Qigong, but after you develop some power and basic sensitivity you might want to find some guinea pigs or willing victims to experiment on. Mostly you just need the determination to practice regularly. After a few months when you begin getting results it becomes easier to motivate yourself. PM me if you have more questions like specific authors or books.

Well, it was not really I typo. I somehow always read his name as Brandon, but I stand corrected. I'm learning already! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think Qigong might work better for me, since spells don't feel very natural to me (yet). The problem with Qigong is that, as far as I understand, you need to have someone to practice your energy work with and I don't have anyone around who I can ask. I could try to look for classes, but at the moment I do not have time for them. I do most of my spiritual "work" late at night because of my busy schedule (college and two jobs), and I don't think there are Qigong classes at 2-3 AM. Do you think it would be possible to master Qigong all by myself? And if I don't choose Qigong or Ceremonial Magick, are there other paths that I can take?

It seems to be a common perspective amongst practitioners of healing arts that one does not heal others, but rather FACILITATES the healing of others by helping them to get out of their own way. I have successfully used acupressure to facilitate healing for emotionally traumatized individuals, but see no reason whatsoever to claim that I was responsible for the healing. Healing primarily occurs within. And one can only facilitate the healing of another to the extent that they are open to it. It may be the will of your mother and girlfriend to be negative. That is not your responsibility, but rather their karmic burden actualizing around their worldviews. You must not interfere beyond setting an example that indirectly challenges the assumptions that compose their reality gestalts. You cannot "fix" problems for others. Only through self-empowerment may one transcend one's limitations.

I hadn't thought of it that way. If you look at it in that light, I guess it is egotistical of me to try and help them because I want them to be happy? However, suppose they are open to help and ask me to facilitate their healing. Is it then not wrong to interfere if their karmic burden is still there? If I facilitate their healing in that scenario, won't karma express itself in another way? And how does all of this apply to physicial healing? Can't a broken leg, for example, also be an effect of karma? The problem is that I'm not and might never be at a point where I truly understand the laws of karma. The only logical solution seems to be either to help nobody and not risk interfering with karma, or to help everyone and take that risk.

If it is karmic burden, is there a way to relieve that karmic burden for them? Can I somehow transfer their negative karma to me so that they are relieved of their burden? I know that would probably be both unpleasant and unwise, I just want to know if it is an option. Don't worry, I'm not nearly in a stage where I'm able do any practice, this is all purely hypothetical.

-- Edit --

PM me if you have more questions like specific authors or book.

I get an error when I try to PM you. Probably becuase of the 3 posts probation. I'll make some posts in the other forums soon, I've got plenty of questions.

This post has been edited by Mir: Oct 16 2010, 03:50 AM

Mir,

Karma is kind of a can of worms, because interpretation varies according to tradition (and the Western idea of karma has been awfully bastardized). I'll offer my own perspective momentarily.

If you look at it in that light, I guess it is egotistical of me to try and help them because I want them to be happy?

In a way, yes - although I would hardly call that "negative" or "harmful" egotistical desire. The thing is, what a lot of people call happiness is actually a fleeting sensation that requires constant stimulus. But I think true happiness is much more than that, and it's something one has to discover through their own ingenuity and work.

However, suppose they are open to help and ask me to facilitate their healing. Is it then not wrong to interfere if their karmic burden is still there? If I facilitate their healing in that scenario, won't karma express itself in another way?

Their request would make all the difference. Insofar as karma is concerned, my understanding of it is rooted in Vedanta; karma is like seeds of experience in your consciousness which actualize into your individual reality until they are, essentially, uprooted. The logical mind creates stories around these experiences in which you are the protagonist, and you are inevitably confronted with them. You could describe this backlog of experiences, from which one must learn vital lessons, as karmic debt or burden (although the latter seems to specifically connote negativity, and it is perhaps best not to polarize).

A variety of spiritual traditions suggest that by beginning down a spiritual path, one instantly clears a notable portion of this debt. This view is often justified by a common experience amongst seekers: the instant one begins to tread the path, they are suddenly hit by a wave of trying events, circumstances, etc. The healing process may yield insights into the karmic debt of the healer, or the subject of the healing, or both. I highly suggest you study the concept of karma from myriad perspectives. A greater understanding of it may equip you with a broader set of tools with which to address karmic issues, or to advise others about them if appropriate.

If it is karmic burden, is there a way to relieve that karmic burden for them?

There may be, but I feel that it would be at odds with nature. Although it may be one's will to subjugate the universe to one's desires, self-mastery is generally accomplished by harmonizing oneself with nature.

Can I somehow transfer their negative karma to me so that they are relieved of their burden?

Their burdens exist because they have failed to learn the lessons of past actions or experiences. Think of it this way: if you had a child, could you learn math for them?

The healing process may yield insights into the karmic debt of the healer, or the subject of the healing, or both. I highly suggest you study the concept of karma from myriad perspectives. A greater understanding of it may equip you with a broader set of tools with which to address karmic issues, or to advise others about them if appropriate.

An excellent suggestion. Is it a good idea to start with Vedanta and broaden my view from there?

Thank you for your insight. I've already learned much from this topic, I'm looking forward to my time here.

You're very welcome. I hesitate to tell you where to start with any path of study, but it never hurts to start at the beginning and go from there. Vedanta is immensely valuable in that it is such an extensive and completely developed metaphysical system. For beginners and seasoned students alike, ancient Indian metaphysical thought (encompassing Vedanta / the Vedas, yoga, and tantra, as well as offshoot traditions) seems to be of immense use in that it not only provokes one to meditate on universality and delve into one's own psyche, but also involves distinctly physical ritualized action that I feel acknowledges the link between the seen and unseen, and is often missing from organized Western spirituality.

Ancient Indian religion is also the basis of the LHP/RHP paradigm - tantra is arguably the seminal LHP current, whereas yoga is RHP (LHP = indulgence with awareness, RHP = suppression/asceticism with awareness). A fundamental understanding of this dichotomy will help you see through the prejudices of later Western occult writers, and understand the evolution of such terminology in modern times.

An excellent suggestion. Is it a good idea to start with Vedanta and broaden my view from there?

Thank you for your insight. I've already learned much from this topic, I'm looking forward to my time here.

This post has been edited by th0th: Oct 20 2010, 10:57 AM