What is/are the nature(s) of the Demons/Infernal S Options

I think this would be an interesting discussion for magicians to discuss what they believe the nature of demons is. I think that this would be related to how we work with the so-called infernal spirits.

In Demonolatry(as practiced by the late First Temple of Demonolatry, discussed on the former site Tezrian's Vault, the book Modern Demonolatry, etc.), there is a difference between evoking a demon and invoking a demon. We believe that the so-called demons of today(related to the Judeo-Christian systems) were actually gods and goddesses of pre-Christian religions. The goddess Astarte is now Ashtaroth. The demon Belial is related to Baal, etc. We therefore do not evoke the demons. To evoke is usually to summon or call without, usually into a triangle or mirror or other method. To invoke is to call within the circle, sometimes within oneself. By using set invocations in the Daemonic Language, we can invoke the demons for various purposes, experiencing their energies. There is no need to evoke them, and we see this as a disrespectful way to treat gods.

Now, many wonder, if you shouldn't evoke demons, then when a mage successfully evokes Vassago or another demon from the Goetia, who is it that they call? Many Demonolators believe that these are actually god-forms that have gained power throughout the years that the Goetia has been in use. This is a perfectly fine thing to think, as many magicians know that god-forms are powerful(the Necronomicon comes to mind). Also, some believe that the Christian God is a god-form that has power, though that's subject to debate. Some Demonolators also believe that the demons ARE actually answering, b/c they've gotten used to this method of contact, though it isn't what they desire. However, it usually is the case that the Lucifer Demonolators experience is different from the Lucifer that various mages summon. Therefore, it seems as if we are truly working with different demons.

Anyone else have thoughts on this? What is the nature of the Demons?

I personally think they are the darkside of other godforms.For example Baal ,Beal to Durga ,Kali.The preverted leftover bits that is why the peices of the Kiffilpot are called demons.

personally, i don't think there is a such thing as rank or heirarchy within the spirit realms because organization is only a man-made concept, only re-cycled for many different things through evolution.
i can't speak for angels but i think that what we attribute to as demons are either parts of ourselves that are hidden, or ancient forces with in nature.

Greetings!
I've never heard of a'Demonic' language, could you point me in the right direction? I think it is foolhardy to invite anything inside ones self, be it demon or angel... As a onetime member of the Spiritualist Church I've seen some nasty stuff go down with some of the people trying to 'channel' dead things, etc. Most people don't understand how they're made and how they think let alone inviting outside entities in. What ever floats your boat! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif)

bym, the "Demonic Language" is central to Demonolatry, as practiced by the now defunct First Temple of Demonolatry and discussed on Tezrian's Vault(also closed). We're not really sure about the origins of this language, however, the interesting thing is that the invocations we use(called "enns") have been the same throughout history around the world. This shows us that there's something else at work since this isn't physically possible. If you've ever heard about the Dukante Hierarchy of demons(a quick google search and possibly looking at caches will provide results), this is the main hierarchy of Demonolatry, and Dukante was a Demonolator in the FToD type of practice(though the Temple didn't exist as an entity, the practice was in existence. It's rooted in the Hermetica which is a pretty old text). Demonolatry is now an underground religion b/c the response really wasn't what was expected(many people asked dumb questions like "do you sleep with demons", etc., sites plagiarized the book Modern Demonolatry, copyright infringement, etc.), so the sites, online stores, etc. were taken offline. It's not a religion you can make up, but one you must learn from a Demonolator. Lineage is very important in practice. However, you can still find caches of the old sites. Here's the info you might find interesting:

http://web.archive.org/web/20001118134200/...nting/gynna.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20010303015450/...cium/dukhi.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010303155443/...m/pantheon.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010303223258/...icium/wvsd.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010124053300/...atry.com/crypt/
http://web.archive.org/web/20010502201315/...atry/myexp.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20001025183323/...try.org/faq.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20010502203755/.../conjuring.html

One of those has an example of the demonic language. The more in depth information, invocations, family grimoires, Dukante Grimoires, rites, etc. are not and never were onilne. There's also info on the subject of invocation. Invocation is a part of basically every religion, especially the more "experiential" ones(Hinduism, Catholicism, Demonolatry, Wicca, types of Paganism, etc.). We call the energies of the Demons into our circles(note that the purpose and construction of the Circle in Demonolatry is very different from traditional Wicca, ceremonial magic, etc). The Demons are not evil, malevolent forces to be bound, commanded, etc. They are gods and goddesses, many of which were "demonized" by Christianity during its advent. The set invocations we have in Demonolatry are very powerful(similar to the power of mantras in Hinduism though used slightly differently)and are meant to be used only for invocation, not evocation. Therefore, we never evoke in Demonolatry.

Hope that all made sense!

perhaps by summoning certain demons from the goetia one could ask them to learn there language. then trough a multitude of workings one could establish a well enough knowledge of the demon language to actually learn to speak it.

in Demonolatry, the Demonic Language isn't necessarily a language spoken by the Demons, but the language that our invocations are in. You don't really "speak" it like you would study Spanish or French.

Greetings Adeptus!
Thank you for your reply. I have some fundamental differences with your religon but I'll stand by your rights to have it! I am not Christian but rather an eclectic pagan mix involving shamanism and the planet. At some other time and circumstance I would like to discuss some finer points with you about Dukante and his Hierarchy, Luciferianism and your Demonic 'language' (which looks to be a cross of Yezidi, Persian and something else...) Needless to say, thanks for the links and the response. I bid you welcome to the Forum! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

thanks for the welcome (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Sure I'd love to discuss Demonolatry(note there are fundamental differences b/w it and Luciferianism, though I thought they were the same at the beginning). And yeah I do think that the "demonic language" has elements of Persian and Latin in it, but the fascinating thing is that these invocations have been the same around the world at all times in all grimoires. Anyway, I do find it interesting that we all work with/worship different Infernal Spirits, yet we have different experiences with them, methods to work with them, etc.

I believe in two types of daimons- eudaimons and cacodaimons. I refere to the "good" ones as Daimons and the "bad" ones as demons. Daimons are knowledgeable spirits I think whom have lost their humanity or being for the sake of knowledge or power. While Eudaimons are not evil, nor do they wish any specific harm on mankind they are not pets who will come when called. Each has a specific identity or thought form, that in reality may just be an inherant part of the human pysche. They have specific names and powers. Ranks, in my mind, are symbolic but represent catagorizing the nature of daimons. The nature of any evocable thought form is the the limmitation of is usefulness. The lowest ones have a limmited, simplistic nature. They can not evolve easily or learn new things. They have specific tasks and are the easiest to summon. The greater the entity the harder it is summon, let alone control and banish. But the more it can do for the summoner. Another aspect of orders/ranks is a means of setting a mind frame for the summoner. The greater the spirit the more respect and humilty should be shown. Not just a mask but honest intent. Eudaimons, if true will tell their true name to the summoner. If it refuses than it is probably not the real entity and must be banished.

The latter, cacodaimons, I think are destructive and perverted spirits. They consist of energy that is destructive and abysmal. In order to sustain their pressance on the mandane they most manipulate other beings to sap them of their energy. Spiteful towards humans for having their place in existance. They are not stupid nor are they anything like demons from video games and tv. A real demon of this nature is one that will inspire shear terror just by being in its presances. They are cold to touch, smell bad, have bad tempers and are cruel. They may try to pose as a eudaimon, or even another spirit like a dead relative or some other being that a person may be willing to accept, to get access to one's ritual circle and poison or twist one's mind and afflict them with with any range of negativity. This can manifest as anything from nightmares, maddness, illness up to and including out right possession. If you are in the presance of a demon you know it because the area just seems "bad" or unpleasant. You may encounter the other aspects as well and also poltergiest activity. The few I've encountered made my hair stand on end, before I even realized what it was I was already afraid. And fear is what they are trying to get out of you. I see no real useful reason to rank these demons because they have no real use. Except to perhaps to banish them.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Jun 23 2005, 02:01 PM

I agree upon what you say, Acid09, although it be a bit vague.

Demons for me live in dreams and in the state between dreams and wake. For it is there I have met them.

Two kinds of experiences should be mentioned:

The first is meeting a demon feeding on fear. The most powerful one of this kind I met in the fog of dream/wake. I was completely paralyzed by the fear, and I felt a strong heavy presence, but all I could see was a huge body of black solid darkness.

The second kind, is meeting benevolent ones.
Once in a half-lucid dream I was in a castle with blood-colored walls. Then I met two demons that seemed to know me well. One was tall and resembled an old and wise vampire, and the other was muscular and crimson. When I met them I had an instant feeling of belonging.

In my daily waking life I work with demons in an invocative kind of way. I have a bunch that I have never seen, but have grown to know from letting them take over my thoughts and feelings for a while. After that is done, I can use what I have learned to resolve certain situations.

The nature of these last demons is eventually focused on destruction. The power they have is in dethroning or separating the superego from the rest of my soul.
Temporarily, of course, haha.


-thief

Acid09 i find it odd that you would cateragize demons in only two groups good and evil because rarely is anything just good or just evil. EX. in almost all religions you have a good and an evil but there has always been a trait in each that will contradict that like god be wise and all knowing, but he would send his children to a firey pit of endless suffering for practicing the gift of free will. So how can you say that all demons are either good or bad there are most likely alot of demons that don't want to harm you fust for the harms sake i mean a dog will bite you if you treat it bad but the dog isn't evil have you ever considered that the way your treating the spirit could be the cause of the negative on there part. feel free to contradict i plan on summoning soon and if it would be bad to treat the spirit which will most likely be a demon with respect then i would appreciate your input or anyone elses.

bym, the "Demonic Language" is central to Demonolatry, as practiced by the now defunct First Temple of Demonolatry and discussed on Tezrian's Vault(also closed). We're not really sure about the origins of this language, however, the interesting thing is that the invocations we use(called "enns") have been the same throughout history around the world. This shows us that there's something else at work since this isn't physically possible. If you've ever heard about the Dukante Hierarchy of demons(a quick google search and possibly looking at caches will provide results), this is the main hierarchy of Demonolatry, and Dukante was a Demonolator in the FToD type of practice(though the Temple didn't exist as an entity, the practice was in existence. It's rooted in the Hermetica which is a pretty old text). Demonolatry is now an underground religion b/c the response really wasn't what was expected(many people asked dumb questions like "do you sleep with demons", etc., sites plagiarized the book Modern Demonolatry, copyright infringement, etc.), so the sites, online stores, etc. were taken offline. It's not a religion you can make up, but one you must learn from a Demonolator. Lineage is very important in practice. However, you can still find caches of the old sites. Here's the info you might find interesting:

http://web.archive.org/web/20001118134200/...nting/gynna.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20010303015450/...cium/dukhi.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010303155443/...m/pantheon.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010303223258/...icium/wvsd.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010124053300/...atry.com/crypt/
http://web.archive.org/web/20010502201315/...atry/myexp.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20001025183323/...try.org/faq.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20010502203755/.../conjuring.html

One of those has an example of the demonic language. The more in depth information, invocations, family grimoires, Dukante Grimoires, rites, etc. are not and never were onilne. There's also info on the subject of invocation. Invocation is a part of basically every religion, especially the more "experiential" ones(Hinduism, Catholicism, Demonolatry, Wicca, types of Paganism, etc.). We call the energies of the Demons into our circles(note that the purpose and construction of the Circle in Demonolatry is very different from traditional Wicca, ceremonial magic, etc). The Demons are not evil, malevolent forces to be bound, commanded, etc. They are gods and goddesses, many of which were "demonized" by Christianity during its advent. The set invocations we have in Demonolatry are very powerful(similar to the power of mantras in Hinduism though used slightly differently)and are meant to be used only for invocation, not evocation. Therefore, we never evoke in Demonolatry.

Hope that all made sense!

Hey (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Well thanks for livening up Sacred Magick forums!
Do you guys have a handy list of which Daemon = Which old God anywhere that you actually give out? <g>

Athena

Ill just tell you what a friend told me.
Demons usually arent those evil beings stereotyped in the old grimoires.
Theyre mostly portrayed in those as evil entities but its the judeo-christian bias only. Now, there are nasty ones, but the same applies to angelic entities!
Most demons are actually beautiful creatures..

This post has been edited by GunpowderPerfume: Sep 2 2005, 11:14 PM