Does God Exist?, Share your opinions here. Options

Exactly! That's the same priciple appied to his existance!

In order for there to be nothing, "something" must define what is "nothing"!

Thus God... and the story contiues...

Yadda yadda...

There is no nothingness. Nothingness does not exist in a situation of governed by imagination and thought. By thinking of nothingness it become something. 'Nothing' exists by virtue of the fact that we have a word for it.

However, Nothing is not seen in terms of the physical senses, but in our mind, we can perceive 'nothingness' as if it had a tangible attribute -- a colour, feeling, taste or smell.

Therefore, the truth whether 'nothingness' can or cannot be percieved totally depends on one's convinctions regarding primacies:

Does the mind or the tactile senses come first regarding ones perception of nothing?

As thinking creatures we shall never be able to observe nothing or "lack of anything" because to observe there has to be something?

And is god really no-thing nothing? Just think about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sorry_2.gif)

I get what your saying... Think of it this way, what was there before there was "something," like God... Nothing... An absolute "Void" of existance...

But in order for this "Void" to exisit, "something," must define what is the area of absolute "nothing..."

It's like the number 0.... A zero has no value, no worth, and means nothing, yet it's defined at a ones or tens or hundreds place by "something", like non-zero numbers...

God plays the same part, In the VERY beginning, He/She/It, whatever defined where "nothing" was and where "something" began... And in doing so... God became the source of "everything" that was/is "something"...

Hope this doesn't confuse you... It's one of the hardest concepts to graps...

This post has been edited by UniOne: May 7 2005, 11:12 PM

This is becoming tautology at its finest! A typical man (or woman)-made frustration in explainations and attempts to define things of which we neither have much knowledge of or fully understand.

In the beginning there was nothing which became something - a singularity - the BIG BANG (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bomb.gif)

Having become something there was no longer nothing, and because mankind is in actual fact not really human but a species of sheep, he needs something Bigger and Wiser that he can follow blindly and worship. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/worthy.gif)

So the concept and necessity for god arose. The thought created the reality. Come to think of it humans probably preceeded god because they thought of him first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tomato.gif)

But this does not explain how nothing was there in the first instance, although we have established how, by virtue of the fact that having thought about it and analysed it, this whole silly discussion has now become something from nothing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hideingbhindcurtian.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/oops.gif) My words only

This post has been edited by Alafair: May 8 2005, 12:41 AM

Let me quote some bits and pieces from THE LOST TEACHINGS OF ATLANTIS by Jon Peniel ... where the author has tried to answer the same question 'does god exist?'

The inner being is god is universal consciousnes and is thus the highest possible awareness and source of information; remember all inner beings are one. Thus your inner being is every bit the same as the likes of Buddha, St Germain etc. YOu just have no idea yet. But your potential is every bit as great. The only difference is the great saints and ages chose to manifest their inner being.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif) I personally like that one.

'The most ancient name for the universal spirit is Yod He Vau He... but this ancient name is far more than just what another religion calls their version of the concept of god, or even a name. In fact, it was not meant to really be just a name at all. It is from before our time of human manifestation on earth. It is the physical word equivalent of a vibrational, or thoughtform. It is an actual representation of the universal law that governs the primary pattern. The name itself, is the key to creation, and the representation of the universal law of polarities and the replication/reproduction of all vibration. And remember, EVERYTHING is vibration. Contained in this one name for the one is the actual formula for creation, and the manifestation of all life within the one. Thus the name of god is probably the single most significant metaphysical concept there is.

Consider the similarities in the variations of names for the name of god .... Yahweh, Ya-Ho-Wah-Ho (YHWH), Ya-Ho-Wa and Je-Ho-Vah ... to name a few. YHVH us the tetragrammaton ...

the symbolism and structure of Yod-He-Vau-He is simple, yet deeply profound. And when its few simple elements combine, they give birth to the entire complexity of life. In part, YHVH represents that perfect simple pattern - the atom or solar system. It also speaks of human procreation and stellar/planetary procreation ...

The first part Yod represents the positive - sun, light, the father principles

The first He represents the negative (not the sense of evil) but negative polarity - pure darkness, that of the void; the receptive, the mother principles

Vau is the meeting of Yod and He - the place of interplay, intercourse (can I say that word), and combining of the first two principles. It is its own principle and the place of conception of, and the birth of the second He.

The second He is the offspring of Yod and He, the result of their interaction, their subsequent creation and has the same attributes of its father, the Yod in that it is actually is a Yod in its own macro or microcosmic realm ... The second He is on a vibration plane an octave apart. The second He begins the cycle (Yod-He-Vau-He) but AS THE YOD in microcosm or macrocosm and its polarity is reversed from its father Yod.

So the cycle of YHVH creation continues as an infinite spiral:-

YOD
HE
VAU
(infinite HE/YOD .............. octave
vibrational HE
spiral) VAU
HE/YOD .......................octave
HE
VAU
HE/YOD.................octave

YHVH makes a spiral (similar to DNA double helix eh?), each Yod in the same place on the circle of the spiral, but just above or just below ... on its own circle. These are octaves of vibration and can represent a micro or macrocosm world of existence ....

Yod-He-Vau-He represents many things in one. It is comprised of a numerological sequence which represents all things in the first four numbers. Einstein said we never need to count more than four to understand all things which implies he understood YHVH .

YHVH's most important representation is, the means of transition and manifestation of creation infinitely throughout ALL. If one truly understands YHVH, one understands the law governing all vibration and all creation.'

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/juggle.gif)

Simply ... is there a god? Yes .... all of creation which contains the universal consciousness is GOD ... god is all that there is; all things ... it is the universal consciousness within all things ... the omnipresence ... it is such a vast concept I cannot see it being contained in anything smaller than everything which exists .... we are fragments of god ... quicksilver droplets seeking the main reservoir of quicksilver .... fragments broken up by the big bang and thrown all over existence ... when these fragments all come together you will find god and the understanding of god!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/00000008.gif)

This post has been edited by Mr_Merlin: May 8 2005, 02:34 AM

Hmmm..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

......but all this still does not not explain the paradox concerning nothingness/nothing vs. something or what came first - the cart or the horse.

Then we have the additional quandary concerning realities and the absurd notion of unreality. Or could it be that reality is just a social solecism and just what we "perceive to be real", whereas illusion and unreality are indeed facts?

Alafair ~

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/snstgs7.gif)

Good reply ... see your point ...

But, I've spent many a frustrating contemplation on this theme ... trying to get my head around trying to imagine nothing .... absolutely nothing ... and then something being created out of that void ... I try to conceive the boundaries of the something and what is beyond it ... but my mind overheats at the thought ...

I often use the contemplation to reach out to my higher consciousness ... because this lower mind of mine can't get its head round the concept of there every being NOTHING!

Does god exist? I can't explain it. I can give my ideas. But ultimatly mine are no less or more valid than another's. I can say that I don't believe in a personified entity that resembles Gandolf sitting in the clouds controling the universe. There is no one entity expect for the entity that is equavilant to all things. This, my "god", can be broken up and disected and examined. Pantheons of dieties are an example. Rather than attributing all power to the source- the universe as a whole, people have divided it up to give a personified explaination about the forces in the universe. I guess its easier for peope to relate to a man with god like powers rather than just a force that is part of this non-being that is the entity of our universe -as a whole. Another example is in the sephroth tree of life. A division of the body of god into various realms of wisdom and experience where a practitioner can travel the body of god to find enlightenment on any scale that suits their needs. Then the tree is self has meaning the bottom represnting roots planted into the ground and from that a tree branches out to include all reallity. The four worlds themselves further divide god into, I suppose, more managable form. And of course each sphere on one of the, I think, 72 main paths is its own tree. Kinda like going from sub-atomic particle to atom to molecule to energy to matter and so on. Only perhaps the tree is a look from the highest (macro) to the lowest (micro).

The point is people divide the body, the whole universe, that is god into smaller factions, Archangels, angels, charrubim, nyphilim, and seraphym on to saints, fallen angels, and the consorts of hell are all a way for some to understand god by understanding it in sections, rather than as a whole. See we can't understand god as a whole because we humans are too young to do that. Perhaps one day we could. But for now our primitive minds can only examine the whole, that we can perceive, and reduce it into forms of understanding related to each perception. None of which are entirely true and yet none are entirely false. I could probably go on for hours trying to discuss and explain my idea for the existance of god, much like I'm sure many others could do. but for now this is what I think; I explore nature. I see the elements, I experience thought. I see the stars and endless black void of space. I see life and death. I also se many other things not listed. These are intertwined, like gears in a watch, to form one thing- the universe. And that to me is all the proof I need to find a perception of god. And that I believe in.

Well - and these are my words only y'all - I think that there is only a god[s] if you really want one. If you are not interested in or think of god(s) there are none.

God is truly a man-made hypothesis, a myth perpetuated by the insecurity of the condition in which we find ourselves, thereby needing to be as sheep. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/gathering.gif)

Can you prove your statement Alafair?
It is dogma to say that god does not exist, since you cannot prove he does not exist, neither can you prove he is only a man mad hypothesis.

I cannot prove his existance either.

So either way, wheter god is exists or not is unsure. There is no solid evidance so everyone can think what they want.

From the outset I did not, neither did I want to claim categorically that THERE IS NO god. It is my belief only that there is no god as I do not think of him, despite mentioning the word now and again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tomato.gif)

However, as thought transcends all barriers including the restrictions of prejudice and of social dictates, there might indeed be a god or more than one if sufficient contemplation is given to it all.

Anyway, what does it really matter?

IMO, it is all pie in the sky for when you die. Much better to get on with the matter of living while you are alive and then when you are dead - time is on hand to mull over the concept of god[s).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/snstgs7.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sorry_2.gif)

I just cannot understand how can a christian go to church and believe in all those saints and praise the Holy Trinity when in the Bible

What is your problem geegee?! We christians don't think we're so good because we go to church every sunday. Hell, i don't go to church on sundays. And why can't you believe we can go to church and beleive in the bible? I can't believe YOU practice some of the shxt you do. So if you have a problem with christians, say it to us and quit hiding behind those pointless posts you plague this forum with.

This post has been edited by The Black Devil: Jul 17 2005, 09:12 AM

The Black Devil, I do not like your tone to a fellow member in your post above. Please read Forum Guidelines.

Look, i apologize for anything i say that offends anyone on this site, but i feel that it is very insulting to talk of my religion that way! It's nothing personal, i just have a problem with anyone that does that. I try not offend anyone else of their religion, so don't do it to me.

I believe in the Void. That is, the Abyss of nothingness that surrounds us. To me, this is En Sof, the "Mysterious Uknown" of Zoharic cosmology. God is merely the place formed within the Void for the emergent property of creation.

Interesting thought - we are sovereign entities residing within the place of God. We are thus, each gods in latency, as were are not created in the image of the Void, but of the Place. Should we ever ascend to full realization of what and who we are, then we too would find our microcosm as full as the macrocosm.

As per me, God is that which transcends mental stupor and somnambulistic drowsiness.

For me, The God and The Goddess exist - and they are the two complementary aspects of Deity.

"Though One, Brahman is the cause of the many. Brahman is the unborn in whom all existing things abide. The One manifests as the many, the formless putting on forms."

this is god



Rig Veda

I've no doubt that God does exist. More pressing questions might be, is God the Creator of the entire universe and everything in it? What is God? What does God represent? These questions I'm totally sure of.
What little doubt I might have that God does exist is always destroyed by the rememberance that if there were no God, man would eventually create God that would transcend time and space, having therefore always been there. There's a fantasy series by CS Friedman about how a church was founded simply too create that force of God through the sheer belief of thousands, it was an enjoyable read.

Well, i am not faund of term "god", but, since we do not have another appropriate term (like it is case with , for example word love) , it will do.. On that obviously unvoidable question i have rather "strange" answer, or theory... in this stage of my personal insights i somehow have feeling that ther are multiple universis, and multiple gods , and that every entity is a god and in a same time "its own god nature" projection, it is in other words interactive relationship, in constant change...like it is case with this my view of multiple universis...

PS. again disclaimer, english is not my native language, so I am sorry for mistakes I make in my posts ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sorry_2.gif)

This post has been edited by ejaea: Aug 31 2005, 01:23 PM

God is a conceptual projection of mind. There is no individual entity which can be said to be God. God is All That Is. World & universe are governed by Cause-Effect Continuum or Law of Karma.

Durki:God is a conceptual projection of mind. There is no individual entity which can be said to be God. God is All That Is. World & universe are governed by Cause-Effect Continuum or Law of Karma.

Well, I have a feeling that this is the same thing that I have in mind(as i have tried to explain in my previous post) , but just "explained " in other terms?

This post has been edited by ejaea: Sep 2 2005, 07:58 AM

I remember a preacher that told that he had prayed to God to get this specific woman. He didn't get the woman, but instead God had given him a better woman, whom he then married. The woman he had prayed to get he later found was no good anyway.

For me there is no One God. Simply because you cannot ask this One God for anything.
The only god that can get what I want is Myself.

I remember also a guy that made a point that the evidence of the existence of God was clear as day, when you just thought about how many people on earth believed in God. Inside so many minds world wide.

Sure, perhaps I also believe in God, since I was brought up with the idea around me everywhere. But the parts of me that has a cause in the external environment is not at all who I am. Much of my work is to get rid of such.

A greater scheme of it all? This idea will only come down to the greater scheme of yourself.

Before giving yourself over to the almighty God, I would advice you to look into psychology for instance, and understand more about what makes you believe things at all.


-thief

i think that this is one of the PRIMARY QUESTIONS, and by that i mean that it is one of the questions that have shaped every aspect of mankind. i can understand those people who think that it is useless to even think about what God is and if God exists, we are finite beings and as such we will never be able to comprehend the infinite God as long as we still have physical finite brains, but the search itself is what forces us to broaden our conciousness and horizons. Forces us to see our worlds in new and facinating ways and most importantly to Create in our own rite. To stop contemplating that which is infinate is to stop pushing ourselves forward. It is not the answer that matters, only the question.

Having been brought up with the idea that God is watching and with us all of the time, imagine my surprise when I found out that there is a Goddess too!

Then of course, there are the Archangels, Angels etc etc, its quite crowded up there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I don't believe there is ONE GOD as some religions might say, I believe that whatever drives you to live each day is your god. An example would be a mother who has children, most mothers would do anything for them therefor it is their main focus in life or GOD. But on the other hand I believe that when someone prays to a certain deity for something it doesn't mean it is their god, but rather a tool they use to help them change the world they live in. The reason I dissagree with most religions when they say "My God is the only god" is because if their god was the only god why does it seem that their god is so threatened when people are worshiping other gods? From my point of view religion isn't about "saving people's souls" it is more of a popularity contest. I almost laughed out loud when the pastor at my step fathers church said "People now is the time to start preaching the gospel and saving our brothers and sisters from the fires of hell!! I have just gotten word that the muslim religion is now the fastest growing religion in the USA and we have to stop this!" Sigh, how pathetic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/badmood.gif)

Better yet...

If there is a god (and there are to many to name here). Then who/what created him or her (or it)? Now that is a good question! But if something did create god then what created that something that created god!?! OMG..

I feel that something was out there before time exisited. Then one day (or time?) that something became bored at whatever it was doing and it created life everywhere in all universes and so on. But still we can't answer that age old question.

I do feel that most of the questions that I have about life itself will be answered real soon. Only because life itself is sooo short and most of us should get such answers concerning questions like this when we move onto the next world.

I no longer question the existence of G-d, but I every day question the nature. The questions are a part of my joy and excitement in life.

My limited understanding and intuition gives me the idea IT, G-d, ect...it both the force which holds the universe and is the universe. I don't worship because worship, to me, implies a separation and I don't feel I am separated from IT but rather an integral part of. I do pray, but I have an idea I am speaking to the spark of IT within myself. The nature of my prayers change with the deepening of my understanding and, I'm sure, will continue to do so.

I think, since IT is the foundation of everthing, that science is the study of IT and religion, belief and philosophy is a way to strive toward, personalize and understand IT.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif) Right on, Skylyn!

Why do all the religions, who claim to have a monopoly on God, always see God as some big seperate entity? Sounds more like an egregore to me, and one made for the purpose of control. And why does this "God", who is so infinite, possess the human limitations of anger, jealousy, and judgementalism. To me, God is beyond all judgement, all duality, and beyond all the conceptions and limitations of the mind.

God is giving birth to itself to make love to itself to eat itself to crap itself out to make itself grow, to expand to contract to flow - to BE. God is awareness, IS experience and life itself. Pure beingness in and of itself.

It's a pleasure to meet you, Flyingmojo.

I think there are many reasons as to why people often see Diety as a separate entity.

Many people are more confortable in dealing with the literal rather than the abstract, so religious text is often interpreted literally which can then turn the text into a how to manual with detailed absolutes. I think this may cause a sense of separation between the seeker and the author.

Some people simply need absolute guidance and to be able to hand the reins of control over to another. What better guide than Diety? If Spirit is viewed as internal as well as external, than control also must be internalized. Some may not be ready for this level of
introspection.

As to projecting human traits on G-d, I think this a very natural thing to do; it is often easier to understand that which one can relate to. For some, in order to relate there must be a common groud of identifiable traits. Take a Bible story for example; During the Exodus out of Egypt Moses would have had a much harder time getting the Hebrews to stand up and follow had he not given G-d some very human traits; loyalty, vengefulness, anger, approval... They needed to believe this idea of G-d in order to have faith they would be cared for.

I don't think there is anything wrong or contemptable about any of these reasons, or any of the many other reasons for this view of Diety. Each person relates in a way they can best identify with. *shrug*